CTF-Blice (WIP)

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Feralidragon
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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by Feralidragon » Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:42 pm

papercoffee wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:23 pm
What about you use the Unreal UEd2.2 ?
You can link your UT install in the ini of the Editor.
Could you elaborate a bit?

As far as I know, UEd2.2 works fine BSP-wise, but once the map has already custom UT actors (I am using a custom package of my own) put into it and such built for UT, isn't that somewhat incompatible with UEd2.2?
I never explored UEd2.2 that much, but I was always under the impression that what you could do with it for UT was fairly limited.

If that's not the case, and I can use it fully in the UT context without issues (load it from Unreal 227, but have it load the UT packages, actors and such), I can certainly give it another try and check if I can continue the map that way. :)

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:08 pm

Feralidragon wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:59 pm
Map officially canceled.
NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Image
It was so pretty.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
Smilies · viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by papercoffee » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:14 pm

Feralidragon wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:42 pm
papercoffee wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:23 pm
What about you use the Unreal UEd2.2 ?
You can link your UT install in the ini of the Editor.
Could you elaborate a bit?

As far as I know, UEd2.2 works fine BSP-wise, but once the map has already custom UT actors (I am using a custom package of my own) put into it and such built for UT, isn't that somewhat incompatible with UEd2.2?
I never explored UEd2.2 that much, but I was always under the impression that what you could do with it for UT was fairly limited.

If that's not the case, and I can use it fully in the UT context without issues (load it from Unreal 227, but have it load the UT packages, actors and such), I can certainly give it another try and check if I can continue the map that way. :)
I did this in the unreal.ini

Code: Select all

[Core.System]
PurgeCacheDays=0
SavePath=..\Save
CachePath=..\Cache
CacheExt=.uxx
UseCPU=0
Paths=..\System\*.u
Paths=..\Maps\*.unr
Paths=..\Maps\UPak\*.unr
Paths=..\Textures\*.utx
Paths=..\Sounds\*.uax
Paths=..\Music\*.umx
Paths=..\Meshes\*.usm
Paths=C:\Programme\UnrealTournament\System\*.u
Paths=C:\Programme\UnrealTournament\Maps\*.unr
Paths=C:\Programme\UnrealTournament\Textures\*.utx
Paths=C:\Programme\UnrealTournament\Sounds\*.uax
Paths=C:\Programme\UnrealTournament\Music\*.umx
Suppress=DevLoad
Suppress=DevSave
Suppress=DevNetTraffic
Suppress=DevGarbage
Suppress=DevKill
Suppress=DevReplace
Suppress=DevSound
Suppress=DevCompile
Suppress=DevBind
Suppress=DevBsp
Suppress=DevNet
Then you can open maps from UT in UEd 2.1 or 2.2
Me think if something special is Myleveled, then there is no problem to open this map in the Editor.
I use this very often to optimize the paths in UEd

Of course, don't use special actors from UEd2.2 ...they won't work in UT.

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by Loose Cannon » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:31 am

EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:08 pm
Feralidragon wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:59 pm
Map officially canceled.
NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Image
It was so pretty.
I agree Evil!! I was soooooooooooooooo looking forward to this map more than any I can remember!!

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by Feralidragon » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:37 am

It doesn't work for me:
nope.png
nope.png (4.47 KiB) Viewed 847 times
I stripped the map from pretty much everything but the basic common stuff: brushes and lights.
And UEd2.1 still complains about the same.

Since I was thinking in trying something else (a new simpler map for the contest or as bonus), which made me build today a simple gameplay concept to test it out, I opened that map in UEd2.1 and it worked.
So I don't really know what this map may have that UEd2.1 doesn't like, and I checked the actors list and everything is clean.

Also, the new map I just mentioned, won't happen either.
The gameplay was surprisingly fun, but UT just shits the bed at times with either crashing, HOMs or rendering glitches altogether, so that's another map I won't be making either.
On UEd2.1 on the other hand (Unreal 227), the same map plays flawlessly, exactly how I imagined it.

So, I am done wasting my time in a broken UEd in a more broken game.
Now that a patch is around the corner, I will wait it out and test the map again with the patched editor, and if it works, it works, if it doesn't, then it doesn't, it may eventually serve as a test case for anth and others to figure out.

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by papercoffee » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:16 am

hm? Something is wrong there... but what?

I can understand you.
Hopefully this new patch will also fix some problems with portals and bots... You know which map waits for its finishing ;)

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by EvilGrins » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:05 am

Feralidragon wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:37 am
I stripped the map from pretty much everything but the basic common stuff: brushes and lights.
I lost an MH edit I was doing for similar reasons, once. Nowadays I make sure the last functioning copy isn't the one I'm working on, so in case something goes wrong I still have that to try again.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
Image
medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
Smilies · viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by Dr.Flay » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:28 am

To get UT maps to open in Unreal and Unreal maps in UT, you need to make sure both have the ported missing files.
For example Unreal needs one of the ported Botpack.u
See viewtopic.php?f=59&t=5540 for a full description and links.

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by Feralidragon » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:54 pm

Dr.Flay wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:28 am
To get UT maps to open in Unreal and Unreal maps in UT, you need to make sure both have the ported missing files.
For example Unreal needs one of the ported Botpack.u
See viewtopic.php?f=59&t=5540 for a full description and links.
There may be some hope left after all. Thank you! :tu:
That actually worked, and I was able to open and rebuild the map in UEd2.1, especially since it appears that UEd2.1 no longer has the 65k node limit.

Having that said however, now there's a different kind of problem: UEd2.1 is always generating the same amount of nodes and not optimizing the BSP at all, no matter how I build it or the settings I apply (this honestly seems like a UEd2.1 bug), which leads to 2 main problems:

1. The node count stays over the 65k, instead of going down to the expected 45k-50k range post-optimization, which means I can no longer open it or play it in UT (at least in UEd2.0, where I tried).

2. The semi-solids now have occlusion bugs (disappearing surfaces): this only happens in UEd2.0 if you build the BSP in an unoptimized fashion (Build BSP button), however doing an optimized build fixes all of them (Build All button).
In UEd2.1 on the other hand, it doesn't matter how I build it (Build BSP or Build All), and it doesn't matter which values I apply in the BSP sliders, it always ends up building everything in the exact same way.

One thing I noticed, is that apparently UEd2.1 is trying to optimize first, and build afterwards, whereas UEd2.0 builds the BSP first, and optimizes it afterwards, so maybe the order of processes is switched leading to this bug, or maybe that was done on purpose and there's some other bug somewhere in the newer editor.

So... is this a known problem? Has it already been fixed in some way?

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by Dr.Flay » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:25 pm

This may be something to report to @Smirftsch but yeah maybe some of the Unreal 227 mappers have a solution.

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by Feralidragon » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:05 pm

Well, reported the problem here: https://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2 ... 1571322829

Let's see if there's any solution, or planned fix for it at least.

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by Feralidragon » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:25 pm

It seems I will be able to continue this map after all, thanks to a workaround suggested by Dots over at OldUnreal that actually works.
I am currently able to continue the map using the latest Unreal 227 editor with this workaround, and the map plays out in UT99 just fine (for the time being at least).

I am not sure if I will be able to make it into the 20AC pack (as a bonus map), but I am nearly done with the architecture, so if UEd doesn't screw me over again, I may be able to finish this thing very soon.
And again, even if I do finish this, don't expect much on the playability side, this is more of a small tech demo at this point.

As such, I have already made some progress, namely the underground corridors:

Image

Image

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by EvilGrins » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:29 am

Feralidragon wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:25 pm
It seems I will be able to continue this map after all
Yay!!!!
Image
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
Image
medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
Smilies · viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by Feralidragon » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:05 pm

I am finally at the point where I am working on the outdoors part of the map, starting with the tunnels to outside:

Image

If everything goes fine, what I have left to do BSP-wise is:
  • middle tunnel;
  • bridges from the underground corridors;
  • add details to the big walls between the bases;
  • add overall detail and fix any remaining BSP bugs.

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Re: CTF-Blice (WIP)

Post by Loose Cannon » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:20 pm

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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