My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

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R3plicant
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My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by R3plicant » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:03 pm

Ok folks,.. I'm so nervous, my heart's in my mouth - this is it, no more going back, no more edits, no more versions (except an SLV version if there's demand). Download link at the bottom. :flag5:

Here she is:

CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]


Image


I hope this map whets your appetites for a ruddy good CTF fragging sesh or several (hundred)! :mrgreen: :instagib1: :flag5: :flag4:

Just a quick note here to say thanks to Red-Fist and Higor for the initial bot-pathing effort, but it was really FraGnBraG who got the bot-pathing spot-on. Top marks, man! :highfive: Thank you! :) Also, thanks to all who put up with my rage-quits, anger/frustration and my REPEATEDLY editing the map.

IMPORTANT! Map download file has been changed as of 24th December 2018, be SURE to remove the map you may already have on your C:\UnrealTournament\Maps folder and replace with this one to avoid a Version Mismatch error.



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Last edited by R3plicant on Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:21 pm, edited 11 times in total.

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by papercoffee » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:17 am

Wrong naming of the map it should be "CTF-AMC-W007-II" ... but I let it slide this time.

Linked the thread in the Contest thread.

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by R3plicant » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:20 am

papercoffee wrote:Wrong naming of the map it should be "CTF-AMC-W007-II" ... but I let it slide this time.

Linked the thread in the Contest thread.
Oh, I'm sorry, I wanted to keep the [R3p] at the start of the name/title as with all my maps. Thanks, nice to know I made it in time. Couldn't have done it without the help with optimisation and pathing, though. :)

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by ExpEM » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:05 am

Bots are really broken unfortunately. Blue team bots often can't path out of the spawn area. Bots don't understand how to use the Kickers at all. Lovely build and design tho.

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by R3plicant » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:10 am

ExpEM wrote:Bots are really broken unfortunately. Blue team bots often can't path out of the spawn area. Bots don't understand how to use the Kickers at all. Lovely build and design tho.
Aye, bots aren't too smart, especially being unable to get out of the spawn halls. Higor, would you have a deeper look into these bots, please? It'd be so good if they were a real playing challenge. Thanks ExpEm for the compliment on the map itself. It's not the best map (according to the AMC competition results), but by god I've spent MANY hours working on it and it's about as popular as a sick nun offering rotten biscuits at a rock concert. Time and money well spent, :roll:,.. not.

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by UnrealGGecko » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:36 am

Sorry you feel like that, man. I enjoyed your map quite a lot. Best looking w00t map I've seen for sure. Heck you saw me playin it lol :D. Sure it has its problems but then again rare map has none. Hope it gets to a server soon.

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by OjitroC » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:02 am

Yes, it's a great looking map and fun for Players - not bot friendly though, which is the main issue. The kickers tend to send the bots too high with fatal consequences - I watched a game with bots for about 25 minutes and they (mainly the Red team) managed to get the flag on a few occasions but could not get back with it.

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by R3plicant » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:15 am

OjitroC wrote:Yes, it's a great looking map and fun for Players - not bot friendly though, which is the main issue. The kickers tend to send the bots too high with fatal consequences - I watched a game with bots for about 25 minutes and they (mainly the Red team) managed to get the flag on a few occasions but could not get back with it.
You're quite right, I noticed it too. I'm just pleased it wasn't me who did the bot-pathing, I'd have done a worse job. :roll:

You know, in all the time I ever was on a server with the original Wootabulous map being played, no one ever once complained about bot-pathing (or rather, the lack thereof) in it, no one.

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by Higor » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:29 am

Bot pathing has an annoying cap (aka: Engine limit) which prevents bots from searching paths too far away.
I moved the start area as close as I could (even reducing the size of the main box) and adding an ugly 'wall' to prevent visual glitches.

Due to the design of said box the red area is a bit closer to the play area so red bots have no problems, blue bots on the other side are right on the edge.
Sure, you can move the spawn area into the main box and build a huge 'SkyBox' cube around it... but that would probably bring even more visual glitches.
Or you could reduce the size of the main box yet gain...

One way to kill off visual glitches would be a warp zone and fully separating both chambers (not visually!), but you wouldn't be able to see players behind the glass online.
ImageImage
Image unreal://23.111.157.138:7777
Image unreal://46.228.199.205:7788

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by OjitroC » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:43 pm

It's more the bots' difficulty in usng the kickers that I see as the major issue - though having said that, I've played several more games with bots and they have managed to capture the opposing flag on occasions. The other thing is the bots aren't aware that the central feature in the spawn rooms is going to incinerate them and that happened fairly frequently.

Whatever, the map is a fun one to play and, moreover, is impressive visually.

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by R3plicant » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:31 am

OjitroC wrote:It's more the bots' difficulty in usng the kickers that I see as the major issue - though having said that, I've played several more games with bots and they have managed to capture the opposing flag on occasions. The other thing is the bots aren't aware that the central feature in the spawn rooms is going to incinerate them and that happened fairly frequently.

Whatever, the map is a fun one to play and, moreover, is impressive visually.
I'm not at all well-versed in bot-pathing but I spent all of today TRYING to get the bots to navigate the map, but many issues proved far too much for me to endure. I was no closer to finishing the pathing at the end of the day than I was when I started!!

1). Bots 'loiter' around the minigun, middle base and in-between. They pretty much (90% of the time) refuse to go anywhere else.
2). Bots EAGERLY suicide themselves off the edge of the front of the bases, (TRYING to 'navigate' a path that's MEANT to be incoming, not outgoing). *Yes, I set to bOneWayPath in the 2 lift exits and the 1 lift center for said path. Problem is, how does the bot know which way AND direction to use the path? ----> or <----- ? Retarded shit.
3). Bots see each other across the map and try to kill at long range but (not completely) ignore the jump-pads.
4). Bots spend all their time getting weapons and ammo and repeatedly ignore going to the enemy bases and the middle and side platforms. If they DO get to the middle platform, they just turn around and head straight back to their base.
5). The map needs very few path nodes, and in fact relies more on lift exits, lift centres, jump-spots, transloc starts and transloc dest actors. Alternate paths may be useful in some maps but how to set them up to aid the flow,... I have NO idea. I looked online for help, guides, tutorials etc to no avail', I found some but none mentioned how to set them up or what the actor properties specifically did or how to actually enter variables or which fields to enter them into or how to specify the direction of a path etc etc.
6). I'm TIRED, annoyed, frustrated and seriously pissed off with editing this fucking map. I NEVER liked bot-pathing because it's RIDICULOUSLY retarded and moronic in Unrealed 2.0. For example, why can't kickers give their info to the bot to tell it how hard, how high and which direction it needs to be kicked instead of having to use 2 fucking lift exits and a lift centre? Also, what about the fact that if there's BSP, why can't bots just know it's solid ground and walk across it, especially if there are adjacent walls and ledges etc? If there's a slope, walk up/down it if it continues onto flat/level ground? Also, why didn't the original coders think of all this when they were coding instead of,. "send bot in that direction because there's something useful over there",. ? Retarded design. ANOTHER also, why isn't this obvious,. if something useful is out of range, use whatever method of manoeuvring (jump boots, transloc', impact jump etc) to try to get to it given how far away it is? If these coders were so clever, why couldn't they do it right? I can't code for shit but they're supposed to have been the best at what they did.
7). There are tutorials for MOST aspects of mapping for UT99, but there are almost NONE for advanced bot-pathing. Of those that DO exist, they're pretty basic and far from technical and in-depth or accurate.
8). I built maps for the visuals, NOT the pathing. I fucking H.A.T.E pathing!! :evil: :evil: :evil: FUCK THE PATHING!! IT'S RETARDED as FUCK!!


Yes, that's a rage quit. Fuck it. NO MORE mapping. You want pathing in my map,.. YOU do it. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: I'M THROUGH with unreal fucking editor!

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by UnrealGGecko » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:03 am

Dumb question but did you use these, per chance?
http://www.extremew00t.com/jumppad_tutorial.htm

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by FraGnBraG » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:10 am

Check your PM - i sent you a fixed map using swjumpads - it works awesomely

Feel free to contact me if you want anything explained :)

Also, you will want to delete all those old named pathnodes and some altpaths - This map doesn't need that stuff. I removed them from the path network but
left them in the map and they're sitting in the top of the map far far away doing nothing. The pathing was shit simple in the map - the old style kicker is a dead
thing of the past. Maps with the unreal-wiki setup kickers (prior to swjumpad) are often full of bouncing or suicide bots - except my maps of course :P Seriously,
this is a woot map. And it is a decent woot map now that BOTs will give you a game and CAP.

You can still tweak things, it is by no means perfect. I only tested with 3-4-7 bot masterfuls.

Check this out:
3 vs 3 masterfuls - no suicides!
It was 2 NIL for RED until I started getting creative with the jumping and aerial kills!! as you do in WOOT
AWESOME-WOOT-99.jpg
Whether it is released depends on R3plicant - he is a bit fed up with all this.

Hope he does a release :rock:
Cheers

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by smeerkat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:41 pm

As promised, here is my map review on YouTube:

Sorry about the video quality, I'm not sure how to make it better. (I'm using Open Broadcaster)

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Re: My AMC entry: CTF-[R3P]-W007-II-[AMC]

Post by R3plicant » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:02 am

smeerkat wrote:As promised, here is my map review on YouTube:

Sorry about the video quality, I'm not sure how to make it better. (I'm using Open Broadcaster)
Wow,. :) Smeerkat - nice review, thank you!. :) I've left a comment on it. Thanks for your thoughts and feedback! :thuup: My views/opinions on it can be read on the video in the comments section. :tu:
For what it's worth here, if your rig can handle it, you should try the: Enhanced OpenGL renderer for UT99. Also, if your rig can run it, the Nvidia Geforce Experience software for recording gameplay or maybe there's an AMD equivalent; that should give better results. The brightness you had ALMOST right in the video, maybe one notch higher, but as it is, it's very nice; rich and colourful - just how I intended (almost). :agree1:

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