CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA 2)

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CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA 2)

Postby spookyrockjaw » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:32 am

This is a CTF map with a outdoor, canyon theme. I think its best suited for 8-12 players. Its a work in progress. It will probably be a few weeks before I get around to finishing it so in the meantime I want to release this beta version. I hope some folks will download it and give it a try. The bots work fairly well. They cap the flag and use different routes to traverse the map. There may be still be some problem areas though. I know they don't really go for the powerups yet.

This is going to be my first finished level. I had to scrap it and restart it from scratch a couple times to get the basic build right. So far I'm really happy with it but I still want to finesse the layout and the visuals. Feedback is appreciated!

UPDATE
Download link updated to BETA 2. Just a few changes:
-Botpathing has been completely redone. Bots now pickup the shield belt (often) and the big keg o' health (occasionally). Fixed a couple spots where they were getting stuck.
-Small changes to the cliff slide down to the keg o' health to improve botpathing.
-Changes to weapon and item placement.
-Fixed a couple misaligned brushes.
-Added a killzone at the top of the map. This is a temporary measure while I work on remodeling the top area of the map.

To-do list for final release:
-Remodel the cliff walls around the top of the map to look more natural. They will also be taller to accommodate low gravity play while keeping the players from going out of bounds.
-More brushwork on the bases, especially the top area.
-Minor visual details. Fix water flow direction. Tweak lighting. Add fire sconces. If someone can tell me how to use a smoke generator I would add some misty fog at the bottom of the waterfall.

DOWNLOAD LINK - BETA 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zq315fm73u511 ... 2.unr?dl=0

Thanks for playing!

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Last edited by spookyrockjaw on Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:48 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Try my beta map! CTF-Rio Na Pali

Postby Loose Cannon » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:56 am

Nice job Spooky. I enjoyed the map. I thought the wooden bridges at the top are BEAUTIFUL!! I liked the layout and theme. Only thing is to work on is the skybox as you can see the "cube-shape" of the sky. I like how you have a pathway behind the waterfall...pretty cool! Lots of nice ways to get to the flag bases!
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby UnrealGGecko » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:51 pm

Lovin' the layout. Many way to get to and from each base and it's easy to get out of the water. The bases them-selves could use a few extra brushes or decorations as they feel very basic right now, and maybe add some supports for the bridges? And that waterfall maybe needs something a bit more like a smoke generator?

Yeah basically some visual complaints but otherwise quite fun. Keeper for sure. :rock:
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby makemeunreal » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:17 pm

THAT'S MY KIND OF A MAP!

Looks sweet! Will give some feedback as soon as I tried it with my clan!
Thanks for your work amigo. :D
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby spookyrockjaw » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:38 pm

Loose Cannon wrote:Nice job Spooky. I enjoyed the map. I thought the wooden bridges at the top are BEAUTIFUL!! I liked the layout and theme. Only thing is to work on is the skybox as you can see the "cube-shape" of the sky. I like how you have a pathway behind the waterfall...pretty cool! Lots of nice ways to get to the flag bases!


UnrealGGecko wrote:Lovin' the layout. Many way to get to and from each base and it's easy to get out of the water. The bases them-selves could use a few extra brushes or decorations as they feel very basic right now, and maybe add some supports for the bridges? And that waterfall maybe needs something a bit more like a smoke generator?

Yeah basically some visual complaints but otherwise quite fun. Keeper for sure. :rock:


Thanks for trying it! I want it to be visually on par with the official Epic maps so I'm going to keep working on the details. I will work on the skybox as well as adding more detail to the bases. If anyone can give me tips on how to make the bottom of my waterfall smoky or misty that would be cool. Is there some kind of emitter actor?

Other priorities are fixing the botpathing. I know there are a couple places where the bots can get stuck. Also it is probably possible to escape the level via translocator so I will fix that. Does anyone have any opinion on the sniper rifles being near the center of the map as opposed to at the bases? I wasn't totally decided on that. I wanted to make the top of the waterfall sort of a forward-sniping position but I need to work on getting the bots up there more often. They tend to take other routes.

Is there a good way to encourage the bots jump off a ledge if I want them to jump down to a lower area?
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby sektor2111 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:33 pm

spookyrockjaw wrote:This is going to be my first finished level. I had to scrap it and restart it from scratch a couple times to get the basic build right. So far I'm really happy with it but I still want to finesse the layout and the visuals. Feedback is appreciated!

You know your design wills. Perhaps some... actors are not that useful, speaking about Bots and...
spookyrockjaw wrote:Is there a good way to encourage the bots jump off a ledge if I want them to jump down to a lower area?

which is not hard...
Point number 1 - FORGET SPACES if you want to see your map On-Line somewhere. Unreal URLs with Spaces are not that welcomed. You can use underline or Nothing, just Caps.
For pathing, you need more practice and understanding that aerial NODES placement = BORKS, not valid routes. Such points cannot be visited using WALKING so are just useless.
Let's see this...
Disagree.PNG
I'm entirely disagree with these and let me explain what are those "blue lines". In image at left as example there is PathNode53 which apparently it's connected with two nodes around. This is half true, there are paths starting from this node to those two, number 17 (at ledge) and number 61 (in water). From said points as a back way, there are zero paths because NOBODY will camp taking PathNode53 and reaching at it using walking, it's completely with no purpose, an end line unreachable.
For making a one-way route - making bots to jump down, this node could be a LiftExit linked in combo with other two points from upper area:
- LiftExit - upper
- TranslocDest - around vials or whatever
- LiftExit- replacing this Node 53. And all these might have a virtual lift declared as LiftTag (a random name) for all 3 points. Using TranslocDest because this is CTF after all.
Look what are saying paths:
Code: Select all
Specs: PathNode53 - Paths[0]=937 Start=PathNode53 End=PathNode61 RFlags=Jump Swim Walk =13 Dist=936
Connected: PathNode53 to PathNode61.
NoReachFrom: PathNode53 to point 0 which means InventorySpot418
oooooooooooooooo: oooooooooooooooo
Specs: PathNode53 - Paths[1]=935 Start=PathNode53 End=PathNode17 RFlags=Jump Walk =9 Dist=528
Connected: PathNode53 to PathNode17.
...
Specs: +++++
Specs: No NavigationPoint heads to PathNode53. If a route passes through, if won't be usable.
In exchange such a node has a lot of Unreachable points defined taking space for no purpose.

Those two and similar points.
tooclose.PNG
Are pretty much wrong, these are exactly those spots causing loops and Bot acting as moron. You don't need this way. KEEP at least 50 UU between any item and NavigationPoint or between two NavigationPoint actors.
First time I thought that map has a balance but AlternatePath1 has no purpose - check yourself - it's in the void.
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby spookyrockjaw » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:06 am

I'm entirely disagree with these and let me explain what are those "blue lines". In image at left as example there is PathNode53 which apparently it's connected with two nodes around. This is half true, there are paths starting from this node to those two, number 17 (at ledge) and number 61 (in water). From said points as a back way, there are zero paths because NOBODY will camp taking PathNode53 and reaching at it using walking, it's completely with no purpose, an end line unreachable.


Ok, noob question. The blue lines represent pathnode connections? I don't see them in my editor. How can I turn on the lines in UnrealEd so I can see the path connections?

Everything you said I will take into consideration as I rework the pathing. Thanks for your feedback!

EDIT: Ok, figured this out. View > Show Paths
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby sektor2111 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:15 pm

Okay, pathing problem seems an auxiliary problem, for empty servers this is not an issue and neither the next thing.
Some skilled players or whatever such category can use Translocator/TeamBoost and moving entire game in top of map. That area is accessible having chances to move the battle over there. Nah, that area has no purpose... even if carrier is helped to reach there it might be happy to reach in other base very easy on a solid ground, visuals are borked because of FakeBackDrop used but area it's usable as an escape.

Reading back...
Sniper spots should have paths and... DefencePoint actors according to some team. The question is: Which team (miss-balancing game) ? Two teams heading in spot will cause a small DM in area and you won't see too much sniping task... In a custom CTF perhaps Bot is taking a defending spot visible to flag not one in the wild where player can run out of sight - TOP AREA HERE. Flag it's the main subject in CTF not sniping around - it's a matter of time until player can figure how to evade from sniper range. As a sample, recall old CTF-Face where player is escalating buildings in the back using translocator and taking sniper-rifle before to be noticed that easy and reaching in base without to trigger snipers - original Epic author has forgot probably about translocator while was doing that one-way triggering in one of those bases. In one of my lousy CTF maps I did such multiple translocation spots for Bots - just a cheap copy of player in order to balance a bit these CTF specific habits practiced in human format.
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby spookyrockjaw » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:37 pm

Okay, pathing problem seems an auxiliary problem, for empty servers this is not an issue and neither the next thing.
Some skilled players or whatever such category can use Translocator/TeamBoost and moving entire game in top of map. That area is accessible having chances to move the battle over there. Nah, that area has no purpose... even if carrier is helped to reach there it might be happy to reach in other base very easy on a solid ground, visuals are borked because of FakeBackDrop used but area it's usable as an escape.


I'm well aware of this. The entire area above the map will be completely blocked from access in the final version.

As for the sniping spots. I will remove the forward most camping positions. I appreciate your detailed comments regarding pathing. I'm almost finished redoing the botpathing for the entire map and its working much better.
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:49 am

spookyrockjaw wrote:I'm well aware of this. The entire area above the map will be completely blocked from access in the final version.

As a matter of fact. Look here:
NoCube.png
Actually in this picture entire cube from top is removed and I don't see any problem - that room makes no sense. To not mention the light which was offering an advantage toward visibility to one team is gone balancing visibility for both teams. It is playable very well, my MBots have no problems at hunting enemy jumping down (there are paths all over the place), high nodes in ramps are not a problem because they are lowered and... this CTFGame is "encouraging" them to use Translocator in various cases. In this stage map looks perfect for a CTF and team-monsters dropped around. I was thinking to setup more paths party making them to translocate from a ledge to another when it's needed... but maybe they will go too strong and too smart being frustrating.
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby spookyrockjaw » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:38 pm

Actually in this picture entire cube from top is removed and I don't see any problem - that room makes no sense. To not mention the light which was offering an advantage toward visibility to one team is gone balancing visibility for both teams.


The lighting and overall aesthetics are important to me though which is why the top cube will stay. I can easily block it off to prevent players from getting up there. Sorry but that screenshot you posted looks bad.

I've played the map quite a bit and to me the team advantage from the asymmetrical lighting is incredibly marginal. Still, I will work on balancing the lighting out a bit. My plan was to add some fire scones around each base that would balance out the visibility on each side. But I will also adjust the position of the virtual sunlight to be more balanced.

EDIT: I've just looked at the map again in game. I really think the asymmetrical sun lighting is a non-issue. The blue side is illuminated with purple ambient lighting in the "dark" areas. I never had any trouble spotting enemies even in the shadows as the luminance is still decently bright. Compared to some of the wildly asymmetrical CTF maps that shipped with the game (Command, Eternal Caves, November) I think it is fairly insignificant. Plus, as I said, I'm planning to add some additional light sources in the map that will balance things out a little.
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:00 pm

spookyrockjaw wrote:The lighting and overall aesthetics are important to me though which is why the top cube will stay. I can easily block it off to prevent players from getting up there. Sorry but that screenshot you posted looks bad.
Agree, but here it's a brightness problem, else for me it's not really disturbing. In another contest maybe some plants are welcomed here and there. Lightning or not, those rocks do looks a bit naked.
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby spookyrockjaw » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:05 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
spookyrockjaw wrote:The lighting and overall aesthetics are important to me though which is why the top cube will stay. I can easily block it off to prevent players from getting up there. Sorry but that screenshot you posted looks bad.
Agree, but here it's a brightness problem, else for me it's not really disturbing. In another contest maybe some plants are welcomed here and there. Lightning or not, those rocks do looks a bit naked.


I'm actually redesigning the cliff walls around the top of the map to look more irregular and natural. They will be slanted and vary in height. Wait till you see the next version. :tu:
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby papercoffee » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:55 pm

@spookyrockjaw
Can you give me a top view, so I can see the layout?
Didn't test the map... but I like canyons as map theme myself. :mrgreen:
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Re: CTF-Rio Na Pali (BETA)

Postby spookyrockjaw » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:52 am

papercoffee wrote:@spookyrockjaw
Can you give me a top view, so I can see the layout?
Didn't test the map... but I like canyons as map theme myself. :mrgreen:


Here you go.

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