FNB 20AC mapping stuff

[FraGnBraG]

Hiya
I am preparing graphics for my project - I need a truckload so I start there ...
Right off the bat I have this nagging issue and wonder if anyone has any suggestions?
I'll post my OpenGL render settings (once I find them)

Note these screenies all taken from the same spot in the map, looking at the skybox.
EDIT - I should point out the texture is 1024x1024 palleted 256 color, as required. "No smooth" is off on all examples because it causes horrible blurring!

1. from Editor 3d ViewPort (using Software rendering) *** the best quality imo - notice sky blend is smooth, not lines, and some writing is almost readable!!

2. from in-game (using OpenGL renderer) not good quality

3. from in-game (using stock D3D renderer) much worse quality

4. from in-game (using D3D-9 renderer) this one is 4:3 - but better quality than OpenGL, atm

I'd really like to stick with OpenGL, just somehow improve the graphic quality

Any comments greatly appreciated.
Thanks fnb

[[rev]rato.skt]

it was very good!

[Dr.Flay]

are you using the older renderers or the ones from OldUnreal ?

[Chamberly]

Big Dipper?

[Tyr]

Is the Skybox Cube also 1024*1024*1024?

I used a big Skybox in my maps for the 3072 contest and had no issues regarding display quality.

[FraGnBraG]

are you using the older renderers or the ones from OldUnreal ?

@dr.flay - hmm... I should look into that (OldUnreal)

@tyr - so it's actually a 1024 x 2048 image wrapped into a cylinder that is 1024 high x 512 radius x 16 sides.
it has just one "white" light sufficiently bright to illuminate all surfaces with no color bias from exact center,
and surface has "smoothing" turned OFF. I have experimented with pretty much all properties that could affect
"quality" and these had NO noticeable effect. I have also worked with very large textures in ut99 in several of
my maps and also have successfully used this technique in the past and it is baffling me.

I did change my graphics adapter a while ago - i think this one is a 970... maybe the renderer(s) in ut are
borking due to newer nividea drivers... hmm. I wonder if the card settings are overriding/affecting ut99 opengl
settings somehow...

Notice the d3d9 image looks "almost" as good as software rendering, even though i didn't set ut99 to the normal
widescreen (1920 x 1080) resolution when testing. I think it was just 640 x 480 actually.

Oh well - I'll look at drivers next...

@[rev]rato.skt - ty .. hopefully i can get this to look decent... having a nice skybox inspires me when building a map

@Chamberly - i think that must be tounge-in-cheek for "take a dip in the ocean" and the ocean is "big"... i'm still playing
the game so now I'll be looking for that out the windows, lol!

Cheers

EDIT - Here is my OpenGL settings - version is utglr37
Have not changed this in years...

Code: Select all

[OpenGLDrv.OpenGLRenderDevice]
Translucency=True
VolumetricLighting=True
ShinySurfaces=True
Coronas=True
HighDetailActors=True
DetailTextures=True
TruFormMinVertices=0
TruFormTessellation=3
UseTruForm=False
AAFilterHint=0
NumAASamples=0
UseAA=False
RequestHighResolutionZ=True
MaskedTextureHack=True
FrameRateLimit=0
SwapInterval=-1
UseVertexProgram=False
UseCVA=False
UseMultiDrawArrays=False
TexDXT1ToDXT3=False
DynamicTexIdRecycleLevel=100
CacheStaticMaps=False
UseTexPool=True
UseTexIdPool=True
UseSSE=2
BufferClippedActorTris=True
SinglePassDetail=False
ColorizeDetailTextures=False
DetailClipping=False
UseDetailAlpha=True
RefreshRate=0
MaxTMUnits=0
NoFiltering=False
MaxAnisotropy=16
UseTNT=False
Use16BitTextures=False
UseS3TC=False
UseAlphaPalette=False
AutoGenerateMipmaps=False
UseTrilinear=False
UsePrecache=False
AlwaysMipmap=False
ShareLists=False
UsePalette=False
UseMultiTexture=True
UseBGRATextures=True
UseZTrick=False
MaxLogTextureSize=8
MinLogTextureSize=0
MaxLogVOverU=8
MaxLogUOverV=8
OneXBlending=False
GammaCorrectScreenshots=False
GammaOffsetBlue=0.000000
GammaOffsetGreen=0.000000
GammaOffsetRed=0.000000
GammaOffset=0.000000
LODBias=0.000000
DescFlags=0
Description=

FURTHER Example:
CTF Face Palm in Editor (Software Rendering) v.s In-Game (openGL).
Notice how fuzzy it is in OpenGL. I do not remember it looking this bad back when it was released.
I'm thinking newer GPU does not like the UT99 OpenGL renderers. I might have to switch to D3D!!!

Can someone check how this looks on their own system? Do the mountains look clear for you in-game? or fuzzy?

[Acoma]

Here is what my facepalm skybox looks like (looks like your editor example pretty much)

using oldunreal's newest opengl driver from here

my guess is that it's either built into the driver or it's one of the following preferences under renderer:
AlwaysMipMap (could be mipmapping distant textures and skies)
AutoGenerateMipMaps (ditto)
MaxAnisotropy (could give same effect as mipmapping)
TexDX1ToDX3 (could be forcing higher quality textures to be compressed versions)
Use16bitTextures (obvious this should be false)
UseMultiTexture (not too sure what this does tbh)
UseS3TC (i use s3tc textures but i don't think your textures are s3tc right?)
UseSSE (this could be what enables higher quality texture filtering)
UseSSE2 (ditto)
UseTexldPool (could help)
UseTexPool (ditto)
UseTrilinear (this could also be causing texture compression or bad filtering akin to mipmaps or anisotropy)

you can view these settings by typing 'preferences' into the console, replace the driver first though

[FraGnBraG]

Thank you Acoma!!! That's fixed it

Now I'm one happy mapper! I can get rolling on this - next up will be a basthescape mover then the journey into watery hell begins!!!!

And you Acoma - will get your own secret room

So here's the way it looks now -

Cheers

[FraGnBraG]

Well haven't really had much time lately for this - 20AC thing - but when i get a spell i go a bit crazy. This started life when the contest did, although i started building stuff and textures etc, in other map spaces. The iconic Lighthouse, a bit lacking in ut99, but still standing although prone to holes What came after was a battle of wills against the sad shtty little editor and various (not too far fetched) ideas - with the miserable thing giving me a good beat-down on TWO occasions. Seriously after about 500 crashes in a row i just toss it and play a "real" game that doesn't gpf every 10 clicks! Well, then it's usually delete delete delete until the stupid thing builds but by then the wind is out of my sails (pssst we should doing all this in UT4, not ut99).

I digress. okay, i got this (almost didn't) but now i have to do sound, lighting and finish alignments etc. If it starts complaining then delete delete until it works (cause i don't care too much any more). I much prefer a 512k contest, cause no gpfs ever!!!!!

Multi-skyboxes are funny in the editor

[EvilGrins]

It looks like some James Bond villain's lair.

[Red_Fist]

I just think you need to be more wise in creating brushes that will look the same but less nodes.

Like that curved cylinder hallway, I see piled up lines at each section.

But I never made such massive things.
Use textures to make things look complex rather than making the brushes have an edge or sides, so the texture will make it look complex.

Then you have that terrain , make a flat surface and deintersect the mound or rock brush, but keep the brush and just plop on the top right where the brush you intersected but one or two units above the flat brush, or maybe put it on the surface without deintersecting it again.

I think you could reduce the polys by half.

[FraGnBraG]

hmm... brushes are complex yes, but nothing all that crazy, imo - everything's under control now - Thankfully
I am thinking DOM now, rather than CTF ... Then I worry only about "one side", rather than having to duplicate a 2500 brush base
Same thing happened with simplex back in 2006, iirc. DM/DOM rather than CTF.
I think i prefer the contests with brush restrictions cause then you have to be creative with limits. Anyways.
Terrain suggestion good - thanks - will look at that, next
Dunno about you, I'm finding the editor is increasingly unstable on my windows 10 system. Crashes a lot more now, mainly
when in dynamic viewports, like lighting adjustments. Vertex/origins not always snapping to grid properly. extremely annoying
and counter productive especially when working with 3000+ brushes. I've had to resort to hiding groups/sections most of the
time and build a bit at a time - which i never had to do in the past. All to avoid GPFs.
Some functionality in UT99 seems broken now, as well - like in-game brightness (F11 key) no effect any longer. very annoying
I'm beyond messing around with drivers, for this old game anyways.
So I'll see about that terrain...
Cheers

[Red_Fist]

How about blaming windows 10 instead of what we know worked.

Such crap IS win 10, not us or our old programs.

[FraGnBraG]

It seems to me that "Windows 10 era" has not been playing too Nice with my GPU and UT99 graphics drivers - OpenGL becomes unstable at times.
No "silver bullet" definitive fixes either. While D3D9 seems to function in a more stable manner, it definitely does not look as good as OpenGL. Especially translucency and coronas. UT99 D3d colour often looks washed out, or too dark.

Anyways, OpenGL is currently working again for me, for what is really "unknown" reasons.

I ended up fixing the annoying "mouse pointer stuck + spinning Vortex-Rikers spawn" by opening another program (like notepad) before running ut99, then whenever the mouse gets stuck, simply open "alt-tab" popup and choose notepad, click in it, then alt-tab back to ut99 and problem is fixed - discovered by just trial and error hacking around when nothing else worked. No other game I currently have behaves this way.

As for the map, looking very fragnbrag these days (4000+ brushes, 5000 lights, 60-70% custom textures) after a bit of a ued2 battle got it all optimized. Plays pretty good too with teams of 8 players. Still tweaking and adjusting, adding audio, plants and various theme touches. Dunno about final music.

No screen shots right now, since I'd like it to be a surprise for players when they see it for the first time.
Might do a beta, or maybe not bother with that since this map is likely too big/fat for a server.

Thanks for the input Red_Fist
Cheers

[FraGnBraG]

I'll put a quick update here, since this is a related thread... Not really a 20-AC map any more but wth

Still WIP (mostly lighting tweaks, and adding decrorations, etc. Sounds and audio will be last - gameplay will be completed before I add sounds).

Map is done enough to start play-testing ... Runs around 57-60 fps actually, at 4600+ brushes this CTF runs like hot snot with 16 players.

One of the routes even takes you outside for a swim. Bots will swim after you, lol! pssst! A "player only" surprise has been included

I've got a few bsp/csg issues remaining, but in general managed to stick to the 400 (or less) polys max goal in most of the map playspace.

I think I might BETA the map after all. Possibly this weekend or next week. Right now deciding some things - like removing railings, etc.

Here a couple of match results. Tough matches.

Cheers