DM-Castellum Final

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McFrag
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DM-Castellum Final

Post by McFrag » Mon May 11, 2020 11:29 pm

Hello All,

I've been working on a new map recently and I believe it reached a level of maturity to call it a Beta and to ask for feedback.
If you happen to play it and if you find bugs, or if you can provide useful information about how to improve it, I would really appreciate it!

Download (UPDATE to Final Version):
https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... f6d40.html

Behind the scenes:
This is a Deathmatch map for Unreal Tournament 99. This map was designed,
created and released in 2020. It is partially based on my old Rocket Arena
map RA-Hyperstriatum.

Spending the effort to create a map for an over 20 year old game from 1999
in 2020 sounds like a really big waste of human time and computation power.
Or in other words: Like an unbelievable stupid idea. Maybe that is what
attracted me doing it. Or it was the blowingly fast build process of maps on
modern computers. Or it was the Corona lockdown which forced me in social
isolation. Or it was simply UnrealGGecko asking me for permission to edit an
old map of mine (granted!) which in turn made me edit it myself and then
ended up with this map. Or it was simply the fact that I do not know how to
map for modern games, and that I also do not even own a computer system that
would be capable to run modern games. Maybe I just did it because I (still)
can and because it was fun doing it.
Besides UT99 is still a really cool and fun game to play and when I look at
the populated servers still hosting it, I can see that I’m not the only one
who still loves this old game.

If you are still love playing UT99 this map is for you! But you’ll need at
least an 10 year old computer system in order to run it smoothly as I did
not care about poly counts or such things at all :D

The ideal player count I believe is 4. But it also works with 3 or 5. However
beginning with 5 things start to get crazy as the map is very open. Also the
weapon selection is limited and ammo is rare. Theoretically it also works as
1 on 1, but you’ll need some patience spotting your opponent.

The setting plays in a Nali temple which was first conquered and later
overbuild by the Skaarj. Much later it was slightly expanded and opened to
the surface by humans to host Unreal Tournament games!

No Nali were harmed in the making of this map. All Nali displayed in it are
professional stuntnali and were offering their services voluntarily
at a fair wage and equal payment for all genders.
Last edited by McFrag on Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:24 am, edited 9 times in total.

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EvilGrins
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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by EvilGrins » Tue May 12, 2020 12:25 am

Nali is both singular and plural, it's like sheep.
Image
How's the bot-pathing?
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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OjitroC
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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by OjitroC » Tue May 12, 2020 12:26 am

That's pretty cool - I like the layout, the textures and the overall ambiance in particular. I only played it for a short while but the gameplay seems OK to me (though I am no expert on the placing of items for DM gameplay).

I did notice that the lifts stayed at their destination for a very short time - too short I think - and there appeared to be no way to call them back up.

There are a few red paths that you may want to check.
Sektor's MapGarbage tool wrote:VoidCheck: --- Void placement report ---
VoidCheck: Light11 looks placed into void.

ZoningChecker: ZoneInfo6 and ZoneInfo4 share the same zone

ItemLocator: flakammo0 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: flakammo1 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: ripper0 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: BladeHopper0 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: BladeHopper1 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: MedBox2 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: MedBox3 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: RocketPack2 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: RocketPack3 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: MedBox0 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: MedBox1 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: ThighPads0 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: HealthVial20 trying to ajust.
ItemLocator: Items checked ! 13 items have been adjusted a bit, which means 40% of map's items. [This means you may need to check the precise placement of these items and check that they have InventorySpots]

AmmoFall: 4 ammo actors won't have physics falling. [Ammo placed in map in some adjusted higher spot and which are falling due to their properties are adjusted to stay in spot as in design requests without to fall.]

McFrag
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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by McFrag » Tue May 12, 2020 6:00 am

EvilGrins wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 12:25 am
Nali is both singular and plural, it's like sheep.
Image
How's the bot-pathing?
EvilGrins drew first blood!
Thanks!

@OjitroC: Thank you as well, I'll have a look at the items and the red paths.
For the elevators the concept was to use them upwards only and to make playes jump down the platforms, so that there is a constant z-achis movement. But maybe I should still offer the buttons for the two high elevators at the end of the map, just to give players an option.

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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by EvilGrins » Tue May 12, 2020 9:46 am

McFrag wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 6:00 am
EvilGrins drew first blood!
Speaking of...
· Map is arena styled, allowing for close quarters combat and not being too close as to be stifling... there's some good open areas in there.
· Multiple levels allowing for multi-angled combat, gotta keep your eyes open.
· Bots use the entire space well, didn't see any significant hang-ups anywhere.
· The lack of music was disappointing, anytime I opened up a menu to check something that triggered UT's default music which didn't suit the space at all.
· Liked the lighting and color of the map, varying on different levels and areas.

This is a good map.
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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OjitroC
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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by OjitroC » Tue May 12, 2020 10:42 am

McFrag wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 6:00 am
For the elevators the concept was to use them upwards only and to make playes jump down the platforms, so that there is a constant z-achis movement. But maybe I should still offer the buttons for the two high elevators at the end of the map, just to give players an option.
I did wonder if it was the intention that players should jump down to the lower levels - so if that's central to the way you want players to use the map then it's obviously up to you whether to alter that or not. To me the more important thing is having the lifts stay at their destination for a few seconds more than now.

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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by McFrag » Tue May 12, 2020 3:26 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:42 am
McFrag wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 6:00 am
For the elevators the concept was to use them upwards only and to make playes jump down the platforms, so that there is a constant z-achis movement. But maybe I should still offer the buttons for the two high elevators at the end of the map, just to give players an option.
I did wonder if it was the intention that players should jump down to the lower levels - so if that's central to the way you want players to use the map then it's obviously up to you whether to alter that or not. To me the more important thing is having the lifts stay at their destination for a few seconds more than now.
I'll have a look at the elevators!
One question, what is the Sektor's MapGarbage tool and where can I get it? I googled it but could not find it.
Thanks!

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OjitroC
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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by OjitroC » Tue May 12, 2020 3:59 pm

McFrag wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 3:26 pm
One question, what is the Sektor's MapGarbage tool and where can I get it? I googled it but could not find it.
Thanks!
The latest version is in this post viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13855&p=119249#p119249 - in the second link there - a very useful tool for mappers to check their 'stuff'. There are earlier versions on this forum as well somewhere. The download of the new version contains an updated explanatory pdf which will telll you how to install and use it.

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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by sektor2111 » Tue May 12, 2020 11:07 pm

That's what I considered as good for mapping/checking, If you want more simple support in MapGarbage I'll be glad to drop some requirements which have been escaping me...

For Bot stage. What everyone should know is RED paths are not EVIL, are just restrictive. Editor is probing spots with his tester. When tester must be resized or Map has already paths which Tester cannot follow they are RED. So RED doesn't means that are heavy, are just not for Scout, a monster capable to fly can track aerial nodes if are linked with no single problem, Scout is like a rock in air, is falling cannot have access and then... is RED. The same as for Bot spots 17×39 collision, Scout is 50×52 won't move there before being resized.

Why we don't really always want these Reds ? Because in certain angles with items, Bot gets confused hitting wall due a false path done to InventorySpot mapped by Scout and moved away over item - there in such case perhaps should not be a path... Some stock map which I have to recall has exactly this kind of problem with a HealthVial Unreachable but we do have InventorySpot marking it reachable... As result, in that time I wrote a fix in my private DM - moving items under their InventorySpot, if Bot moves to NavigationPoint, definitely will capture item too and a lot of bugs were... gone.

What does MapGarbage here ? Is preparing some "trash" before manual pathing. Option bPreNavigAddHck - does a resize of Scout at Bot's Size resulting InventorySpots closer to items and PathNodes can be placed even in smaller spots having chances to be connected at ledges not like in default stage.
The rest is post-pathing CleanUp - deleting bytes which have no use...

Amnesia:
If you want BLUE paths even in Rat holes - see PathsLinker Builder working in UGold and using newer capabilities from there.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13855#p119249
Check Red path with Garbage Lord, record index, and modify reachSpec with that index using PathsLinker 70 × 100 should generate a BLUE path. However, even if you have a BLUE path, if that one is badly angled around a ledge heading to some column/wall Bot will loop there until next Christmas, it's why I asked builders in UT capable to override Editor's plonks with a Human Control based on eyes not bugged maths letting me to delete useless reachSpecs - the answer was not what I asked...

Edit:
And feedback:
#1 - FORGET Space in map-names;
#2 - Remove useless paths.
NotNeeded.PNG
PathNode nearby any item is only a charge without purpose.
Edit2:
#3 - Block Top area with something, I'm not supposed to sit there safe from threats, it's a DM map.
Map is a good looking one - RESPECT !
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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by McFrag » Wed May 13, 2020 9:21 am

@sektor2112, thanks! I'll play around with your tool. To be honest I'm quite happy about the bots on the moment as they seem to reach all items and areas of the map and also are making decent use of all platforms without just falling down and missing their actual targets. But I'll give it a try.
Blanks in filename will be removed with the next version. (I also added a song, fixed some bsp holes and the zone issue)
What do you mean with #3? Were you able to access the roof area? How did you get there?

In general I'm not very pleased with my weapon placement but don't really know what to do. I'll move the rocket cans to the bridge area to give players and bots a bit more purpose to be there, but on general a player can always access all weapons besides the shock rifle from top to down in less than 5 second. This leads to empty weapons for everybody else, what is bad for Gameplay. The solution is to better distribute the weapons over the map. In the moment I'm brain storming with myself about how to best do it. Any input is welcome ;)

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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by OjitroC » Wed May 13, 2020 12:17 pm

McFrag wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:21 am
What do you mean with #3? Were you able to access the roof area? How did you get there?
Yes, you can get right to the top on the roof area - I just checked it out by flying but a bot/player could possibly be 'boosted' up there by a rocket or shockwave (a more extreme possibility - playing LMS in the map a player could translocate up there and stay out of the action to win?).

There's ambient sound up there (wind noise) which can't be heard on the top-most walkway so you might want to increase the volume/radius of that sound.

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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by sektor2111 » Wed May 13, 2020 2:06 pm

McFrag wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:21 am
but on general a player can always access all weapons besides the shock rifle from top to down in less than 5 second. This leads to empty weapons for everybody else, what is bad for Gameplay. The solution is to better distribute the weapons over the map. In the moment I'm brain storming with myself about how to best do it. Any input is welcome ;)
You can decrease respawn-time and... Bots are heading to a random InventorySpot if there is nothing else to load... if map has good paths they should not have big problems in roaming...

Edit: I did not figure any BSP major issue by spectating 7 "adept Bots". Nothing went bad by removing Extra-Paths including "PathNode38" which doesn't make any sense. Here initial 932 reachspecs can be reduced to 348 and map will work extremely well.
This is a great DM map...

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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by OjitroC » Wed May 13, 2020 4:01 pm

McFrag wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:21 am
In general I'm not very pleased with my weapon placement but don't really know what to do.
I don't really know anything about weapon placement in DM maps but perhaps you should look at the relationship between PlayerStarts and weapons? I had a quick look in the Editor and, as far as I could tell, only PlayerStart8 was near a weapon (the rocket launcher - this would seem to give anyone spawning there a big advantage, on the face of it anyway). So moving PlayerStarts nearer to weapons (or the other way round) might be an idea or does that unbalance gameplay too much?

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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by McFrag » Wed May 13, 2020 10:45 pm

HI There,

I've worked on the beta 2:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhO0_2oZHvVCg-dcd0u ... g?e=pSlffP

Changes applied:
- Fixed some BSP holes
- Fixed zone issue
- Improved bot pathing (MapGarbage somehow crashes each time when I want to open it, have to look into this later)
- Slightly extended the stay open time for the two elevators and the very ends of the map that are leading to the bridge area
- Reduced spawn time of all weapons to 15 for a better accessibility
- Slightly changed item placement for better ammo and health distribution
- Added song (non final, I hope to get another one specially made from TittyTwister again)
- Added kill zone and a cloud zone behind each other into the sky
- Aligning of some textures
- Change of map name and removed all blanks from the filename

For the MapGarbage not working:
When clicking on the icon to start it a message appears saying: "MapGarbage ver. May2020 TaskEnded [LF] Working results are logged if available"
I checked for a log file, and apparently the editor.log file receives and timestamp update but nothing gets written into it (0kb file size)

Big thanks for all your support so far!!! :tu:

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Re: DM-Castellium-BETA

Post by OjitroC » Thu May 14, 2020 12:12 am

McFrag wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 10:45 pm
For the MapGarbage not working:
When clicking on the icon to start it a message appears saying: "MapGarbage ver. May2020 TaskEnded [LF] Working results are logged if available"
I checked for a log file, and apparently the editor.log file receives and timestamp update but nothing gets written into it (0kb file size)
Did you right click on the icon? Left clicking will bring up that message (and subsequent progress messages) but right clicking brings up the tool and its options.