CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

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EvilGrins
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CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:03 pm

This is the map I'm currently having fun with · https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... acc11.html

It has issues:
· Various places where bots spawn in do not have great pathing.
· The fountain in each flag room, bots fall in and they don't get out.
· Zones to the sides and below don't entirely kill players or monsters... they're left with +1 health but they're still wandering around and not respawning immediately.

Don't worry about the CreautreFactories, I'm gonna remove those for my own edit, but this map while beautiful has lots of other issues.

Help?
Attachments
Shot0109.png
Shot0172.png
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http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by Red_Fist » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:21 pm

That looks like the game Undying ,for some reason.
Binary Space Partitioning

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:28 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:03 pm
Don't worry about the CreautreFactories, I'm gonna remove those for my own edit, but ...
Here you have lost warranty for Bots. SpawnPoint is a navigation point. If you will remove it you'll have to rebuild paths or else you'll make a crusher map. If you rebuild paths using plain strategy, links connected over that mobile bridge are getting lost (map can have these even if here are just useless PathNodes) and extra dumb reachSpecs might be recreated.
If you want good Bot Support you'll have to NO LONGER touch paths-net adjusted manually and then... FIRST MOVE is removing those in advance before starting to fix anything else.
Interesting map I have to admit...

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:36 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:28 pm
Here you have lost warranty for Bots.
Nopers, they're still good.
sektor2111 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:28 pm
SpawnPoint is a navigation point. If you will remove it
I'm not moving any spawnpoints.
sektor2111 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:28 pm
FIRST MOVE is removing those in advance before starting to fix anything else.
Feel free to remove the creature factories then, will save me the trouble of doing it later.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:56 pm

TriggeredDeath used in this map is a BAD idea when it comes to monsters usage, they won't die, but they are hidden with health 1 and alive and without colliding projectiles, TriggeredDeath to me doesn't make any sense. This subject was one of latest fixes in my MH games, it's only doing a mess.
Here could be added a Trigger acting repeatedly and quickly with some damage amount from a SpecialEvent or even that zone can be set as a damaging one... There is no single reason to mess with TriggeredDeath and... adjusted to that collision size...
Speaking about CreatureFactory...
MentalAttack.PNG
I'm not going to talk about this "setup", maybe others want to do it.
I was talking about such junks called UNR files (friends are calling them maps) and then... I was the evil one... reality it's in other way, these mappers were not having any clue what were doing, that simple.

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:16 pm

A lot of CTF maps I've been finding lately have monsters on them, usually with Creature Factories. Sometimes i'm okay with that, in others like this map I'm not.

This map doesn't need them, so on an edit I'm practicing on of this map I removed all of them. I'm going to use other monsters (you can guess which) other than just UTDMW for team cannons in fixed positions.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:43 pm

The problem is more complex here, geometry has bugs and I see BSP cuts, I'm not sure if this can be fixed too quickly... I created a damaging zone and I had to rebuild Level, nothing was helpful, not even UGold227...

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by OjitroC » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:16 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:56 pm
Speaking about CreatureFactory...
I'm not going to talk about this "setup", maybe others want to do it.
I was talking about such junks called UNR files (friends are calling them maps) and then... I was the evil one... reality it's in other way, these mappers were not having any clue what were doing, that simple.
To be fair that's the only CF that's like that and is obviously a mistake - people do make mistakes and don't (or didn't) thoroughly test what they had produced :P :P

You'll be pleased to know the map isn't totally junk - not for me anyway as MonsterSpawn works fine in it and I can happily go hunting monsters. :P :P

Yes, of course there are lots of maps with lots of problems and it's evident that many mappers didn't really have a great command of all the skills and knowledge needed to make a fully functional and problem-free map. They probably didn't think people would still be playing their maps in 20 years time and probably made maps because they enjoyed doing so and found it fun at the time :P :P

A cleaned-up and fully functional version of the map would, of course, be great :D
EvilGrins wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:16 pm
A lot of CTF maps I've been finding lately have monsters on them, usually with Creature Factories. Sometimes i'm okay with that, in others like this map I'm not.

This map doesn't need them, so on an edit I'm practicing on of this map I removed all of them. I'm going to use other monsters (you can guess which) other than just UTDMW for team cannons in fixed positions.
This one certainly does have a load of SkaarjLords which are, as you say, unnecessary and they presumably make trying to play CTF somewhat annoying - some people may find it fun though.

There are also a lot of arrow and boulder spawners though I haven't come across them as yet.

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by Barbie » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:28 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:56 pm
Speaking about CreatureFactory...
Image
I'm not going to talk about this "setup", maybe others want to do it.
Yes, a ThingFactory should have been used. :loool:
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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:21 am

Yep... I would recommend spawning a Mover if possible :ironic:
OjitroC wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:16 pm
You'll be pleased to know the map isn't totally junk - not for me anyway as MonsterSpawn works fine in it and I can happily go hunting monsters.
Not totally, in big parts as long as not everyone is mapper...
I would ask why would I use monsters in games where monsters are ignoring Bots by default and Bots don't care too much about monsters - we know that original UT has a problem here and definitely such a CTFGame should not be the stock one. That bridge has PathNodes but I don't see where are paths.
For the rest... no comment...

Code: Select all

CTFReport: --- Reporting AlternatePaths setup: ---
CTFReport: For Team 0 = 0 pieces.
CTFReport: For Team 1 = 0 pieces.
CTFReport: Textures are toggling each time for figuring places, and they are restored at next hit.
VoidCheck: --- Void placement report ---
VoidCheck: Light271 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: Light133 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: Light218 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: Light1 looks placed into void.
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VoidCheck: Teleporter2 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: 140 actors look placed into void, check those.
StartingChecks: Map has 11 PlayerStart Actors for team 0.
StartingChecks: Map has 11 PlayerStart Actors for team 1.
DefenseChecks: Map has 0 DefensePoint Actors for team 0. Check if this is wrong.
DefenseChecks: Map has 0 DefensePoint Actors for team 1. Check if this is wrong.
...
MaxNumFound: I found 3739 reachspecs, from 0 to 3738.
WarnDist: 4 reachSpecs have nodes claimed too close.
Yeah sure it's fun... :thudown:
Edit: Let me look at Net Games using such "magic" stuff:
snippet below

Code: Select all

...
StaticsCheck: Bork >> UTFlare45 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> UTFlare46 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> UTFlare48 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> UTFlare49 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> UTFlare10 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> UTFlare11 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> UTFlare12 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> UTFlare0 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> Teleporter77 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> Teleporter78 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
...
And has more such "magic" for not using another sort of words... I do not have more plans here.
Edit2: Do you want more entertaining "magic" ? Sure, why not ?
Some XC class said (XC_Engine_Actor):

Code: Select all

//Natives that are exclusive to this actor type and are safe to call in clients.
native final function bool GetReachSpec( out ReachSpec R, int Idx);
native final function bool SetReachSpec( ReachSpec R, int Idx, optional bool bAutoSet);
native final function int ReachSpecCount();
native final function int AddReachSpec( ReachSpec R, optional bool bAutoSet); //Returns index of newle created ReachSpec
native final function int FindReachSpec( Actor Start, Actor End); //-1 if not found, useful for finding unused specs (actor = none)
native final function CompactPathList( NavigationPoint N); //Also cleans up invalid paths (Start or End = NONE)
native final function LockToNavigationChain( NavigationPoint N, bool bLock);
...
Do you know my question here ? What's the deal in client with NavigationPointlist when Teleporters properly crapped up are missing, but map has reachSpecs referencing them ? It's why sektor2111 will never touch NavigationPointList from clients and any other thing like this, but NEVER, and doing nothing on this side.
Anything else ? And then it comes question regarding to garbage collector referencing a Teleporter or such which heck knows what happened with it.
I might be wrong here and there and then, fix me if I'm wrong...

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by schwap » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:56 pm

Red_Fist wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:21 pm
That looks like the game Undying ,for some reason.
It is actually from Rune
Image

and he doesn't even mention it in the readme Image

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by OjitroC » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:38 pm

schwap wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:56 pm
It is actually from Rune
and he doesn't even mention it in the readme
Very well spotted - the rainbow bridge certainly does give it a magical feel. So, as a matter of interest, is it a reconstruction or a direct rip of the map from Rune (if that is possible)?

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by schwap » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:55 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:38 pm
schwap wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:56 pm
It is actually from Rune
and he doesn't even mention it in the readme
Very well spotted - the rainbow bridge certainly does give it a magical feel. So, as a matter of interest, is it a reconstruction or a direct rip of the map from Rune (if that is possible)?
Looks like he imported it and then modified it a little on the outside - the interior is new though, the rune version of it doesn't have any interior there since it's the ending scene of the game
(might be ripped from a different map tho :noidea :D )

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:03 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:16 pm
This one certainly does have a load of SkaarjLords which are, as you say, unnecessary and they presumably make trying to play CTF somewhat annoying - some people may find it fun though.
There's a several variations of CTF-CivilWar that have monsters on them in -between the bases for no particular reason. I plan on swapping out those with Team Monsters for those, see how that works.
schwap wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:55 pm
Looks like he imported it and then modified it a little on the outside - the interior is new though, the rune version of it doesn't have any interior there since it's the ending scene of the game (might be ripped from a different map tho :noidea :D )
There's 2 versions of this map, the other has a different setup outside but the castles look the same at least externally · https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... ccbd1.html
OjitroC wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:16 pm
There are also a lot of arrow and boulder spawners though I haven't come across them as yet.
Don't know about the boulders, but the arrows are in the gated tunnel between the castles. When the gates drop on either side, whoever is trapped in there gets shredded by arrows.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
Smilies · viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by OjitroC » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:20 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:03 pm
Don't know about the boulders, but the arrows are in the gated tunnel between the castles. When the gates drop on either side, whoever is trapped in there gets shredded by arrows.
I've now discovered that that is where the boulders are as well - so no chance of surviving unless one can get into the small side tunnel as the gates close and before the arrows/boulders start flying.
schwap wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:56 pm
Looks like he imported it and then modified it a little on the outside - the interior is new though, the rune version of it doesn't have any interior there since it's the ending scene of the game
(might be ripped from a different map tho :noidea :D )
Looking at the readme from the first version of this map, I see that there is more detail on its origins - quote from the readme :-" I always Liked Castles and I got this Idea from pictures of the disneyland castle and a couple of castles in Germany. And a backdrop from the Rune Game."

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