CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

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sektor2111
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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by sektor2111 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:18 pm

Sample which I did is aiming @RedFist toward how I pathed bridges.
Next ones
- he might look over geometry in various spots;
- some WarpZonemarker was in void - any reason to fall from map ? Here some zone went evil - giving me headaches at rebuilding Navigation Chain...
- I don't recall too many items moved;
- ArrowSpawner is not something which I need - even in patch files I ruin them completely.

For next Edits:
- whoever need Arrows in a..$ might copy them in final "fixed" map from previous original one;
- You can also throw some teleporters back and screwed up and keep doing a mess in Net games - no need paths re-build here;
- me one I'm not doing borked net maps just because it looks funny or less funny;
- whatever is missing can be added as long as I left name ...TestV because I don't find this as a FINAL or Ready it's just for next fixing stage - what I'm calling an Open-Team-Work.
- instead of messing with stock actors like that, a MyLevel is always an answer at whatever "static" set as not "static";
- There is no need to keep the "cleaned" test-map, you can use the other previous one.

In mean-time I'll look at those HOMS. The self mention: When sektor2111 is playing CTF he wants to kill opponents NOT the MAP, unless map will get some score :loool: for killing players/bots or we might need an advanced scoreboard creating a score for map and even stats for such killer maps... I understand killing if you do a mistake as a punishing thingy, but killing for no reason is not what I play in any way.
But... because I like you all :twisted: I can write some special ZoneInfo (or LocationID) actor delegated to kill pawns at random based on whatever factor, and you can use it doing X maps without too much work. Just kill for no reason, perhaps this is the next level of gaming.

Edit: LOL, Editor doesn't show too many HOM places at Warps, it's why this needs a lot of ghosting and testing in run-time... :|

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by Red_Fist » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:27 pm

Got map.I will look soon, that map was made wrong causing other areas to be affected. I just got so many things to do
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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by OjitroC » Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:06 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:18 pm

Edit: LOL, Editor doesn't show too many HOM places at Warps, it's why this needs a lot of ghosting and testing in run-time... :|
Yes, have a look at the Warpzones in the lower room of each base - the Warps need to be oriented correctly to get a full view of the rooms in the 'windows' - the HOM is in one window in both rooms and appears to be where the 'window' gives a view of a series of arches.

I take what you say about being killed by the map - I'm no big fan of traps and, on the whole, tend to avoid maps which have them - however the gated trap in this map certainly makes sense as it is a form of defence open to both team (check though how it is triggered by bots as they may do it and kill members of their own team). In my view anyway, the firey traps in the flagrooms also make sense as they stop the use of the shortcut I outlined in my previous post.

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by EvilGrins » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:21 pm

Red's version 9 looks pretty good, but I was confused by this:
Image
Why remove that?

Notably the bots kept getting hung up on weapons:
Image

Otherwise I didn't see any other real issues.

Sek's version 10, looks good, and the lower bridge got a lot more traffic:
Image
There wasn't much traffic on the original map down there, so I didn't know the bridge collapsed. Bots kept running off the edge while it was gone.

But then, just like magic, it sorta came back:
Image

Image

I haven't noticed anything else yet, although it was nice to see everybody completely died when they fell.
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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by sektor2111 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:36 pm

Bridge control is also doable - if all geometry would be solved I have a "paths-toggler" (for a final version) locking those routes when bridges are gone and unlocking them if anything else it's adding another "magic" bridge (as I could see in a game session spectating bots).
I used that "toggler" last time in some maps and it worked properly.

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by OjitroC » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:34 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:21 pm
Sek's version 10, looks good, and the lower bridge got a lot more traffic:
One thing I forgot to mention about that version is that I noticed bots would sometimes get hung up (running on the spot) just by the flag - not sure which flag base it was though.

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by sektor2111 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:43 pm

Any of such random occurrence can be solved if I know which Base has this problem (they are different). If a FlagBase has a bad placement or some reachSpec does damage I can add a new connection elsewhere. The rest of teleporters blocked temporary by some mutator (I did such ones...) are not exactly a big issue, teleporter is unblocked shortly or bugger will explode. If any Point on the way to some Base has a changed uppered ExtraCost, all road is blocked - it's how engine works. Else if a BSP might do funky stuff, it will need some fix, this map has X problems and it will need more work...

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by OjitroC » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:16 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:43 pm
Any of such random occurrence can be solved if I know which Base has this problem (they are different). If a FlagBase has a bad placement or some reachSpec does damage I can add a new connection elsewhere.
Pity I don't remember which base - I think it may have been Red but not entirely certain - I'll try and see if it happens again.

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by Red_Fist » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:55 am

I looked at the original and that chopped off pillar was there so I assumed that was supposed to be like that, need to look again see if a brush is there or not.

What I did was make it possible to fix, the way it was would be insane to try and fix and not worth it.

I didn't try to repair everything or analyze the movers or triggers or creature factories or lifts, I just moved the weapons in the flag rooms for not so many paths., I messed with one warpzone and it screwed up the others, so it needs some time to figure all that out.

I had to vertex edit one of those terrain mountains, was a hole to void and created funky zones. Since all the brushes are mounted inside those terrains, messing with a vertex will screw up other parts up top, I fixed a few but didn't do much more.

They also put these large subtract brushes not hitting anything, so he must have had a problem and tried fixing it like that, but there is just no way that crap can stay in there,. So that probably added some other funky spots in the map.

It is fixable now though. I think the mover bridge should be changed to just drop and come back, he is using some two mover combo that I didn't want to figure out at the moment. Looks like he made the other movers a translucent, might be what they (magic) did.
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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by Red_Fist » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:02 am

Nope totally not going to work on this.

What he has is the warp room floor buttons control a mover on the other side, and a center mover that rises to get to the warps.

Then there is a ton of teleporters, it has a lot of things going on for CTF, so I don't want to invest any more time on something I am not sure what is good for CTF with the plans he was trying to do.
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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by sektor2111 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:29 am

So you have get into similar conclusions like me - I'm curious in how many populated servers now days it's played such a map. I don't have a CTF feeling here.

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by OjitroC » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:48 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:29 am
So you have get into similar conclusions like me - I'm curious in how many populated servers now days it's played such a map. I don't have a CTF feeling here.
I'm sure you're right - it's not a CTF map that's going to attract many people these days (it requires a different style of gameplay to that which most people play online now) - it's OK to play for a while off-line but that's about it.

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by EvilGrins » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:10 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:48 pm
it's OK to play for a while off-line but that's about it.
Which is how I'd largely play it, once we get it working right.
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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by OjitroC » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:29 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:10 pm
Which is how I'd largely play it, once we get it working right.
Yes, I agree, so would I - possibly there's slightly too much emphasis given to 'fixing' maps so they can be played online and overlooking off-line playing. The problem with this map is it looks like there are a lot of problems that are time-consuming to deal with.

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Re: CTF Magic Kingdoms, pathing & zone & etc fixes request

Post by sektor2111 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:02 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:29 pm
a lot of problems that are time-consuming to deal with
And this time can be used for adjusting/cleaning other maps - somehow a more constructive waste of time.

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