Assigning gametypes to maps... or not

Tutorials and discussions about Mapping - Introduce your own ones!
User avatar
EvilGrins
Godlike
Posts: 8817
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:12 pm
Personal rank: God of Fudge
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Assigning gametypes to maps... or not

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:39 pm

One advantage I feel I have in editing existing maps is noting the lil' goof-ups because I tend to launch maps I downloaded without directly opening UT. As I associated the map-files with the .exe for the game, I just double-click the map and it opens the game for it specifically.

The "goof-up" I frequently discover is that the gametype was never assigned. Now if you do this the conventional way, open UT and select a gametype and then the available maps you'd never notice this sort of thing, but I frequently double-click a (for example) CTF map and it opens up in Deathmatch, and occasionally in Domination.

Fixing this is simple, though it means I've gotta rename the map to avoid potential file conflicts:
Image

If you double-click this CTF3 map, it opens in Domination, as it was assigned the wrong gametype:
https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... a0965.html
Although the map has each of the 3 flag positions duo setup with control points too.

If you double-click this CTF map, it opens in Deathmatch, as it was assigned no gametype:
https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... 459f3.html

Although that Appalachian-Wonderland map is a lil' bit more tricky...
Image
...as it's setup for both CTF & DOM, it has flag placements & control points setup.

Curiously, UnrealArchive has 3 listings of that map, 2 for Deathmatch and 1 for CTF but nothing for DOM.

Possibly only I and Silver Ibex (guy who made the map) have the map setup for Domination, I renamed a copy to DOM-Appalachian-Wonderland.

Most of the older UT99 maps aren't specifically assigned a gametype, even if they're configured for it... but the issue persists as even more recently made maps don't always have the gametype assigned. Not that this is an issue for most players, as they don't launch the maps outside of UT.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
Image
medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
Smilies · viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758

User avatar
Neon_Knight
Adept
Posts: 326
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:31 pm
Location: Junín (BA - Argentina)

Re: Assigning gametypes to maps... or not

Post by Neon_Knight » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:35 pm

That could be an issue to be solved in v469. If the map has a prefix and doesn't have a gametype specified, it should open in the gametype specified in the prefix, provided there's an actual list to compare (or that should be limited only to official gametypes).
OldUnreal U1v227/UTv469 Localization Project coordinator/spanish language maintainer - Unreal Wiki
ProTip 1: anybody using the phrase "I'm a True Fan and You're Not!" is an obnoxious, self-centered, egotistical, elitist, narcissist douchebag.
ProTip 2: anybody who uses the "Royal We" when making a demand wants to pass their own opinion as everyone else's.
ProTip 3: Only the people that do nothing but criticize don't make mistakes. Do things. Make mistakes. Learn from them. And screw those who do nothing but throw poison and criticize.
ProTip 4: If the Duke Nukem Forever fiasco wasn't enough of a lesson, perfectionism leads to nothing positive. Don't be afraid of releasing a buggy product. Even the most polished product has its flaws.

User avatar
EvilGrins
Godlike
Posts: 8817
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:12 pm
Personal rank: God of Fudge
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Re: Assigning gametypes to maps... or not

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:43 pm

Neon_Knight wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:35 pm
That could be an issue to be solved in v469. If the map has a prefix and doesn't have a gametype specified, it should open in the gametype specified in the prefix, provided there's an actual list to compare (or that should be limited only to official gametypes).
That could cause issues with unusual gametypes. MonsterHunt is standard now but it didn't used to be so, Jailbreak & Thievery are fairly unusual gametypes, and BunnyTrack maps fit over a wide variety of gametypes.

I don't even know what gametype this one is · https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... 5c2af.html

Not to mention instances where the mapper accidentally gave a map the wrong prefix.

Assigning correctly seems the best way to go, but sadly not everyone does that.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
Image
medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
Smilies · viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758

User avatar
Neon_Knight
Adept
Posts: 326
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:31 pm
Location: Junín (BA - Argentina)

Re: Assigning gametypes to maps... or not

Post by Neon_Knight » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:46 pm

Yeah, it's still the responsibility of the mappers, even though it's expected maps and matches to be launched through the GUI or by specifying the gametype in the command line rather than just double-clicking a file.
OldUnreal U1v227/UTv469 Localization Project coordinator/spanish language maintainer - Unreal Wiki
ProTip 1: anybody using the phrase "I'm a True Fan and You're Not!" is an obnoxious, self-centered, egotistical, elitist, narcissist douchebag.
ProTip 2: anybody who uses the "Royal We" when making a demand wants to pass their own opinion as everyone else's.
ProTip 3: Only the people that do nothing but criticize don't make mistakes. Do things. Make mistakes. Learn from them. And screw those who do nothing but throw poison and criticize.
ProTip 4: If the Duke Nukem Forever fiasco wasn't enough of a lesson, perfectionism leads to nothing positive. Don't be afraid of releasing a buggy product. Even the most polished product has its flaws.

User avatar
EvilGrins
Godlike
Posts: 8817
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:12 pm
Personal rank: God of Fudge
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Re: Assigning gametypes to maps... or not

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:39 am

I learned something interesting today.

For home games I often use a mutator called Map-Randomizer. It's fairly simple and basic. Can set it to select from a list of maps or every single map I have of whatever gametype I'm playing.

As I mentioned above, not all maps have the proper setting because the mapper forgot to specifically set a map for its intended gametype. This is something I've only been aware of recently, and I've since been setting up maps I edit with the appropriate selection under LevelInfo... but that doesn't count the maps I've previously edited. Such as CTF maps I renamed to DM, turns out their former game setting is still listed under Level-Info.

I was playing CTF earlier and when the map I finished was over, MapRandomizer switched to DM-HallOfGiants-IVish... because that map may have "DM" in the title but its internal settings are still set for CTF.

Whoops!
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
Image
medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
Smilies · viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758

Buggie
Godlike
Posts: 1490
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:32 am

Re: Assigning gametypes to maps... or not

Post by Buggie » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:33 am

Best solution - if game type not filled on save map - UnrealEd bring prompt window for specify one or few game types.

User avatar
Neon_Knight
Adept
Posts: 326
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:31 pm
Location: Junín (BA - Argentina)

Re: Assigning gametypes to maps... or not

Post by Neon_Knight » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:26 pm

Some maps could lend themselves surprisingly well to other gametypes, with the right adjustments. There are many DM maps which would work well in Domination. (Gothic, for example).

The key for proper DOM maps is that these points should be placed in highly recognizable areas with proper names. "Alpha"-"Beta"-"Gamma", "A"-"B"-"C" or "Shock Rifle"-"Flak Cannon"-"Rocket Launcher" aren't really indicative of where a point is, whereas names such as "Conveyor Belt"-"Library"-"Lake" are.

My main gripe with the maps is that most of them either aren't properly zoned/locationId'd, lack location names, or both at the same time. Named zones are important in team games, as they allow players to instantly know where a teammate is. And the names must identify the zones themselves, not just the weapons on them (instead of naming an area where there's a conveyor belt "Shock Rifle", they could have named it "Conveyor Belt"). This is mainly a problem in non-base-based maps of non-team-based modes such as Deathmatch. And mapeditors being lazy.
OldUnreal U1v227/UTv469 Localization Project coordinator/spanish language maintainer - Unreal Wiki
ProTip 1: anybody using the phrase "I'm a True Fan and You're Not!" is an obnoxious, self-centered, egotistical, elitist, narcissist douchebag.
ProTip 2: anybody who uses the "Royal We" when making a demand wants to pass their own opinion as everyone else's.
ProTip 3: Only the people that do nothing but criticize don't make mistakes. Do things. Make mistakes. Learn from them. And screw those who do nothing but throw poison and criticize.
ProTip 4: If the Duke Nukem Forever fiasco wasn't enough of a lesson, perfectionism leads to nothing positive. Don't be afraid of releasing a buggy product. Even the most polished product has its flaws.

User avatar
EvilGrins
Godlike
Posts: 8817
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:12 pm
Personal rank: God of Fudge
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Re: Assigning gametypes to maps... or not

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:33 pm

Neon_Knight wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:26 pm
Some maps could lend themselves surprisingly well to other gametypes, with the right adjustments. There are many DM maps which would work well in Domination.
There's an old DM map I only just realized would be ideal for CTF4. Next project I'm thinking of starting for after the skinning contest.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
Image
medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
Smilies · viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758

User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
Posts: 5875
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: Assigning gametypes to maps... or not

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:22 pm

Nominate me a few stock maps having game-type declared. Why to mess custom things ? For certain mutator poorly coded ? See this...
Stock_Null.PNG
Do you know my opinion ? This DefaultGameType variable to me looks like almost useless for majority of stock games. 20 years UT'99 has survived with Deck16 without problems even if map has NOTHING as game-type...
If you don't have any game-type you can start what game you want as default using main INI file. Of course, I have to admit that for certain Coop/SP game, map should "explain" what game-type must be loaded.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.