CTF-Noxion][

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sektor2111
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Re: CTF-Noxion][

Post by sektor2111 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:53 pm

I'm curious what else can be done at visual aspect and balancing items.

For pathing... I think I'll do that later... generally tutorials with regard to Bot Pathing are not telling everything because they lack in information and certain things described are FALSE, I've already detonated ramp myths with 300 400 uu distance between nodes because I've done 1000+ UU using custom paths makers and manual adjusting - to not talk about VISIBILITY "required" which... depends on situation, lol - story is longer here. It's about understanding connections/reachspecs and their importance, locations of nodes, heights, movement physics, and the whole story has PAGES not a poorly written chapter and I think I don't have a good english for explaining in popular terms what's going on and what common mistakes were done. People are still getting over what Engine has as default option in UnPath.h header 3000 reachSpecs allocation data (- I'm not sure if it wants too many), ignoring rule and... complaining later about Bot not about what they did - Bot did not mapped anything. Then, sample me a tutorial describing how do this DevPath is working and hard-coded limits - tricky recommendations - debugging solutions and so on. Anyone ? Two fingers up ? I'm the first interested in reading 10 chapters about this subject because I want to know more here.

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OjitroC
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Re: CTF-Noxion][

Post by OjitroC » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:11 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:53 pm
People are still getting over what Engine has as default option in UnPath.h header 3000 reachSpecs allocation data (- I'm not sure if it wants too many), ignoring rule and... complaining later about Bot not about what they did - Bot did not mapped anything.
As a matter of interest, what visible effects would players see playing a map with 2900 ReachSpecs and then playing the same map with 3500 ReachSpecs (or vice versa)? What would the noticeable impacts on AI behaviour be?

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sektor2111
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Re: CTF-Noxion][

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:21 pm

Some of these results are not very predictable, 1000 paths limit has been touched, too bad that people are not looking at logs when Bots are messing up around, etc.
The question is: WHAT if we are sitting INSIDE instead of let me see how is Outside ?
There are samples similar to CTF-AYeti and others from MH and not only MH. What's the purpose of the same discussions ?
Those looping spots are often in maps with more than 3000-4000 reachSpecs - you can check these yourself.

Back to Noxion - the map might have a normal charge and a smoother processing, I will wait visual editing results.

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Re: CTF-Noxion][

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:52 pm

Bump: Until something better will show up, I'll drop out a version a bit more balanced and...
Oh well, even BlueBase won't have this invisible lamp with light coming from nowhere:
NoLight.png
A version having map covered in big parts with only 1137 reachSpecs perhaps will help someone else...
CTF-Noxion_rS1137.7z
(618.52 KiB) Downloaded 3 times
I don't think this edit cannot be better than that...

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Re: CTF-Noxion][

Post by ANUBITEK » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:52 am

Sorry to get back to this topic so late, had some crashes in this editor which reminded me why I hate the UT editor and prefer the UGold editor. Not sure what I was doing to get them. Got back to it today, going through the map now.

@sektor2111
This is more for personal reference, but when pathing nodes in a map are deleted and AI paths are not rebuilt, do the reachspecs remain on the map until I were to rebuild AI pathing? I ask because of what you had posted on an earlier date.

edit:
Oh, whoops! I didn't see that the topic had a second page at this point. I'll check out your edit and study it.

edit2:
Many more questions now. Regarding SmartAlternatePath actors, why are they necessary? Same with InventorySpot actors. Additionally are InventorySpot actors required for every item on a map? My assumption was that paths would be determined by bots without these being necessary, I'm curious now. I didn't know those even existed actually. Could you explain some of your changes? Thank you for taking the time to do them, whether you want me to use them or not.

edit3:
Also fixed zone properties of kill liquid I think, needs testing but I copied the properties from DM-KGalleon. Also credit changed back to Razorclaw, added an "edit by" section. Will credit sektor for pathing if they want it. Screenshots added, though I am now realizing I no longer have the original map, just an earlier save. The texturing, adding of a liquid death pool, and editing the skybox to have mountains and adjusting the lighting is all that was really changed by me. There is also a screenshot that shows the rocket launcher is no longer where it was, instead it is closer to the flag. Left editor is the edit, right is the version that is closest to original (no texture or geometry edits). Very last image with crates is supposed to show that the original had crates placed closer to each other which didn't mirror the Red base, changed that.
Attachments
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Last edited by ANUBITEK on Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: CTF-Noxion][

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:29 am

ANUBITEK wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:52 am
Many more questions now. Regarding SmartAlternatePath actors, why are they necessary? Same with InventorySpot actors.
Seriously ?
Have you checked CTFGame code or Flag Code. Have you seen if your edit has InventorySpots and who adds them and why ?

First of all AlternatePaths are CTF stuff for making Bots to follow and use various directions/paths and to be less predictable when are using the same shortest route. The second stuff, plain DevPath is adding InventorySpot without discrimination because this is one of Bot goals and you should learn these once forever.
Maybe you need to open more stock CTF maps as EternalCave, Coret and see if mappers were using AlternatePaths - a self explanatory name... I think.
Last edited by sektor2111 on Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CTF-Noxion][

Post by ANUBITEK » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:36 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:29 am
ANUBITEK wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:52 am
Many more questions now. Regarding SmartAlternatePath actors, why are they necessary? Same with InventorySpot actors.
Seriously ?
Have you checked CTFGame code or Flag Code. Have you seen if your edit has InventorySpots and who adds them and why ?
Yes seriously, I haven't looked at ANY UT code ever, and haven't looked at even my own mod code in at least 2 years. And I looked at the edit, that is why I am asking. lol
sektor2111 wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:29 am
First of all AlternatePaths are CTF stuff for making Bots to follow and use various directions/paths and to be less predictable when are using the same shortest route. The second stuff, plain DevPath is adding InventorySpot without discrimination because this is one of Bot goals and you should learn these once forever.
Maybe you need to open more stock CTF map as EternalCave, Coret and see if mappers were using AlternatePaths - a self explanatory name... I think.
Yeah, certainly. I cooked this edit up in a couple of days months ago, without having done more than making older death match maps, most of which never even saw the light of day (gone forever). It was intended to just be a small texture/geometry/pickup edit, I didn't have plans on releasing it initially. There is no need to be rude, I appreciate you taking the time to respond though. I'm not particularly well versed on map making and all info is welcome.

Edit:
Also it is up to you if I upload your version with the bot paths as the final, with small changes to SlimeZone and author credits.
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Re: CTF-Noxion][

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:08 am

I_Spots_N16.PNG
And
AP_N16.PNG
You have such things in your previous Edit too...

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