Is this worth fixing?

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EvilGrins
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Is this worth fixing?

Post by EvilGrins » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:41 am

Found a mapper that goes by GR8_1 who specializes in GIANT SIZE maps that're detailed and overall decent... but there's this one that's arguably the LARGEST.

It keeps crashing, and one time froze my computer.

Is this map just TOO BIG?
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Last edited by EvilGrins on Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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OjitroC
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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by OjitroC » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:22 pm

There is another version (well there's actually several) - don't know if you've tried this one but it works OK for me dm-littlesoldiersse_9570dfa7.html

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EvilGrins
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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by EvilGrins » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:40 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:22 pm
There is another version (well there's actually several)
I hadn't, thanks... but it brings into question if GR8_1 is as good a mapper as I thought.

That map and his are virtually identical, though his closed the door to the bathroom... and he put his identifying textures for his clan all over the place.

Any idea who the original author is?
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OjitroC
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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by OjitroC » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:00 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:40 pm
Any idea who the original author is?
Darko (GATARAX) Gatara - according to the page I linked to above!

With the original you posted, I'm not sure if it was actually 'built' - when I tried it out with MonsterSpawn, nothing spawned suggesting that there were no pathnodes (or that they weren't properly linked). Using sektor's MapGarbage tool, I cleaned up a few things including using his build command and then tried it and monsters/relics were correctly spawned. So it is possible to clean it up as regards that - of course, it has far too many reachspecs which may (or may not) account for the bot crashes you had.

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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by Chamberly » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:01 pm

Man, I played that map and other remake of that map many of times on servers even with bots on it. Not sure how you are getting the crash, and something doesn't seem right about the pathing for your bots. Does it start without the bot on your end?
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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by EvilGrins » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:13 pm

Chamberly wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:01 pm
Does it start without the bot on your end?
I never play without bots, so I don't know.

Already deleted that bad version.
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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by Buggie » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:13 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:41 am
Is this map just TOO BIG?
If map too big you face this issues:
1. Map overflow zones limit. Zone merges in strange way. You walk on corridor and unexpectedly realize there water/lava. Or you enter water/lava, but there just air and you fall.
2. Map overflow nodes limit by static brushes. This map can not be saved so you can not find such maps in wild.
3. Map overflow points limit by static brushes. This map crash on try render first frame with message about point limit overflowed.
4. Map overflow nodes limit by full count, include movers. Some movers on map not visible. You can push them, but its surfaces lost. Monsters/bots/players see you but can not walk from this invisible obstacle.
5. Map overflow points limit by full count, include movers. Map load all look fine, you going on level see and push some lever and game crash with message about overflow points limit.
6. Too many monsters. All laggy as hell. Possible game crash. Possible not. But you can not play with few fps. If you run such map on network, your weapon can disappear, projectiles not visible and other laggy stuff.
7. Too big paths network. Game crash on start with message about runaway loop when try find closest nodes in navigate network.

I hope I list all cases.

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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by EvilGrins » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:15 pm

Buggie wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:13 pm
6. Too many monsters.
Huh, never say those. Map must've crashed before I found them.
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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by Buggie » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:18 pm

You can try Beta1: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14166
There near 1700 monsters. Map must be pretty laggy. Especially in bad places like castle. Enable god mode, dont kill monster and follow map to castle.
Event without monsters here drop fps sometimes to 20. If you fly to top and look from above - drop to 5 fps. 1700 monsters on map reduce this slideshow to shit show. :lol:
also you can use simple ghost command and fly. Castle is big part. Back at respawn direction.

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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by Chamberly » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:25 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:15 pm
Buggie wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:13 pm
6. Too many monsters.
Huh, never say those. Map must've crashed before I found them.
Afaik this map does not have any monsters. Nor it's edited maps. Except the ones on Wildcard's server.

Edit: But I'll throw in a guess. There is a lot of stuff going on EvilGrin's end that fiddled around things or something.
Higor was telling me that somehow a pathnode got deleted without being rebuild and saved and that's the crash.
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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by sektor2111 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:43 pm

Knock, Knock!
Who's there ?
I'll show who and who does what...
Let me see some "master mapping" - fake news as usual

Code: Select all

VoidCheck: PlayerStart2 looks placed into void.
... spam spam spam
VoidCheck: SniperRifle4 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: BulletBox9 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: BulletBox10 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: BulletBox11 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: BulletBox12 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: BulletBox53 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: BulletBox54 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: BulletBox55 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: BulletBox56 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: SniperRifle15 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: ripper0 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: ShockCore19 looks placed into void.
... spam spam
VoidCheck: ShockRifle5 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: Ambushpoint0 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: Ambushpoint1 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: Light389 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: MedBox65 looks placed into void.
... spam spam
VoidCheck: PathNode28 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: PathNode29 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: PathNode32 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: PathNode33 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: PathNode34 looks placed into void.
... spam spam
VoidCheck: InventorySpot865 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: InventorySpot866 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: InventorySpot867 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: InventorySpot868 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: InventorySpot869 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: InventorySpot911 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: InventorySpot912 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: InventorySpot913 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: InventorySpot914 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: InventorySpot915 looks placed into void.
... spam spam
VoidCheck: 164 actors look placed into void, check those.
Good...
Done ?
No, it's not done...
PrettyInsane.PNG
Broken.PNG
This is definitely corruption - something is deleted. Or we are talking about a massive Copy-Paste with navigation points loaded with references which were placed in other source map. After Pasting, navigation was not rebuild leaving referenced "Nones" and crashing DevPath. This is a n00b mapping crash, with all respect, no offense intended. When reachSpecs defined in Navigation Network are MORE than reachSpecs which map might have then we talk about a crazy move here. Yeah, boys and girls - you don't know what you do in Goblin and Goblin has a "decent" reaction at your habits.
Lol_Navigation.PNG
RushedSheet.PNG
"Decent" were you saying ? You have to be kidding me.
Edit: I was about to forget these:

Code: Select all

WrongPoint: LiftCenter0  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
BorkedStrings: This might not have connections or... it can be connected through walls with Exits if they exist.
WrongPoint: LiftCenter1  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
WrongPoint: LiftCenter2  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
WrongPoint: LiftCenter3  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
WrongPoint: LiftCenter4  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
WrongPoint: JumpSpot0  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
WrongPoint: JumpSpot1  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
WrongPoint: PainPath0  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
WrongPoint: PainPath1  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
WrongPoint: PainPath2  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
WrongPoint: PainPath3  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
WrongPoint: PainPath4  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
WrongPoint: PainPath5  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
WrongPoint: PainPath6  doesn't have a private LiftTag string defined, which is pretty wrong.
FlawedCombos: This map has 14 messed up Combos, you need to check settings...
Someone needs some pathing classes...
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OjitroC
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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by OjitroC » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:49 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:43 pm
"Decent" were you saying ? You have to be kidding me.
The overall design and layout are OK - the so-called remix has well and truly messed the pathing and other stuff up. So no, that version isn't decent and isn't worth playing around with. It will work OK for human players of course.

After using your MapGarbage tool, I got the pathnodes in a state where they were well enough linked to spawn monsters and relics in the map, which is all I need.

You forgot about the stuff falling out of the world :P

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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by sektor2111 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:23 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:49 pm
You forgot about the stuff falling out of the world
My bad, I think I'm getting older... even in previous post I described some of those from void but no everyone is reading and understanding what is about VOID actors...
And design... with Engine.DefaultTexture - sure that's a jewel, the most beautiful thing on Planet :ironic: . Brushes here are deleted... which is "amazing" because a lot of GB of data were saved :ironic: , good luck with re-texturing this...

Anyway, for a quick recovery of such messed up junks, I will add some tiny features in future MapGarbage for helping at fixing such "great decent" maps more quickly:
- deleting certain void actors ( lights, pathnodes, items - out of purpose, not attached at movers );
- Probably mapping triggers for those long way Lifts and causing at them InitialState TriggerOpenTimed and not other trash setup - selecting a LiftExit and BUILD, A trigger is added around it corresponding to Lift used - if lift is mapped properly (MapGarbage won't fail at making Combo connections);
- perhaps other node reporting/removing toward those closer to Inventories at certain distance;
- throwing ammo in whatever group ? If this group is hidden XC paths creator won't produce Extra reachSpecs saving map from being charged with "sheet";
- any idea ?

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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by OjitroC » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:13 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:23 pm
Anyway, for a quick recovery of such messed up junks, I will add some tiny features in future MapGarbage for helping at fixing such "great decent" maps more quickly:
Good idea - though I'm not sure it's worth the trouble if there are useable and non-remixed original versions of the map around - which appear to work fine and don't have stuff in the void - the latter possibly isn't surprising as a whole room was deleted from this map for no apparent reason.

It could be that the original LittleSoldiers map was inspired by DavidM's DM-SmallSoldiers which is worth having a look at.

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Re: Is this worth fixing?

Post by sektor2111 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:36 pm

Yep... I was toying a bit here, 2740 reachSpecs might cover map in big parts... and all network has normal integrity out of any corruptions.
In 227 is easy to check those Face-At-Wall dumb things and rotating them in seconds. I don't know if map has BSP problems, those cannot be solved out of brushes, maybe EG wants to try it, PlayerStarts are too many for plain UT, only XC_Engine will use these.

Edit: Umm, after looking at 14 Bots Playing I could see some Spawn places isolated and causing a long time camp without a game. Others were common buggers - angled paths around heading into wall which I had to adjust. Then, more PathNodes weren't doing anything good than charging data - I deleted them.
I wrote something In MapGarbage for adding triggers at lifts by selecting one of combo points which turns lift instantly into a TriggerOpenTimed and adding a trigger around selected Node and doing Event-Tag string connection. Using this way I mapped lifts except some elevator heading to another elevator and... NO brushes, and I was too lazy for adding manual reachSpecs - NOT NEEDED after all - because we do have already 2995 reachSpecs.
If you, guys, want to do more than I did or to ruin something, be my guest, adjusted map-file is this one:
DM-FNLittleSoldiersV[OMA]_rS2995.7z
If whatever path is causing loops, let me know, I'll delete reachSpec from there, the fewer paths the better for processing. Several items are not having connections, I did not wanted to get over 3000 reachSpecs and doing other changes. If you have recommendations or modifications or adding other sort of paths let me know what's the idea.
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