Possible CTF conversion

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EvilGrins
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Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:25 am

You ever had a map for a really long time and after awhile thought it might work well for a different gametype than it came in?

I've had this particular map for over a decade:
https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... 2a5ff.html

It's massive, which can be fun for deathmatch, and it has warp zones / teleports to 2 different eras. The concept is the paths lead to the same map in 2 different points in time. Both timezones look mostly identical, same layout with different textures and a few extra elements. There's also triggers on both sides that cause a barrage of redeemers to fall from the sky and kill anyone who hasn't jumped for cover.

Literally 5 minutes before I started writing this, it occurred to me this could be great for CTF.

There are areas on both sides on raise platforms that are ideal for flag points... take a look and tell me what you think.
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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sektor2111
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:48 am

With a bit of love at paths it's doable. Flags probably can sit inside those central buildings after removing that yellow mud.

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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:03 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:48 am
Flags probably can sit inside those central buildings after removing that yellow mud.
Possibly, though I had 1 of 4 spots more in mind, that's above the ground a bit.
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:43 am

In current pathing stage those spots are not having all needed paths for moving there (one of zones) - look well, see where route is broken - an unique and broken route.
Zone which I was pointing has at least 3 routes making place for AlternatePaths and multiple attack directions not a predictive ambush in the same entry spot - I don't see where is the fun for ONE single road heading there, unless we are going to talk about whatever "jumpy attitude"...

If I'm looking at Teleporter3 colliding with that PlayerStart, here is 24/7 dumbness - What the heck is that thing for ? Why such settings ? Blocking own team ? Telefragging at spawn ? Collision crashes demanded on purpose ? The rest of Teleporting stuff is questioning as well - Allow hiding ? What for ? Sleeping ? Get a bed for that.

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OjitroC
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by OjitroC » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:33 am

In his readme, Simon West-Bulford says "This level is copyrighted by S.West-Bulford 2000. Authors may not use this level as a base to build additional levels unless they get specific permission from me." - contact details are provided in the readme.

If the flags are at ground level, then that would render the elevated areas largely superfluous as there would be no particular reason to go there - particularly the area of 'pillars' highlighted above by EG, as the access to those is tortuous. True they could be used for sniping but they are open and one can't cover all the entry points from there so it would be better to defend the flag from elsewhere.

Could possibly have the flag bases on top of the buildings on the large flat roof, which could then be covered by sniping from those 'pillars'.

One of the problems with turning a map designed and laid out for DM into a CTF map is whether the whole of the map is going to be used in CTF - will there be any dead areas where people don't need to go? If so, where and how significant?

Side note - if default servers don't 'allow' monsters then you're going to lose Ted the Titan plus the Mercs and so would need to find another purpose for those areas.
sektor2111 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:43 am
.. The rest of Teleporting stuff is questioning as well - Allow hiding ? What for ? Sleeping ? Get a bed for that.
Perhaps to avoid the nuclear rain?

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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:23 pm

Let me guess... I think EG wants some Player-Monster from whatever UTDMQ stuff (I believe allowed even in plain UT games) - let me do guessing again... another miserable package which would need fixed for preventing a mutators soup with similar named classes because changing names for assets it's impossible for "coders". And continuing guessing... this will be some Queen talking craps or muted, and having no fix for teleporting loops or eliminating another Queen, having similar size with original and then unable to roam in map out of QueenDest actors which are just loading extra-junks unused by Pawns and also that cannot be killed by certain projectiles due to collision used.

These packages are having the same issues everywhere and MORE issues in company of other monsters as long as they keep addressing a PlayerReplicationInfo which monsters are not using at all. That's why has to be converted into a CTF, target is more UNR fun files for "fun" not Maps, but maybe it's just me... and sometimes I'm wrong (Really ?)

A few times indeed was "fun"... I fired a redeemer for escaping and switching to translocator for quick escaping. Because weapon was Translocator, monster did not died and sent me a good projectile killing me and I've lost Flag. In next stages happened to see enemy monster-player taking Flag and running with it all day long turning CTF game into trash. Is this good ? No, but is much better to have more such maps for a complete mess and more frustrating instances as possible, and even more types of Monster-Player which won't do anything in CTFGame than bugging game. If maps are not set with Monster Paths for capturing flags for me these are not really funny. Original ScriptedPawn has limitations in hunting and in Navigating certain spots, also are limited in roaming. They need external assistance for bringing a Flag taken at their HomeFlag. How many users are having a clue how to do that ?
At least in one of them I could do some settings allowing Warlords to get Flags and even captures helping CTF game instead of frustrating player, they being objectives too as long as they can help their team to win matches.

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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:44 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:43 am
In current pathing stage those spots are not having all needed paths for moving there (one of zones) - look well, see where route is broken - an unique and broken route.
Zone which I was pointing has at least 3 routes making place for AlternatePaths and multiple attack directions not a predictive ambush in the same entry spot - I don't see where is the fun for ONE single road heading there
Mostly I was striving for a location for the flag that wasn't so close to the portals that traverse the maps from, also a good spot that could be defended from any of the 4 towers that are on the corners of each "base".

Also, getting up there may only have 1 path but getting down has 2, that's a survivable fall if you jump over the side.
OjitroC wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:33 am
In his readme, Simon West-Bulford says...
Uhm, where are you getting that from? I just opened the .zip for all 3 downloads on UA for the map, and none of them have a ReadMe... they all only have the map.
sektor2111 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:23 pm
Let me guess... I think EG wants some Player-Monster from whatever UTDMQ stuff
Possibly, it's certainly large enough a map for such a thing... though not necessarily. I don 't do that with every map.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by OjitroC » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:54 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:44 pm
Uhm, where are you getting that from? I just opened the .zip for all 3 downloads on UA for the map, and none of them have a ReadMe... they all only have the map.
I've had that map for a long time - here's the readme
TimeRipReadme.zip
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:16 am

Okay, but that presents other problems.

Listed email is: EZkeel@nikodemus.demon.co.uk

But that's to this site...
http://www.nikodemus.demon.co.uk/
...which no longer exists.

I'll see if I can find more current info.

Added: Okay, I've located 4 other email addresses for him (apparently he made maps for Rune too) so I'll try those.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by Red_Fist » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:59 am

Binary Space Partitioning

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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EZkeel » Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:31 am

Hey folks.
Just got an e-mail asking for permission to edit Time-Rip.
I really appreciate you reaching out, and apologize if it was a trial trying to find me! It's been 20 years !!
I happily give permission. Hope you enjoy it. :)

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Ozma777
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by Ozma777 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:10 am

still looks good to me as ctf possibility, my xmas map for the competition (a long time ago) should have been a domination map. It would have worked better, I'll see if I can update it eventually.

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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:03 pm

So, now that we have permission (and hopefully as a new member EZkeel will contribute more over time) let's get cracking on this map.... to see if it works at all for CTF.

Ideally I think we should try both proposed flag locations, to see which works best.
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:20 pm

Add missing PathNodes first and then think at AlternatePaths, to not forget setting up team starts.

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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by OjitroC » Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:35 pm

After that - possibly think about item placement as well?

Do you want bots setting off nuclear strikes, do you want nuclear strikes at all?

There's a pair of Unreal JumpBoots that could/should be replaced by UT ones.

In what I take to be healing rooms there are universal translators which won't work in UT (at least not by pressing F2).

Need more ZoneInfos to give player/bot location information?

When looking at PlayerStarts :
WallHitting: PlayerStart19 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
WallHitting: PlayerStart32 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.