Possible CTF conversion

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EvilGrins
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:22 pm

Despite having this map a REALLY long time, I haven't played it on the regular in awhile... so I overlooked this one aspect, or simply forgot about it:
OjitroC wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:58 pm
If you are thinking of putting the flag in the building (marked in yellow) where the floor is flooded then perhaps bear in mind that the entrance to the other 'side' of the map is close by
Turns out that's more of a problem than I thought. There are, as it happens, multiple time portals scattered over each time period... it's not just the one. So I further defend where I've placed the flag as no portal brings you that close to it, as you have to go up to get the flag, but it does provide multiple ways to escape to the other side once the flag is grabbed.

Decided to do some exploring on this one:
sektor2111 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:10 pm
Ahem... Prisoner X it's not escaping (unless is wandering around for a while...)
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There is needed some work in here...
EZkeel originally made this map for Unreal1 before converting to ut99, judging by screenshots he used. I was unaware of that room, or that there were 2 of them, so I decided to go ghost and check them out.
Image Image
So, the rooms are 1 to each side and fairly identical. Haven't gone looking yet for the teleport that gets you in there, but getting out is pretty simple.

You goto that circular pad...
Image
...and it pops you back on the map here:
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I'm not sure what the significance of that room is. There's a translator pad in each room, but as hitting F2 in ut99 is fairly pointless (as it doesn't work for reading those) I'm assuming it had something to do with the U1 version.
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by OjitroC » Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:27 pm

They are healing rooms - the teleporters to them are underwater and not that easy to find.

Well. they are not that easy to find when playing the map (obviously it's not too difficult to find them when using the Editor) - there's no reason a human player woud be aware of the healing rooms nor of the teleporters to them unless one had first explored all of the map before playing it (and been curious enough to go into the alcoves where they are located). So I'm not sure how useful they would be in CTF nor indeed how useful they would be to bots.

So the question is - do you want them to have a role in the CTF conversion? If so, you then need to ensure that the bots only use them when they need to (when they are low on health), which may be difficult?

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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:59 am

As it happens, there's like 14 teleports located all over the map as well, but I'm not too sure they all work.
OjitroC wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:27 pm
They are healing rooms - the teleporters to them are underwater and not that easy to find.

do you want them to have a role in the CTF conversion? If so, you then need to ensure that the bots only use them when they need to (when they are low on health), which may be difficult?
Might be less an issue with bots, as they won't know to stay in there while healing. They'll only stay in so long as it takes to get out.

Dealing with another inconsistency: The map has a tonnage of ammo for the FlakCannon... but there isn't a single FlakCannon anywhere on the map. Gotta decide if I wanna keep all that and if so, where to put the FlakCannons.

Need to check if there's other ammo on the map but not the weapons its for.
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by OjitroC » Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:51 am

EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:59 am
OjitroC wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:27 pm
They are healing rooms - the teleporters to them are underwater and not that easy to find.
do you want them to have a role in the CTF conversion? If so, you then need to ensure that the bots only use them when they need to (when they are low on health), which may be difficult?
Might be less an issue with bots, as they won't know to stay in there while healing. They'll only stay in so long as it takes to get out.
That's my point really. Do you want bots leaving the action to go underwater and swim to the teleporters to the healing rooms only to immediately leave that room (though as sektor has shown, there is no path out for bots at the moment)? All that takes time and means that one or more bots will be away from the main part of the map and so not attacking or defending.

The issue, as I say, is do those rooms have a role in CTF? Do they add anything? Might they not disrupt the flow of play and unbalance teams to too great an extent sometimes? As the human team leader would one want to go to a healing room and leave the bots to it? If the map is played solely by humans, then they may well be totally unaware of the existence of those rooms?

It did seem to me that the airstrikes were not of the same duration and intensity on both sides but I may be wrong on that (I haven't checked the coding of those events).

Automatically merged

EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:59 am
Dealing with another inconsistency: The map has a tonnage of ammo for the FlakCannon... but there isn't a single FlakCannon anywhere on the map. Gotta decide if I wanna keep all that and if so, where to put the FlakCannons.
Looking in the Editor, there are four UT Flak Cannons in the map.

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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:19 am

OjitroC wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:03 am
Do you want bots leaving the action to go underwater and swim to the teleporters to the healing rooms only to immediately leave that room (though as sektor has shown, there is no path out for bots at the moment)? All that takes time and means that one or more bots will be away from the main part of the map and so not attacking or defending.
I suppose if they're left there I could have those rooma pathed so bots don't stay in there. I'm only reluctant to remove the rooms as if I screw that up it can make the map unstable; have had past mixed results with removing large structures before.
OjitroC wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:03 am
The issue, as I say, is do those rooms have a role in CTF? Do they add anything?
Not really. The only thing I like about healing rooms is mainly for human players. CTF kinda being my jam, it's often annoying when you get back to base and your flag is gone so you have to stay safe while your team tries to get your flag back. Being able to duck into a room that will restore health, from various attacks from the other team to get their flag back, can have some advantages.
OjitroC wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:03 am
It did seem to me that the airstrikes were not of the same duration and intensity on both sides but I may be wrong on that
Interesting. Hadn't thought to time that, though if I had to guess I suspect the slight in the future side would take longer... what with damage and whatnot. Will check that out.
OjitroC wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:03 am
Looking in the Editor, there are four UT Flak Cannons in the map.
Ah, I was looking under "f" and not "UT". Oops...
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by OjitroC » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:58 am

EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:19 am
OjitroC wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:03 am
Do you want bots leaving the action to go underwater and swim to the teleporters to the healing rooms only to immediately leave that room (though as sektor has shown, there is no path out for bots at the moment)? All that takes time and means that one or more bots will be away from the main part of the map and so not attacking or defending.
I suppose if they're left there I could have those rooma pathed so bots don't stay in there. I'm only reluctant to remove the rooms as if I screw that up it can make the map unstable; have had past mixed results with removing large structures before.
Given that they are healing rooms, then one would want bots to stay in them long enough to heal to 100 health points.

If you don't want to use them, you just need to remove the teleporters to them then nobody can get to them - you don't need to remove the rooms from the map.

Alternatively you can ensure that there are no paths for bots underwater to the teleporters and then the bots won't go to them anyway (but humans would still use them).

It seems to me that it would be difficult to set up paths for bots to the teleporters in any case. Since the rooms are healing rooms, one would only use them when one's health is low - however one would need enough health to be able to swim to the teleporters without drowning - that's a decision with some considerable degree of jeopardy that only humans could make (and they would need to know the shortest route to the underwater teleporters in order to avoid drowning, depending on how much health they had when making the decision to swim to them). I'm not sure how one would do that for bots nor, indeed, whether it would be worth the effort.

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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:34 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:58 am
Alternatively you can ensure that there are no paths for bots underwater to the teleporters and then the bots won't go to them anyway (but humans would still use them).
Then it's probably okay as is... bots tend to drown in the water more than anything else, they never go near the teleports down there.
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by OjitroC » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:03 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:34 pm
OjitroC wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:58 am
Alternatively you can ensure that there are no paths for bots underwater to the teleporters and then the bots won't go to them anyway (but humans would still use them).
Then it's probably okay as is... bots tend to drown in the water more than anything else, they never go near the teleports down there.
But do you want the bots to drown though? Wouldn't it be better if the map were pathed so they could get out of the water but not go to the teleporters - also probably best to remove any pickups underwater.

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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:19 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:03 pm
But do you want the bots to drown though? Wouldn't it be better if the map were pathed so they could get out of the water but not go to the teleporters - also probably best to remove any pickups underwater.
No, don't want that... it is one thing, among others, I'll be mentioning to the guy who will most likely be pathing this when we get to that point.
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:40 am

OjitroC wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:56 pm
Another thing to consider is how the underwater areas are going to be used
Certain practicality for where I want flags is just above where those water ways are. As they say, the best CTF maps have more than 1 way to get to the flag... and the same can be said for ways to to escape once you capture the flag.

In this case, grab the flag and then jump over the side and land in the water; normal fall is survivable but it takes off a chunk of health the water spares you from losing. Also, briefly in the water slows a player down a bit while in it, gives the other team a slight chance of catching the fleeing flag thief.
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:38 am

Woow... 2+ months for a pathing task... Interesting...

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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:34 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:38 am
Woow... 2+ months for a pathing task... Interesting...
More like getting it ready for pathing... and admittedly not all of that has been spent on it.
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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:37 am

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Re: Possible CTF conversion

Post by EvilGrins » Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:38 am

For the record, I have not forgotten about this... I'm just very easily distracted.

There's also a skinning request I got from Delacroix I need to get back to.
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