CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

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EvilGrins
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CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:27 pm

It's problematic on a moral level to decide what to delete from the LevelInfo part of a map edit, because I like to credit the original mapper as well as whoever assisted me on the map edit (even though Nelsona repeatedly tells me I don't need to credit him... I do anyway) but as so many UT sites no longer exist I frequently debate whether or not to leave the no longer existing website's details the original mapper had at the time they made the map.

Anywho..
Image
...this is a symmetrical map, identical bases using a basic castle structure. The central area of each base houses the flag, all the various weapons and ammo, plus armors and whatnot are all there. There's a few teleports to gain access to specialized gear, like the redeemer that's at the top of the central structure.

I put a UTDMT in the fenced off area in front of each castle, so it has a wide range to throw boulders but is fundamentally stuck in that pen. Inside each castle proper, there are 2 UTDMS. In keeping with the castle theme, I switched their projectiles to arrows.

The map had random monsters already on it, sharks in the river/moat between the bases, nali cows (which birth baby cows) all over the place, and Nali Priests in a centralized cavern beneath the map. All of those had insane amounts of health, which is fairly common as most monsters do not respawn and mappers that like to use monsters want them to survive awhile. That being said, I brought the health levels down significantly... they're still high but it's possible to kill them now for anyone that wants to spend time doing that.

The cavern below the map was filled with Nali Priests, about 15, but I removed them. Switched them with a few things before settling on more UTDMS...
Image
...5 to be exact: 2 on Green, 2 on Yellow, and 1 spare for the heck of it.

There are paths leading down to the cavern on the far right and left of each castle, as well as teleports on the far ends of the moat along side passages. So players can get down there but UTDMS can also get out and onto the surface. I gave most of them standard Skaarj projectiles, which Skaarj are immune to, so down there is a constant battle and any player that heads down there runs the risk of being shot or stabbed. The extra UTDMS with no team affiliation I gave Skaarj Queen projectiles, which can kill other Skaarj, because he's got nobody on his side and I felt he needed an edge.

While folks from numerous forums were helpful in providing names for me to use on Skaarj · https://unreal-games.livejournal.com/144928.html · I wound up naming most of the UTDMS on this map after the original mapper, Nelsona, and 4 random players on the ut99.org forum.

Usual Suspects:
.u - /system
.umx - /music
.unr - /maps
.utx - /textures

Enjoy!
https://www.mediafire.com/file/kb7ryh3r ... ghbors.zip
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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OjitroC
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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by OjitroC » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:40 pm

Flattered that you should name a Skaarj after me :)

Nice spammy map given the underground carnage (though the log spam is not so nice - still can't have it all!) - can be played just trying to take out all the SBs.

Pedantic note - something to consider in future - the arrows cause Skaarj warrior types self-damage. This can't be addressed by using the ReducedDamage property as the arrow doesn't have a unique damage type (I think they have the damage type 'shot' in the code but other weapons use this as well). It might be possible to subclasss the arrow and give a unique damage type though.

I suppose the only value in leaving the mapper's website details in is that someone can try to find it on the Wayback Machine should they be interested.

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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by EvilGrins » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:34 am

OjitroC wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:40 pm
the arrows cause Skaarj warrior types self-damage
Hadn't noticed that, though I try to keep an eye open for it ever since the latest release (if 10+ years can be considered "latest") of MonsterMadness they sped up the Skaarj so they were running so fast they were literally running into their own projectiles before they released them. Because of that I try and pay attention to any type of Skaarj shooting, though I hadn't seen what you speak of.

I'll check again.
OjitroC wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:40 pm
can be played just trying to take out all the SBs
Hard to do when they keep respawning.

Does no one try and capture the flag in CTF anymore?!?
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by OjitroC » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:47 am

EvilGrins wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:34 am
Hadn't noticed that, though I try to keep an eye open for it ever since the latest release (if 10+ years can be considered "latest") of MonsterMadness they sped up the Skaarj so they were running so fast they were literally running into their own projectiles before they released them. Because of that I try and pay attention to any type of Skaarj shooting, though I hadn't seen what you speak of.

I'll check again.
You should see blood when they fire arrows. It's difficult to do in that map because of the large number of 'monsters' but you can cylce through them until you come to an arrow-firing SB and then see what happens to its health. You could also set up a map with a couple of them in and see what happens. It's something I noticed some time ago when giving the Skaarj warrior types different projectiles.

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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:36 am

OjitroC wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:40 pm
Pedantic note - something to consider in future - the arrows cause Skaarj warrior types self-damage. This can't be addressed by using the ReducedDamage
Last time when I posted about such problems at monsters, some of those not really playing UT with monsters said that I'm talking crap... Now tell to those smarty geniuses that I do not talk trash in any way, but I used monsters in thousands of games and I'm talking based on a direct experience not from dreams.
If Sliths would not be immune at "corroded" damage and projectiles educated for team-games, all Sliths would be killed by themselves - they are USELESS.
These team-monsters are not READY, are just trash files as long as nobody thinks at these issues which exist for real, and even in EXU are described a lot of such issues.
UTDMT is firing a stock rock projectile which will never kill another Titan but there is a bHateOurOwn variable which doesn't make any sense after all, they will fight all day long without hurting each-other and problem occurs at Skaarj too. It's why I changed packages discarding mismatch versions issues (not packages provided with these edited maps) as long as "original" packages with these monsters are mainly useless. It's why I can play these maps out of spam and monsters improved - including using Re-Spawn sound which was a myth and self skinning support team-based.

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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by OjitroC » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:30 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:36 am
If Sliths would not be immune at "corroded" damage and projectiles educated for team-games, all Sliths would be killed by themselves - they are USELESS.
It's not germane to this thread but I don't really understand the point about Sliths being 'useless'. They are immune to DamageType 'coroded' and so can be used in Slime Zones but, since their projectiles do not have a DamageType, they are not immune to their own projectiles. Is this the point? But I don't get the reference to 'team-games'?

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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:00 pm

Of course, you get it - but you are kidding; for making things more clear and doing redundant posting, if you have TEAM Monsters as Sliths/Skaarj/Titans etc., intended to eliminate other enemy Sliths/Skaarj/Titans protecting even carrier, they are USELESS as long as their projectiles won't do any damage to similar classes - when damagetype is used. Sliths are even immune at corroding and if you are removing immunity, they will hurt themselves - check some other UT_BioGel types, exactly like Skaarj with arrows - it's a dumb stage which I witnessed X times. For the record, this is SlithProjectile :P :

Code: Select all

class SlithProjectile extends Projectile;
...
function Explode(vector HitLocation, vector HitNormal)
{
	local FlameBall f;

  	HurtRadius(damage * DrawScale, DrawScale * 200, 'corroded', MomentumTransfer, HitLocation);
	Destroy();	
}
Read it well... DamageType is HARD-CODED not defined as a default property.
It's why they can be used in SinglePlayer, Coop, MonsterHunt etc., but... even if your custom CTF is supporting types of Team Monsters they have NO USE in plain combat formula. That's why I wrote NsMonster, it's changed in all points. Maybe next version will have team self-skinning support - like Bots.

Ps: MonsterHunt kill messages are not having details about who kills who regarding to monsters. It's why when a Skaarj is killing itself, message it's shown like two skaarj were fighting. I could see this X times.
Last edited by sektor2111 on Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by OjitroC » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:20 pm

Oh I see - I haven't come across Slith as Team Monsters - yes, now I get the point.

Personally, I'm not given to playing with monsters on my team (that is when I do play team games, which is not a lot TBH), much prefer bots (Mbots especially) that follow my orders.

Yeah, the messages with the UTDM monsters are annoying - can get a 2MB log after playing this map for 10/15 minutes - still it's fun for a while.

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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:26 pm

Why I'm optimistic and pretty much glad ? These dumb EPIC things can be conformed and using... other good codes written by themselves. By example a new Slith monster can have a code used in Krall - and Skaarj too. Because a Skaarj can do self-damage if is firing and running fast. And then... such maps can be used out of X tons of spam-log or unwanted "deadly" events.

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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by OjitroC » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:28 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:00 pm
Read it well... DamageType is HARD-CODED not defined as a default property.
Yes, I didn't read it well - I looked through the code and didn't see that :oops:

Back to the map - I got this odd crash
Spoiler
Show
Critical: FLightManager::SetupForActor
Critical: URender::DrawLodMesh
Critical: (LodMesh Botpack.BioGelm)
Critical: DrawMesh
Critical: URender::DrawActorSprite
Critical: URender::DrawFrame
Critical: URender::DrawWorld
Critical: UGameEngine::Draw
Critical: UWindowsViewport::Repaint
Critical: UWindowsClient::Tick
Critical: ClientTick
Critical: UGameEngine::Tick
Critical: UpdateWorld
Critical: MainLoop
Exit: Executing UObject::StaticShutdownAfterError
Exit: Executing UWindowsClient::ShutdownAfterError
Exit: UGalaxyAudioSubsystem::ShutdownAfterError
Log: DirectDraw End Mode
Exit: UD3D9RenderDevice::ShutdownAfterError
Exit: Double fault in object ShutdownAfterError
... odd because I'm not sure where the Biogel comes from as I was using StuffSwapper and swapped the UT weapons for Counter Strike weapons.

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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:41 pm

Yep... textures lol - I'll bet on 1$ that is about Monster's Skin... wait... no bets, it's obvious...

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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by OjitroC » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:17 am

Playing this map on the Red team with just me and no bots on Blue (so just the blue SBs and Titan) - the opposing Blue Team monsters are not interested in me at all, to the point where they will not attack even if fired on.

Got this error in the Log : "NoLostBadSet: Interval value in seconds must be set bigger than 1.000000 or else this Actor doesn't do anything."
sektor2111 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:41 pm
Yep... textures lol - I'll bet on 1$ that is about Monster's Skin... wait... no bets, it's obvious...
Which monster skin would that be? What about a skin would cause that kind of error? Why does the error message refer to drawing the LodMesh of the Botpack.BioGelm? Why would the renderer be trying to draw the BioGel LodMesh when there is no BioGel in the map?

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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by EvilGrins » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:26 am

OjitroC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:17 am
Playing this map on the Red team with just me and no bots on Blue (so just the blue SBs and Titan) - the opposing Blue Team monsters are not interested in me at all, to the point where they will not attack even if fired on.
Must be a mutator issue, because that doesn't make any sense. If you're not on the same team they still should attack you.
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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by sektor2111 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:14 am

Got it - NoLost was an old version - another default property it should be 3-4 that interval or else it won't make any move. That one was a backup in case of an evil situation - it's not the case for being used here, but it won't hurt.
OjitroC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:17 am
Why would the renderer be trying to draw the BioGel LodMesh when there is no BioGel in the map?
Maybe because the mesh is used by other projectile - run-time actor ? I believe this one could not be rendered well - skin bugged the stage supposed to mask it but not masking or such bad timing ?

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Re: CTF-UTDM-BadNeighbors

Post by OjitroC » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:15 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:26 am
Must be a mutator issue, because that doesn't make any sense. If you're not on the same team they still should attack you.
Played from the Editor (which is just the basic UT with no mutators) or started normally with a few mutators (none of which should have an impact), the result is the same - no action, no interest from the opposing teams, no SBs attacking each other (not even the non team Skaarj) - just one or two SBs killing cows. Of course, this is just me playing on the Red team with no bots on either team.
sektor2111 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:14 am
Maybe because the mesh is used by other projectile - run-time actor ? I believe this one could not be rendered well - skin bugged the stage supposed to mask it but not masking or such bad timing ?
None of the skins (SB, Titan or Cow) have bMasked=True. No run-time actors - none of the Counter Strike weapons I use have projectiles. So very odd - maybe, just maybe it was a game started from the Editor when the SBs would have been able to pick up UT weapons and possibly attempt to fire the Bio rifle - I don't think so but it is possible. Still it's a crash that has only happened once so not that serious.