CTF-Hiekka

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jmartin
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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by jmartin » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:41 am

I like it.

Nice and clean.

Not too huge so the play action is constant even with just two bots.

Water – refreshing.

But what does "Hiekka" mean?

I looked it up and it's either a cotton tee shirt, some kind of sand, or a Finnish Rock band? :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZpGoSNl3mY

Nice job SkYlInE :tu:

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sektor2111
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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by sektor2111 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:15 am

Now I'm thinking which version should be in my playground...
Initial version having a few ugly points in navigation is solved and it works.
This one which needs removal of some specs because swJumpPads are pointing routes back (not often, or they might be rarely used) as well, they might need to be removed or things a bit adjusted.
NotRecommendThisSpec.PNG
This is what I'm talking about. Combatant trying central route for going down is thrown back. SwJumpad should not have a back route unless pawn goes crazy.
Tech On:
These are said specs as data not lines:
- ReachSpec: 1601 : Start = swJumpPad5 End = swJumpPad4 ColRadius = 70 ColHeight = 70 ReachFlag = 9 (1walk+8jump) Dist = 576 Pruned = 0.
- ReachSpec: 1636 : Start = swJumpPad11 End = swJumpPad10 ColRadius = 70 ColHeight = 70 ReachFlag = 9 Dist = 545 Pruned = 0.
They can be unloaded from Paths and upStreamPaths then wrapping specs if Engine still does these - not when a limited range is used, or when in 227 we claim ProscribedPaths.
Tech Off:

In other hand, both of them are just... superb. This is the sort of simplicity needed in UE1.
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SkYlInE
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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by SkYlInE » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:36 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:15 am
Now I'm thinking which version should be in my playground...
Initial version having a few ugly points in navigation is solved and it works.
This one which needs removal of some specs because swJumpPads are pointing routes back (not often, or they might be rarely used) as well, they might need to be removed or things a bit adjusted.
NotRecommendThisSpec.PNG
This is what I'm talking about. Combatant trying central route for going down is thrown back. SwJumpad should not have a back route unless pawn goes crazy.
Tech On:
These are said specs as data not lines:
- ReachSpec: 1601 : Start = swJumpPad5 End = swJumpPad4 ColRadius = 70 ColHeight = 70 ReachFlag = 9 (1walk+8jump) Dist = 576 Pruned = 0.
- ReachSpec: 1636 : Start = swJumpPad11 End = swJumpPad10 ColRadius = 70 ColHeight = 70 ReachFlag = 9 Dist = 545 Pruned = 0.
They can be unloaded from Paths and upStreamPaths then wrapping specs if Engine still does these - not when a limited range is used, or when in 227 we claim ProscribedPaths.
Tech Off:

In other hand, both of them are just... superb. This is the sort of simplicity needed in UE1.
It is true. It would be a good way to set swjump in two directions, otherwise you will be pushed back to the top.
jmartin wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:41 am
I like it.

Nice and clean.

Not too huge so the play action is constant even with just two bots.

Water – refreshing.

But what does "Hiekka" mean?

I looked it up and it's either a cotton tee shirt, some kind of sand, or a Finnish Rock band? :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZpGoSNl3mY

Nice job SkYlInE :tu:
Im glad that you like it :tu:
Hiekka is the name of my favourite map in Counter Strike Source (but i will belong to Unreal Tournament forever :twisted: ) , thats why i chose the name and it is a desert style map thats why i took the egyptian style here.

i would be glad if this map got a chance to be on public servers to give the mapvotes a new look :D

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sektor2111
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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by sektor2111 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:47 am

It will be after one of cases:
#1 - Solving said specs - Perhaps others nearby ramps;
#2 - Editing this returning another map-file.

Yes, it is suitable for public network play.

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SkYlInE
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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by SkYlInE » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:52 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:47 am
It will be after one of cases:
#1 - Solving said specs - Perhaps others nearby ramps;
#2 - Editing this returning another map-file.

Yes, it is suitable for public network play.
Im gonna play a bit in the Editor, maybe i find a good solution

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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by sektor2111 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:24 am

You can remove these too, they are not needed.

Code: Select all

Duplicated: Brush100 was found 2 times.
Duplicated: Brush229 was found 2 times.
Duplicated: Brush232 was found 2 times.
Duplicated: Brush233 was found 2 times.
For paths there is not needed finding solutions, just apply "unreachable" rules.
HkkStg_0.PNG
Also you can reconsider placement of swJumpad actors - placed normally not higher and trying to prevent route hijack when Pawn is kidnapped from its desired road.
HkkStg_1.PNG
It's why I was always asking for manual work support in Editor of these paths, it returns a better map and nothing damaging.
In second image there can be visible at least 4 jerky specs which won't really help navigation... 3 from swJumpad which is aiming target point not lower connected nodes and that ramp which I have small doubts about that jumpy spec.
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TankBeef
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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by TankBeef » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:38 pm

SkYlInE wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:36 am
Hiekka is the name of my favourite map in Counter Strike Source (but i will belong to Unreal Tournament forever :twisted: )
Interesting, I thought all CS maps were called Dust :P

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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by sektor2111 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:12 pm

I forgot something...
Glasses - still have "ONE-WAY" View-Option. D3D, D3D9 - 436/440. It's not like in 469b these are translucent for real as long as 469b for me was rendering coronas through opaque walls :wtf: . Reality is shown in D3D9 and even D3D using 436...

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OjitroC
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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by OjitroC » Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:49 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:12 pm
I forgot something...
Glasses - still have "ONE-WAY" View-Option. D3D, D3D9 - 436/440. It's not like in 469b these are translucent for real as long as 469b for me was rendering coronas through opaque walls :wtf: . Reality is shown in D3D9 and even D3D using 436...
With OpenGL in both 436 and 469b the glass panels render OK - you can see the glass from both sides :noidea So different renderers render that glass differently, which is odd.

For me, with D3D9 in 469b the glass panels render OK as well - as they do with D3D9 in 451 as well.

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SkYlInE
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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by SkYlInE » Sat May 01, 2021 9:34 pm

TankBeef wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:38 pm
SkYlInE wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:36 am
Hiekka is the name of my favourite map in Counter Strike Source (but i will belong to Unreal Tournament forever :twisted: )
Interesting, I thought all CS maps were called Dust :P
You are definately wrong :P
sektor2111 wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:24 am
You can remove these too, they are not needed.

Code: Select all

Duplicated: Brush100 was found 2 times.
Duplicated: Brush229 was found 2 times.
Duplicated: Brush232 was found 2 times.
Duplicated: Brush233 was found 2 times.
For paths there is not needed finding solutions, just apply "unreachable" rules.
HkkStg_0.PNG
Also you can reconsider placement of swJumpad actors - placed normally not higher and trying to prevent route hijack when Pawn is kidnapped from its desired road.
HkkStg_1.PNG
It's why I was always asking for manual work support in Editor of these paths, it returns a better map and nothing damaging.
In second image there can be visible at least 4 jerky specs which won't really help navigation... 3 from swJumpad which is aiming target point not lower connected nodes and that ramp which I have small doubts about that jumpy spec.
How can i see which brushes those are? i really have no clue about this.

Do i understand you right that you want the bots to jump down in the mid section near the jumppads?

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sektor2111
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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by sektor2111 » Sun May 02, 2021 7:24 am

Nah, there are other alternatives down, look well at image and understand it. Jumpad from top should NOT HAVE a connection to the bottom (Yellow in 469 Editor) one because pawn is thrown back up if wants that way for some reason. There are other connections passing through these jumpads and kidnapping pawn because jumpad - like any teleporter is recommended to have only ONE PATH -> Destination, not in the middle of road acting like a PathNode for other routes than main planned one. Teleporter responds at bOneWay settings and then in mid area bot spawned and trying to gain flak won't get thrown because he wanted Flak and not going up. There is needed some fine tuning. Of course, some of those "picture-boys" around were clapping hands unable to figure these masked issues "two bots were working fine". Seriously how did you draw this conclusion, Mr. J ? This is kidnapping not navigation even if it looks normal, it's NOT.

Glass... Never mind I solved glass, like I said - I selected ALL glass textures (8 Surfaces)- some of them weren't set properly. After doing same settings to all of them and rebuilding, all goes Translucent, and no, I don't have trust in 469b render - so I'm not playing with that, just using Editor for... little tiny small fixes.
This is result...
Hkk2_Edit.png
This was initially Hiekka][
Hkk2_Orig.png
If you click on image and do a click-request to "view image", better, not at forum's stupid zoom you can even see which texture is different - it's INSIDE glass because... there are two glasses, lol. That one is evil, light is not hitting that surface and render shows it darker.
And again like I said and I already demonstrated in 469b, my dynamic corona is shown through walls in a few seconds later after previously it was completely invisible. After figuring these with 469b I considered that not worth wasting time with updating anything.
This is the detail where I figured that are more surfaces than two.
DetailHint.PNG
For paths, I have to show you something if you understand what's the arrows meaning in 469 or 436+XC.
SplitRoutes.PNG
And these are split because of this detail
SplitRoutes_Zoom.PNG
Because all logic arrows heading to flak are not passing through JumpPad, Bot goes around it taking Flak - and this is more entertaining in game when you get closer in mid area. If enemy is up, they are going up, if they want Flak they get flak, instead of going up being hijacked because swJumpad does the SHORTEST route to the flak too not only upper. Either way I see them getting Flak and after that jumping up which I did not see before.

Why Jumpad and PathNode have a single spec ? No, I did not manually deleted it, I told to Goblin my wishes (sometimes he listens your requests)...
Hkk_OneWayNeeds.PNG
Entertaining somehow...

For my personal next quick coding episode toward these private fixes I have to write a small actor in map without having gaming or net purposes, just hosting a comment with data used. Here by example due to these swJumpads for preventing connections from trashing Bots I used 680 ScanRange in UT's Editor 436 and building with XC_EditorAdds from XCGE v21. If in future I will want improvements I will need to know what was about before for not resuming and rethinking everything. Why this work ? Because this map and others similar are beautiful jewels in all the way.
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OjitroC
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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by OjitroC » Sun May 02, 2021 9:58 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:24 am
Glass... Never mind I solved glass, like I said - I selected ALL glass textures (8 Surfaces)- some of them weren't set properly. After doing same settings to all of them and rebuilding, all goes Translucent, and no, I don't have trust in 469b render - so I'm not playing with that, just using Editor for... little tiny small fixes.
This is result...
Hkk2_Edit.png
That's interesting as that's the way it appears without any fixes in
436 with OpenGL
451 with D3D9
469b with OpenGL and D3D9

Which just goes to show, I suppose, that there is no one reality - different people see different things.
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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by sektor2111 » Sun May 02, 2021 10:08 am

Do I really need to repeat 100 times that TEXTURES WERE DIFFERENT and I was using and I'm USING Always D3D D3D9 and 436 ?
These textures must have THE SAME settings. Like here - all Translucent - Even masked...
Glasses_Lol.PNG
And "Da Game"
AllBulletproof.png
All Transparent for ALL renders and All solid as a rock - entirely high quality bullet-proof glass.

In CTF-Command it's shown another way: using invisible collision hulls and... LIGHTS over glasses or else they were nowhere with them - in that time all new renders were NONE, did not exist so they did things D3D compatible even before the "update" 451b to be released. If next renders were "fixing" these rules, all are clapping hands but stock renders are telling the story as it is and no other way.
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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by OjitroC » Sun May 02, 2021 12:24 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 10:08 am
Do I really need to repeat 100 times that TEXTURES WERE DIFFERENT and I was using and I'm USING Always D3D D3D9 and 436 ?
These textures must have THE SAME settings.. If next renders were "fixing" these rules, all are clapping hands but stock renders are telling the story as it is and no other way.
I understand that you always use D3D/D3D9 and 436 ..... But if those panels render correctly in 436 with OpenGL, in 451 with OpenGL and D3D9 and in 469b with OpenGL and D3D9 then doesn't that suggest that the stock renderers (D3D/D3D9 in 436) are deficient in that respect and that perhaps the story they tell is not the 'real' one?

I merely point this out so that, should anyone not see those panels rendered correctly, they can just change their renderer (if they can) rather than attempt a 'fix' which they may not be able to do.

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Re: CTF-Hiekka

Post by sektor2111 » Sun May 02, 2021 3:08 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 12:24 pm
they can just change their renderer (if they can) rather than attempt a 'fix' which they may not be able to do.
Too bad that render needs to be changed for a stupid polyflag... I thought that anybody can click on bUnlit flag of polygon "inside" glass and rebuild map normally. It simply works in a plain UT after a new install without any add and update :? .
OjitroC wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 12:24 pm
are deficient in that respect and that perhaps the story they tell is not the 'real' one?
The real story: IF NO UPDATE would be ever done, these would be trashed, simple as that. These are doable as they should - including stupid BurgerWars "bugs-copied" series. It's all doable - mouse handling skill is needed I have to admit :ironic: . If EPIC had glasses (and are not the best mappers) you can have these too in original.
There is no lightning on the other side and so polygon is not under lightning "attack" and they are logically (EPIC's logic) dark. If new renders are more "forgiving" to me that's not an excuse at all.
If I'm mentally retarded when is coming to Level Design, this doesn't means that I don't know anything about surfaces and what they do when you have bad settings/options. I made enough cubed maps, this giving me a bit of experience for understanding what is about here and there.

Another nice, good looking map was doing some HOMS on whatever floor. Surface was translucent and supposed a mirror. Because it was translucent and behind floor polygon was The Void, all went into a "nice semi-HOM" turning into crap a good looking thing. I solved problem, I'm using map and... it's all fine. In a local match that thing was not that ugly, but On-Line and using my net client install that map was annoying.

Resuming:
- CTF-Hiekka whatever can be done having all GLASSES being glasses - everywhere in all UT install types;
- Pathing loops are mainly vanished and Flak is often seen at enemies to not forget "sky attack" when they come through that hole landing on UT_JumpBoots :lol2: ;
- perhaps a Translocator option is good from UDamage area to the top - I'm thinking if they won't be too smart at this point...
Last edited by sektor2111 on Sun May 02, 2021 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.