Need some advice on mapping

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EvilGrins
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Re: Need some advice on mapping

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:51 am

Delacroix wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:40 am
Sorry... had to.
No, no you didn't...
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...but i'm glad you did.
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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UnrealWarrior
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Re: Need some advice on mapping

Post by UnrealWarrior » Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:12 am

Well, It's a new year! Happy ((late)) Christmas and Happy ((late)) new year!

So, After the first map, I went on and build two other maps, I haven't finished these map yet too, and that's because this "conflict of ideas" that happens all the time.

You see, Whenever I wanna build something, I need a theme for the map, then a "vision" of a section and then I go from there. Most of the time, then, the map quickly gets out of hand and becomes massive, and I have to go back and remove a lot of it just to make a smaller map. (to not end up with a complicated map)

Not only this, but I seems to lack ideas...Like ideas about how these temples/bases/places look like, I don't what resources I should use/take a look to get more ideas
For example:

I'm trying to make a room let's say, I know there gonna be a lot of enemies in that room, this room will have the upper level, and the bottom one. you need to clear your way to go up and press a button or something.
Everytime I try to make something like this, either I ended up with a massive useless space or a tiny room, or just plain ugly. especially when it comes to rooms with enemies.

Another example:
If you know what it looks like, you can make it, that's a problem for me. let's see...Bases!
You need to know what bases have, like rooms, there's the generator room, there's the armory, there's some room for experiments...etc. you see that I don't have creative ideas, with those in mind, you can make good stuff. I'm talking single player of course (still applies to anything).

I'll upload photos soon...
Edit, added screenshots.
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Hellkeeper
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Re: Need some advice on mapping

Post by Hellkeeper » Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:29 am

Here's a protip : post the screenshots in your post as pictures. Having to download shots is an additionnal step most people won't take. Remember there's thousands of maps out there, you need to grab the player's attention immediately and pictures are the best way to do it.
You must construct additional pylons.

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OjitroC
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Re: Need some advice on mapping

Post by OjitroC » Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:26 pm

UnrealWarrior wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:12 am
... I seems to lack ideas...Like ideas about how these temples/bases/places look like, I don't what resources I should use/take a look to get more ideas
Have you tried looking at and playing other single player maps and campaigns? There are a lot of good ones out there, both in terms of design and 'gameplay'. Of course, you can look at maps other than SP to get ideas on the design and layout of specific forms of buildings and places. Look at some RL buildings as well in the flesh and in photos/videos.

Have you looked through all the texture packages you have for ideas on different textures to use?
UnrealWarrior wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:12 am
You see, Whenever I wanna build something, I need a theme for the map, then a "vision" of a section and then I go from there. Most of the time, then, the map quickly gets out of hand and becomes massive, and I have to go back and remove a lot of it just to make a smaller map. (to not end up with a complicated map)
I don't think this is necessarily a problem in itself (that is, overall size of the map) as, if you think it is too large, you can always split it into two or more maps if there are places to do so that would make sense (doors, lifts and similar points are often used as the link point between one map and the next).

Looking at the two maps you posted, lighting is important to create atmosphere and to mimic 'reality' and those maps have uniform lighting.

I would say that, as a whole, the spaces are mostly too large - they're uniformly large across a map and they tend to be rectangular as well - variety in the size (length, breadth and height) and shape of a space is important, but then you have recognised that. It is often not possible to determine what the function of a particular room or space is from its form - that is, its size, layout, the materials from which it is constructed and its decoration - so think about this aspect and how you can achieve it.

Again the textures used seem to be all default textures and to some extent they are used haphazardly. There is liltte in the way of decorative features. Maybe it is time to look beyond default textures - unless you want to recreate a Nali world for example, then using those default textures is OK. Try to keep things simple but coherent - the textures are the construction materials and decorations of your spaces - what materials would be used in what places in a room or corridor? When would construction materials logically change for structural or decorative reasons?

Setting aside the gameplay, in designing spaces (both in the sense of the map as a whole and in relation to individual 'parts' of the map), form should bear some relationship to function (domestic spaces will be small compared to industrial or storage spaces - corridors and linking rooms should similarly related in size to the type of building they are in). Religious spaces may be a variety of scales and don't need to be uniformly grand, though they can be of course if you wish them to be. Decoration and 'stuff' in those spaces helps to give an indication of their function and a greater sense of the uniqueness of a space.

If these maps are part of an intended SP campaign then the story should largely dictate the form of the maps (I think - though I am not an expert - this is my opinion based on observation). The story is important but, in SP, the creation of interesting and absorbing environments is equally important - for this see A Friend In Need, The Vale:Evelyn and the Savage Lands Demo as recent examples of well executed and gripping stories and maps.

Finally have another read through of the earlier responces in this thread and have a look at some SP campaigns to see how other authors have addressed the questions you've raised.

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UnrealWarrior
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Re: Need some advice on mapping

Post by UnrealWarrior » Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:07 pm

It's that time again! Reviving old threads from the dead with some new stuff :D

I was making this map since January, it's a mix of DM-Deck16 and DM-Technika(I think?), think of it as a discount Deck16][:
Screens:
https://imgur.com/a/LHlITIW

Note that I've added more lighting in the map, these screenshots are from yesterday, still experimenting with lighting, with I'm more focusing on getting with my level design and overall, I haven't done with it.
Again, this is not the best map ever, I put some thoughts and efforts onto it, let's see what you guys think about it...
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Aspide
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Re: Need some advice on mapping

Post by Aspide » Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:40 am

It's pretty good, I like some of the details you added and the layout can make for some fun DM matches, there are some issues but it's understandable since the map is incomplete:
-The lava unreal logo doesn't have its textures align
-Lots of movers without textures
-There's a sphere brush that most likely is the one causing the movers beneath to flicker (I would replace the sphere brush with a Moon or Moon2 or Moon3 decoration, sphere brushes cause too many BSP issues)
-The lava is not actually lava
-No Music
-The skybox looks incomplete


The lighting of the map is pretty good, however is always a good idea to play around with different colors to give the map more richness without making the map into a multi-color nightmare, it always has to make sense considering the light sources.

Anyway if you have any questions feel free to ask me :tu: , this is a nice map :gj:
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OjitroC
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Re: Need some advice on mapping

Post by OjitroC » Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:21 am

Yes, plays well - good variety of different sized and shaped spaces, which make for different types of action - easy to move around most of the map - some z-axis action in some areas as well. So the overall design and layout is fine - personally not keen on the rock texture used in some of the walls of the lava area nor, indeed, the concrete blocks which end in a thin point (structurally not a good idea but that's probably just me being pedantic).

So, yes, it's pretty good :gj:

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NemesisNeS
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Re: Need some advice on mapping

Post by NemesisNeS » Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:07 am

Well after getting away from the start point and roaming around the maps, I have to say I am impressed with the usage of some of the not so often used textures. That was greatly appreciated and fresh to see. Other than that, the maps plays pretty well, even managed to go on a bit of an overkill mode.

Image

Now for the stuff you probably already heard but so far I like the fact that the bots aren't entirely stationary or just stuck on stupid as I have seen on other maps... no I'm not going to name which ones. Like I stated earlier on but both and future maps would be pretty neat to have various spawn points for bots and players alike. Number two, I can clearly see this map working as a SP map, maybe even working it's way into MH at a later time, or even for a SP-campaign. I did run Monster Defense with both maps (for testing purposes of course) and I gotta admit, I had a good run for my money. (Sadly I didn't get to snag a screenshot of that one, I'll do that later if not sometime tomorrow on my downtime at the office) Next, and the one thing I truly test for on any map that I test are mutators. Most mutators work well with both maps, (especially true with DM-Ass, which made me extremely happy to see. Overall for a first attempt, I gotta say this again, but I am pretty damned impressed.

I haven't tried mapping myself, but I dabble mostly with creating mutators albeit via code and I will admit that I was greatly impressed that at least two out of three mutators that I am working on actually worked well with your maps. The third is something new that I am trying out though I am not sure IF I'm ever going to get it to work properly. Anyway, enough about my crap, keep up the awesome work and continue working on map making. :tu:
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Delacroix
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Re: Need some advice on mapping

Post by Delacroix » Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:38 pm

UnrealWarrior wrote:
Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:07 pm
DM-Ass
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I'm so sorry...

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Ubir4
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Re: Need some advice on mapping

Post by Ubir4 » Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:00 pm

UnrealWarrior wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:53 am
You guys rock! Thank you so much!!! I'll be back later to answer your replies guys, it's been really helpful :)

I made this video showing my progress so far:

https://youtu.be/Gd-dLy1v62c
A nice video, showing the work being done, and the caption shows the beauty of the ideal.

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Neon_Knight
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Re: Need some advice on mapping

Post by Neon_Knight » Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:43 pm

Perhaps this checklist may help you with your map?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14120
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ProTip 3: Only the people that do nothing but criticize don't make mistakes. Do things. Make mistakes. Learn from them. And screw those who do nothing but throw poison and criticize.
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UnrealWarrior
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Re: Need some advice on mapping

Post by UnrealWarrior » Fri May 20, 2022 4:10 pm

Yo!
DM-Ass has gotten way bigger and way detailed than last time you guys saw it. I didn't work on it all the time as I got more stuff to do irl, wish I had more time though...
Anyways, Here's some pictures:



I feel like I tried to put as much details as possible...Plus my maps(some I didn't released) looks more like singleplayer maps, some of you guys already pointed that out.
I still have some problem putting two floors without making the entire look big, like making a good flow between two level (upper floor, and the bottom one).

Hope you guys like this one, it's almost complete, and thanks for the help! without you guys, I would've probably stuck making cubes and doors and call it a map lol.
"We have nothing to fear but fear of tigers"

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