MH-INF-HollywoodHolocaust

Tutorials and discussions about Mapping - Introduce your own ones!
Buggie
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MH-INF-HollywoodHolocaust

Post by Buggie » Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:05 am

Conversion for monsterhunt this map:
https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... 03f98.html
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Beta2:
MH-inf-hollywoodholocaustBeta2.zip
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Last edited by Buggie on Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Buggie
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Re: MH-INF-HollywoodHolocaust

Post by Buggie » Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:06 am

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Buggie
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Re: MH-INF-HollywoodHolocaust

Post by Buggie » Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:43 pm

Gameplay on original map in Duke Nukem 3D:

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esnesi
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Re: MH-INF-HollywoodHolocaust

Post by esnesi » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:10 am

Frgn awesome, thanks for developing and sharing!
Lots of memories on here!

My suggestion would be less monsters.
It's kind of overloaded now to my feel.
I mean you kind of need an plethora on weapons, or on players to get passed the first part.
*playing with classic weapons.

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Re: MH-INF-HollywoodHolocaust

Post by Red_Fist » Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:26 pm

esnesi wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:10 am
Frgn awesome, thanks for developing and sharing!
Lots of memories on here!

My suggestion would be less monsters.
It's kind of overloaded now to my feel.
I mean you kind of need an plethora on weapons, or on players to get passed the first part.
*playing with classic weapons.
I did not try the map yet, doing balance for MH is difficult.
So I tried to figure out from a very basic point of view that if each weapon had 1 bullet and each enemy had 1 or 2 or 4 or 10 health, the match would be just as hard if you scaled the ammo and health(s) down.
So if you set an enemy health, Boss, like 20,000, then all you do is increase the damage from redeemers until it exactly matches the ratio to having 1 health or one bullet.
BUT
Now toss in 5 players, the 1 bullet idea would be so quick or so fast with more players.
Then having 10 players with enemies set to a higher health, the map takes for ever as one player OR 10, while everyone shoots the same thing(s).

So the situation is, you can't make a good map for 1 player as opposed to 10 players.

leaving the dilemma of making a map, especially for MH that is Not, too hard, too easy, too long or end too fast,
( also too much enemy spawn spam used to compensate for play time, more or less.)
:)
Binary Space Partitioning

Buggie
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Re: MH-INF-HollywoodHolocaust

Post by Buggie » Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:13 pm

I end map in local solo without any cheats in usual MH with classic weapons (no ammo or hp regen or any kind of gifts, just pure play on map) in near 25 minutes. No deaths. Also no redemeer use.
Hard place only one - start point, because a lot snipers near. So in next beta will be less count of them. Only one per each side.

As mentioned above map must playable for a lot players. Typical MH load allow 4-10 players. So monsters can not be at low count. Or players will be tired run on empty map.
It is MH not MapRun.

But, in general, you can not make map good for 1 player run-n-shoot and for 10 players simultaneously.
But you can make overflow with monsters. 10 Players can play as run-n-shoot, 1 player can play carefully. Win-win.

Layout of this map not suits for typical "Travel from A to B" approach.
So here implemented way "Kill em all while explore level for unlock end".

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EvilGrins
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Re: MH-INF-HollywoodHolocaust

Post by EvilGrins » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:30 am

Let the bots have a go at it first, and my initial thought was it needs better bot-pathing... but not so much. Turns out the massive amount of monsters, and possibly the limited number of available weapons, has the bots less than willing to jump into the shooting gallery of so many monsters in the first area.

Once that was cleared out, turns out the pathing is just fine.

I might suggest opting for a different set of of initial monsters. Maybe less powerful ones. Recently went through some old stuff, particular monsters of a wide variety, edited onto a test map, that Medor released way back when. Lots of them, like that Snakeman there, only has about 10 health... better for an opening area, I think.
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sektor2111
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Re: MH-INF-HollywoodHolocaust

Post by sektor2111 » Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:13 pm

Ceiling around MedBox5 does a HOM effect - that surface is not coplanar.
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A.I. stuff
- certain paths can be manually demanded as long as gravity looks friendly with various jumps - map has jumpy potential;
- by getting rid of useless nodes and keeping a single line with paths, several HuntNodes might block routes when Bots are having enemies and they won't rush map if are added some WayPoints;
- finishing map by Bots can be excluded with false paths making them to fail in ending map but roaming around (you can even kick them down from bridge if is not destroyed).

However - Interesting Episode.
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Buggie
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Re: MH-INF-HollywoodHolocaust

Post by Buggie » Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:56 pm

Beta2: viewtopic.php?p=130867#p130867

- Fix nocoplanar surfaces.
- Reduce snipers at start.
- Add some monsters.
- Add sounds from original game in different places.
- Add enforcer at start.

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sektor2111
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Re: MH-INF-HollywoodHolocaust

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:13 pm

Buggie wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:56 pm
- Reduce snipers at start.
Yep... it's not like those snipers are a big problem in servers loading players more or less randomly with weaponry. Those complains about those snipers are not that valid - you have sniper-rifle too. In MonsterHunt servers, 8 players might need some challenge not just one or two monsters dying in 2 seconds.

If it's about adding Map for On-Line gaming, all snipers from beta1 + a few more backups are going to be placed back, some tuning at paths - monster routes, waypoints, blockedPath actors or paths toggling actors should be suffice for a nice MH session. But this is a separate homework for me another time, I have something else on the table.

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sektor2111
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Re: MH-INF-HollywoodHolocaust

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:40 pm

Resuming a bit certain quirks:
- Brush in Spawn-Base causes a levitation around with some invisible floor - that brush is borked but I managed to fix it - doesn't matter rotation that much as it matters what polys and location of said Brush (turned in semisolid) and rebuild using 10 - 60 sliders;
- By any matter in UT a TriggerToggle mover set bTriggerOnceOnly is a myth - already described in forum by Barbie - these movers if are re-triggered will return back in spot causing that glass nearby mercenaries to be regenerated.

A.I. support.
Indeed it is not about moving from point A to Point B, but Pawns can move at Points A, B, C, D and so on, UNLOCKING weapons if are not participating too much at cleaning area - still under discussions depending on Game Controller used. By using a Waypoint inactive in certain spot (deactivated by guard for any MH version) Bots will go there without ending map or attempting to end map. My Bots are helping here even if snipers are slaughtering them. There is another way to leave base without taking damage during fall using an alternate route and unlocking RocketLauncher as first objective, then visiting Sliths for Minigun because that PathNode bugger will go back on the ground with Normal paths. This jump capability added in map makes certain hand made paths successfully used.