MH-Desertstorm

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Buggie
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MH-Desertstorm

Post by Buggie » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:01 am

Conversion for MonsterHunt this map:
https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... d13db.html
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MH-DesertstormV0.zip
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Buggie
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Re: MH-Desertstorm

Post by Buggie » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:02 am

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EvilGrins
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Re: MH-Desertstorm

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:40 am

1. Looks great.
2. If you host images on a different site and post them here, you can do all of what you did up there in 1 post. Double-posting will get you in trouble here... trying to help.

*ahem*

As usual, did my 1st run through with bots...
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...which only goes so far as Buggie has mentioned he doesn't care much for bots and doesn't path for them.

As far as that goes, bots play the map well until they no longer have any direct threats to fight... so far as there's monsters around, they keep going fine.
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As with his previous map, this is a converted Assault map, with red flags to destroy to activate triggers to get further into the map.

I'll do another review after playing it myself soon.

about 2 hours later
Me with backup!

Okay, so it played pretty well up to a point and then the map crashed. Or should I say froze, and was not easy to get outta... Task Manager and some creative keyboard work managed to prevent me needing to reboot the computer.
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Past where that last screenshot is there's kind of a killbox: Mantas attacking in waves, Brutes & Behemoths firing down from a raised position, and other stuff.

I planted in, fired upwards at them with the minigun, and about 15 seconds of that and the map locked up and froze.

Attaching the .log file, maybe one of you can figure it out.
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OjitroC
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Re: MH-Desertstorm

Post by OjitroC » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:28 pm

Another interesting and fun MH conversion - as with many AS maps, the essentially linear form lends itself to MH.

Comments :
1 As with some of the other conversions, some monsters (brute types in particular) are placed the wrong way around, that is not looking in the direction from which an attack is almost certainly going to come. Not a major problem, but it does look odd;

2 The below ground-level room with the 8 slith can't be accessed - at least I could not find a way in there;

3 Similarly the room with the shieldbelt and the 8 pupae could not be acessed. I finished the map and still had 8 monsters left so had to ghost around the map looking for them - eventually found them very near the End up in that room. The grill is solid so can't translocate through;

4 The pupae at the start are annoying - should usually have a safe area for spawning with no monster access to it - just my view and not critical to gameplay;

5 Nice to see there are no tentacles - they can be a bit boring when there are loads and loads of them :P
EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:40 am
Okay, so it played pretty well up to a point and then the map crashed. Or should I say froze, and was not easy to get outta... Task Manager and some creative keyboard work managed to prevent me needing to reboot the computer.

Attaching the .log file, maybe one of you can figure it out.
Can't see anything obvious in the log. You are using the orginal D3D renderer so maybe the intense fire (and hence rendering of 'stuff') at the point the map froze was too much for it. Map ran fine for me in 469b with OpenGL so perhaps try the map again with OpenGL?

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sektor2111
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Re: MH-Desertstorm

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:13 pm

And... I would like to find more about these MH supposed conversions and if these map files are having a normal integrity - because they have DUPLICATED actors morphed into another formula - not as names, but similar actors in the same place, SkyZoneInfo actors in a previous map, the same for Lights, here I see useless PathNodes into void, etc.
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I simply moved PathNode249 and another one was there, and then I moved next node and yet another one was there and so on multiple times. MapGarbage has the option to find these duplicated things even if they don't have the same name. If this is UT mapping stage after 20+ years, excuse me but you lost me here. Previous HellRaiser map has 4 SkyZoneInfo actors located exactly in the same zone for no reason and a bunch of lights into void and others "2 in 1" lights. Without them everything is normal, they are not needed at all.

For Bot Support there is another story, more paths here are useless, several nodes can be deleted, all simplified and operational, easy as a pie, using stock MH actors without any sort of FortStandard and more debris data.
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Re: MH-Desertstorm

Post by Buggie » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:45 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:28 pm
1 As with some of the other conversions, some monsters (brute types in particular) are placed the wrong way around, that is not looking in the direction from which an attack is almost certainly going to come. Not a major problem, but it does look odd;

2 The below ground-level room with the 8 slith can't be accessed - at least I could not find a way in there;

3 Similarly the room with the shieldbelt and the 8 pupae could not be acessed. I finished the map and still had 8 monsters left so had to ghost around the map looking for them - eventually found them very near the End up in that room. The grill is solid so can't translocate through;
1. Lazy way. Placed in default direction. If you want - you can edit 500+ monsters and set direction for each manually.
Also this is almost no difference. Even better if all not start fire at you just you enter. Anyway any shot make them turn to you, so not see any reason for waste time for that.

2. Exists lever for open it. On next version it be labeled with flag.

3. Need dodge from second floor near generator, to thin edge near. Go to center and jump to vent. It open and you get inside.

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OjitroC
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Re: MH-Desertstorm

Post by OjitroC » Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:32 pm

Buggie wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:45 pm
1. Lazy way. Placed in default direction. If you want - you can edit 500+ monsters and set direction for each manually.
Also this is almost no difference. Even better if all not start fire at you just you enter. Anyway any shot make them turn to you, so not see any reason for waste time for that.
Yeah, fair enough.
Buggie wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:45 pm
2. Exists lever for open it. On next version it be labeled with flag.
Have found it now - tried it last time I played the map but possibly didn't push it from the right side.
Buggie wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:45 pm
3. Need dodge from second floor near generator, to thin edge near. Go to center and jump to vent. It open and you get inside.
OK but there is nothing in the map to indicate that one needs to do that. It's a bit superfluous given that one will have cleared out everything in that room before anyway - so no real need for a shieldbelt then particularlly in a location that is difficult to reach and that's right by the End?

The other issue I have come across is probably impossible to fix but ... in several locations there appear to be small ICHs mainly near to entrances or to the iron wall/ceiling supports. I tend to do MH slowly and shoot as much as I can from long range using as much cover as possible - this means getting close to walls and door surrounds - it's in these kind of areas that the ICHs are and it's sometimes impossible to shoot through them - not a major issue but it does occur quite often.

Something I have noticed in this and other of your conversions is that the number of monsters given in the chat area is not the same as the number stated in the HUD (bottom left) - it's not important I suppose as I go by the number given in the HUD - just curious as to why there is a difference.

Something odd going on here - the Krall are just jumping up and down and it is impossible to shoot them from where I am standing.
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Buggie
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Re: MH-Desertstorm

Post by Buggie » Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:03 pm

Usually on server exists radar which show monsters near. For local play it can be difficult find it - yes.
Also on server movers transparent for monsters, so they see you and start produce sounds. On local play movers solids.
In next version I plan place here redeemer. It can be used for clear other parts.

ICH typical for big maps with complicated geometry in UE1, so nothing usual.
In my conversion I prefer not touch geometry if not need. Some maps even not rebuilt.
So all still same as original. Because sometimes need special settings for build. Or try rebuild make problems.
This stuff not subject for fix usually. Almost any big map suffer from such little glitches.

Counter in chat area work only for "last" monsters. You need kill em all for unlock mhend.
This lead from fact - Counter use byte for num (very dumb, but UT not created for kill thousand monsters, so it look reasonable for DM shooter). So only 255 is max.
OFC I can introduce new class and link all monsters to new counter, but this lead to another problem - "find one missed fly at begin or not able end map".
So this thing allow you end map with clear end, but if you miss something at start, it is fine.

About Krall - as I see, players not suffers from such problems in start tunnels. IDK what is that.
Maybe it also some ICH only for scanhit weapons. I see few such stuffs on hell map. Try use weapons with projectiles.

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EvilGrins
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Re: MH-Desertstorm

Post by EvilGrins » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:04 am

Tried it again, it froze up on me about halfway through. Much earlier than last time.

Oh, the planes at the start of the map? Don't jump into their spinning rotor blades... it would be bad.
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OjitroC
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Re: MH-Desertstorm

Post by OjitroC » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:33 am

EvilGrins wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:04 am
Tried it again, it froze up on me about halfway through. Much earlier than last time.
Did you try a different renderer? Anything new/different in the log to suggest what the cause might be? I see you use the Excessive regen, are you using the Excessive weapons as well?

I played it through to the end in 436 using EXUOpenGL renderer so the map does run OK in 436 - I can only suggest that your problem may be related to the renderer you are using.


Comments on the map

It does 'run' slightly differently in 436 than in 469 - the ICH issue seems a bit worse in 436 and, of course, what's in the log is rather different.

On the map as a whole - I'm not convinced that the 'sewer access' adds anything to the map as the room with the sliths is a dead-end and the hatch that opens is further back on the route through the map so one doesn't need to return to it. I did eventually get into the room at the End with the pupae but, as I said before, I'm not sure it is worth the effort as the grill doesn't open easily and, having really finished the map already, there is no real point in trying to get the shieldbelt that is in there (plus of course, there is nothing obvious that indicates that one should try and get in there anyway).