CTF-Alley

Tutorials and discussions about Mapping - Introduce your own ones!
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ckrudelux
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CTF-Alley

Post by ckrudelux » Wed Mar 16, 2022 9:17 pm

Hello everyone!

I'm kind of new to mapping. Looking for someone to give feedback to my latest creation.

The idea I had was to have a street with a team in each end. Using the buildings doors as a portal for alternative routes, from one side to the other.
I did not end up exactly where I imagine, but I'm pleased so far with the result.

I still feel like it's not done yet. But it's close.

Enjoy what I've done so far.
Download:
Beta1 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iRyHO- ... sp=sharing
Beta2 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ouOV26 ... sp=sharing



Image
Image
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I'm easily distracted I also made this as well but it's far from done. But it's a sneak peak into what comes next.
Image
Last edited by ckrudelux on Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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EvilGrins
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by EvilGrins » Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:17 pm

Let the bots have a go at it while I observed.
Image Image
Overall, bots use the whole space pretty effectively. Not much of anywhere they don't go.

Only real problems I saw were in bots getting hung up between boxes.
Image
Once they get stuck between then, they can't seem to get out. If you're bot sympathetic, a bit more spacing could be ideal.

Your map uses warp zones.
Image
Not sure about that visual effect for where the zones are, seems odd.
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OjitroC
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by OjitroC » Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:28 pm

Welcome :tu:

Interesting idea, interesting map :tu:

I would suggest you get hold of Buggie's MapChecker and sektor's MapGarbage tools - these can be found on this forum and are useful for checking a wide range of 'technical' issues in maps. Some of things they revealed are
Spoiler
Show
A considerable number of PathNodes/Navigation Points too close together
Movers with bad moving time for net play:
LevelInfo.Author is empty
LevelInfo.IdealPlayerCount is empty
LevelInfo.Song not set
Navigation Points which are too high
15 navigation points aren't that used as valid paths
Too many Pathnodes and too many ReachSpecs
13 Playerstart actors might need another rotation (facing a wall, etc)
No DefensePoint Actors
88 PlayerStarts (which is too many)

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UnrealGGecko
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by UnrealGGecko » Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:31 pm

Welcome aboard!

Not at home till friday so cant really test out the gameplay, but from the video it looks like a pretty interesting idea.

Some thoughts regarding visuals:
- What EvilGrins said about the warp zone sheet I agree, maybe something like an animated transperant force field texture would look better
- More detail in the rooms full of boxes wouldnt hurt, at least a light fixture to know where or how is the room not completely pitch black :p
- Could spice up the outside area by having some of the windows unlit?

Might seem nitpicky, but hey thats the thing with mappers, amirite? Hope to see more from ya! :mrgreen:

EDIT: played it, definetly not bad! Did notice in the blue base's outside area the light fixture is higher than it's supposed to be, now it's floating mid air.

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ckrudelux
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by ckrudelux » Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:29 am

Thank you so mush for the feedback. I made some changes hope they fix some of the problems.

Download
Beta 3: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ouOV26 ... sp=sharing

Changes.
- The logos are now the right side up.
- Boxes have been moved back to it's place and wont trap bots.
- Light fixture has been moved back into it's place.
- Updated the warpzone portal texture to a more portal like texture.
- Added some light fixtures to the room of boxes
- Updated PathNodes according to the issues from the MapChecker.
- Rearranged some boxes in the box room making it a little bit easier to get up on top of the boxes.

Issues I have is.
- Don't know how to block projectiles from going through the portal, reason for blocking and showing the portals, is that not all weapons can shoot through them. Maybe I should just let it be as and players learn how to shoot through them.
- Bots get stuck at the gates between each section. Have a PathBlocked but the still get stuck there. I think it gets worse after the gates have opened and closed since from my understanding PathBlocked can't be toggled.
- Mover0 MoveTime = 15.000000 != 14.285714 I don't know what this means. Mover is set to 15sec so I don't see what could be the issue with net play in that regard.
- ZoneInfo with AmbientBirghtness == 0: Don't know what this mean either :/
- bCollideActors with big collision size can produce high load: Trigger1 CollisionHeight = 1024.000000 CollisionRadius = 7500.000000. Having a large trigger so that the gates runs it's dispatcher loop. Not sure how to make this in another way.

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sektor2111
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:11 pm

Let me clarify a few things.
#1 The fix concerning Mover's movement ON-Line can be applied by admins as server-side. Maps having this embedded fix... will have a DOUBLE FIX - pointless. There is no need to waste time here, stock maps have ZERO fixes and that's why doing the fix as generic "ServerActor" is more useful than doing private fixes in maps.

#2
ckrudelux wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:29 am
- ZoneInfo with AmbientBirghtness == 0: Don't know what this mean either :/
When map uses zones with ZoneInfo actors accordingly, properties from LevelInfo are discarded, master LevelInfo is ignored here - trust me I know what I'm talking about.
#3
ckrudelux wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:29 am
- Updated PathNodes according to the issues from the MapChecker.
MapChecker is not doing the very best check concerning nodes - some of them are breaking navigation and are not reported, only those totally empty of paths - I changed codes with regard to this check. If a node is not having any upStreamPath that one has no "pass-through" route. PrunedPath check is not relevant. You cannot have PrunedPaths and no Paths - all are checked if are missing. One of available paths going forward is taken and pruned if possible, first shortest path remaining there. You can have outgoing paths but not incoming = BREAK Point in more cases. You can have Incoming Paths but Not Outgoing - this can be nasty - Bot is coming here (Inventory) but has no return. Your Nodes is recommended to be linked with the rest of network without gaps, doesn't matter PrunedPaths (which are invisible anyway). This is why my own Paths Creator aka ReachSpecs Generator is not doing any PrunedPath and maps are just fine this way - demonstrated already. Also I can deploy a demo serpent-like map with nodes in which Editor won't do any PrunedPath and map will work normally like other functional maps.

#4 You cannot Block projectiles through Portals unless you will use another WarpZoneInfo child actor - and you will need some code here. Also a BlockedPath means "No Passing" if is not unlocked, after unlocking it won't do anything else than turning itself into a plain Navigation Node.

#5
ckrudelux wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:29 am
- bCollideActors with big collision size can produce high load: Trigger1 CollisionHeight = 1024.000000 CollisionRadius = 7500.000000. Having a large trigger so that the gates runs it's dispatcher loop. Not sure how to make this in another way.
Why not using a TimedTrigger with "bRepeating=False/True" or a StochasticTrigger ?

Edit:Beta3 analysis
- map is having a lot of pathing junks based on overcrowding nodes launching Editor into a debris factoring process:

Code: Select all

LostData: ________________________________________________________________
LostData: ReachSpecs missing from Paths[0-15] 		= 2596.
LostData: ReachSpecs missing from upStreamPaths[0-15] 	= 2264.
FixedWithSuccess: ReachSpecs successfully attached 	= 4106.
FixFailures: ReachSpecs attaching failures - probably no place = 754.
LostData: ________________________________________________________________
And then you are over UE1 boundaries... Paths Processing Task has all chances to go into loops.
Too_Much_Is_Too_Much.PNG
Some PlayerStart actors might never be used - are too many and facing walls.
Then...

Code: Select all

NoIncomingPath: PathNode686 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode827 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode836 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode838 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode849 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode889 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode891 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode1061 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode1141 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode1143 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode1146 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode1182 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode1183 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode1184 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode1185 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode1186 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode1187 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode1188 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode1189 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4029 -> SniperRifle1 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4030 -> SniperRifle2 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4034 -> UT_Eightball0 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4035 -> UT_Eightball1 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4036 -> UT_FlakCannon0 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4037 -> UT_FlakCannon1 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4085 -> HealthVial27 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4089 -> HealthVial31 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4090 -> HealthVial32 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4097 -> HealthVial39 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4122 -> RocketPack9 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4123 -> RocketPack10 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4124 -> FlakAmmo0 is not having any incoming connection...
NoIncomingPath: InventorySpot4127 -> FlakAmmo3 is not having any incoming connection...
Useless PathNodes

Code: Select all

UnReachableNodes: PathNode686 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode827 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode836 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode838 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode849 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode882 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode883 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode889 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode891 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode939 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1061 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1062 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1100 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1101 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1141 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1142 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1143 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1146 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1150 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1152 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1155 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1158 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1163 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1166 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1171 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1172 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1182 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1183 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1184 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1185 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1186 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1187 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1188 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode1189 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
Here I don't think these are placed by mapping normally - this sort of placement it's just useless.
Deletion_Recommended.PNG
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EvilGrins
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by EvilGrins » Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:39 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:11 pm
Here I don't think these are placed by mapping normally - this sort of placement it's just useless.
Kinda tempted to add in a manta and see if it flies along the path of the floating apples.
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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sektor2111
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:51 am

Like I said 1000 times, Editor doesn't add aerial paths and those are not having anything for passing through them, good luck with Mantas...

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papercoffee
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by papercoffee » Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:59 am

ckrudelux wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:29 am
- Don't know how to block projectiles from going through the portal, reason for blocking and showing the portals, is that not all weapons can shoot through them. Maybe I should just let it be as and players learn how to shoot through them.
Only Projectile based weapons can shoot through portals because projectiles are their own actor(?) and travel "physically".
Hitscan weapons (as the name implies) scans for the target (line of sight) and then decide if it had hit it or not ...because those scans can't travel through portals can't you shoot through them.

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sektor2111
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:08 am

The other reality I described already. WarpZoneInfo actor can be rewritten in a child subclass to destroy non-pawns or to ignore them letting these to bounce into walls without passing on the other side. As result, if hit-scan weapons have no effects through warps, the rest of weapons are locked too = equilibrium.

Edit:
More clarification ? Watcha this

Code: Select all

class NoDamageWarp expands WarpZoneInfo;
...
...
simulated function ActorEntered( actor Other )
{
....
	if ( !Other.bIsPawn ) //Sektor: No more intruders
		return;
	Super.ActorEntered( Other );
....
....
....
Now let me know if your rocket will do anything through a warp-zone.

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papercoffee
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by papercoffee » Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:49 am

Of course it can be done ...I was just explaining why not every weapon can hit through a portal in an unmodded state.
I would rather like the opposite. Making it so that hitscan weapons can scan through portals ...or maybe changing all hitscan into projectiles which would be even more accurate.
I mean there are only 3 Enforcer, Mini and Sniper Rifle, right?

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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by SilverSound » Sun Mar 20, 2022 6:23 am

papercoffee wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:49 am
Of course it can be done ...I was just explaining why not every weapon can hit through a portal in an unmodded state.
I would rather like the opposite. Making it so that hitscan weapons can scan through portals ...or maybe changing all hitscan into projectiles which would be even more accurate.
I mean there are only 3 Enforcer, Mini and Sniper Rifle, right?
I was thinking the same thing earlier. Tehcnically MTracer is a projectile and the chaos sniper rifle (Bouncy boi) is also a projectile.
"Woah what?! I wish I was recording that...."

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sektor2111
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:18 am

Mapper has asked about BLOCKING Projectiles probably because BOT is veeery easy to get killed by a Rocket sent through Warp as long as he cannot see what's happening on the other side, and then you are just Cheating here - exactly, when you do have an advantage over the rest of your opponents this is not fair at all.

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f7r
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by f7r » Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:56 pm

papercoffee wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:49 am
I mean there are only 3 Enforcer, Mini and Sniper Rifle, right?
What is about ASMD? Is it not a hitscan?
papercoffee wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:49 am
Making it so that hitscan weapons can scan through portals
I also takes this question.

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papercoffee
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Re: CTF-Alley

Post by papercoffee » Sun Mar 20, 2022 4:02 pm

f7r wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:56 pm
papercoffee wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:49 am
I mean there are only 3 Enforcer, Mini and Sniper Rifle, right?
What is about ASMD? Is it not a hitscan?
You are right the ball isn't but the primary fire is ...the beam is just decoration.