Locking your map name

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Feralidragon
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Re: Locking your map name

Post by Feralidragon » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:32 pm

I just need to say one thing about the Epic's EULA:
- People constantly misunderstand this small detail: they are the ultimate owners of what you create using any of their assets, however Epic is NOT the community. I am not Epic, Jack is not Epic, no one here is Epic, thus none of us has any power or legal ownership over what others in the community do.

Also, I keep my stuff open and people can rip, do stuff from it, etc, HOWEVER, I am not obligated to do it in the first place as the EULA doesn't cover that. The only ones that can *take* anyone's work without asking is Epic, not the rest of the community.

Please, understand this because I see this misunderstood in way too many places. In nowhere in the EULA it states that within the community person A is free to use person B own content freely.

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Re: Locking your map name

Post by EvilGrins » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:44 pm

Bloeb wrote:That's simply not true. It's possible to register copyrights, but it's not necessary at all. I would suggest to you to read up on international copyright agreements.
Possible difference, I'm familiar with general ones not the international ones.
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Re: Locking your map name

Post by Bloeb » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:03 pm

Their EULA isn't even valid in some countries (in particular some European countries), because of the following reasons:
1. When someone buys the game he isn't able to read and agree with the EULA before actually buying it.
2. Laws are stil more important then EULA. The EULA can not overrule copyrightlaws and hence Epic can not claim ownership over things you've created using their tools.

Besides those arguments, tools are meant to create things. Can a screwdriver-company claim ownership over my house, because I've used a screwdriver to screw something in my house? :what:

EvilGrins, what do you mean by 'general ones'. I'm pretty sure those international agreements also apply in the USA.

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Re: Locking your map name

Post by EvilGrins » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:07 pm

Bloeb wrote:EvilGrins, what do you mean by 'general ones'. I'm pretty sure those international agreements also apply in the USA.
Copyright relating to authors and plagiarism.
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Re: Locking your map name

Post by Feralidragon » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:58 pm

Bloeb wrote:Their EULA isn't even valid in some countries (in particular some European countries), because of the following reasons:
1. When someone buys the game he isn't able to read and agree with the EULA before actually buying it.
That's a valid point, but doesn't UT ask you to agree with their EULA before you can actually install? (really, I don't remember, a long time since I had to "reinstall" the game, but most games only allow the install after you agree with their EULA)
Bloeb wrote: 2. Laws are stil more important then EULA. The EULA can not overrule copyrightlaws and hence Epic can not claim ownership over things you've created using their tools.

Besides those arguments, tools are meant to create things. Can a screwdriver-company claim ownership over my house, because I've used a screwdriver to screw something in my house? :what:
Not a good analogy there.

First and foremost the EULA doesn't override any copyright laws, it actually tries to protect Epic copyrights because you didn't buy a license to USE THEIR resources, you bought the GAME, and the game alone. The EULA just states that Epic "borrows" those resources to you, under some conditions: use them only as UT dependent packages (mods, maps, addons, etc) and in the end, they are *also* the owner of your stuff. You do own it, but to a certain extent, where if Epic wants to use them, they can without saying you anything legally.

Second, you *bought* that screwdriver, didn't you? By buying a tool, whatever you make with it it's your concern and is yours alone, but if you didn't buy, the agreement of usage could indeed be "you're free to use, but whatever you make with it belongs to us".
In the actual professional world of development this is often the case in contracts made so A makes something and B owns it.

As long as you don't sell or offer completely something, you can state conditions of usage, and those conditions can "pre-state" copyright agreements.
Copyrights can be sold, offered, transferred, shared and even nullified if the one holding it chooses so (generally this is CC0).
Epic just chose: "ok, you can use OUR editor, OUR textures, OUR sounds, for FREE, but by doing so whatever you do using these, are OURs in the end".

You have thousands of examples around in which there are contracts where A develops, but B owns it as long A is using B resources.

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Re: Locking your map name

Post by JackGriffin » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:31 am

This is kind of personal, but damn...I just can't believe this.

The forum thread that caused this discussion is here:
http://www.hofgamingclan.com/forum/topi ... IC_ID=6460

There are nothing other than what you read in these two pages, that's important to remember. Also the first post was edited extensively after she realized she was wrong.

In order to keep the calm I asked Schlong to just delete my account and remove my admin from TS. There wasn't really any other choice because there was a growing schism among the membership over which side you were on. Last I talked to Schlong in teamspeak I thought things were fine between us.

Now I go to the main forum page and my small section where I uploaded mods and work for them was changed to "The Troll House". Just classy stuff there. I've literally spent a hundred hours on TS teaching Schlong to code in the last couple of months. No good deed goes unpunished I guess.

Schlong, I know you read this board because we have discussed it. Would you please remove my mods from your forum? I posted those to try to help you guys, not to be mocked. It's pretty uncool stuff. If you have any decency you'll remove that forum section.

BTW to the rest: On the map protection front I got what I needed. I'll be testing this over the next little bit and I hope to have a fully working protection scheme shortly for your use.
So long, and thanks for all the fish

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Re: Locking your map name

Post by papercoffee » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:27 am

JackGriffin wrote: "The Troll House"...
Got BrattZilla admin rights on the HoF forum?

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Re: Locking your map name

Post by JackGriffin » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:19 pm

Yeah. Almost surely she's the one that did this. It's really childish but if you know her you aren't surprised. Some people can't stand getting taken to the woodshed in a disagreement and they will try to retaliate to make themselves feel better about being bested in a discussion. I embarrassed her pretty badly in that exchange, she's supposed to be some sort of network tech person :wtf: What you also don't see there in the thread is her stripping my rank from the forum and locking my account (she changed my password). I went on teamspeak and Schlong reversed her decision on that too and reinstated me fully. I'm sure that didn't sit well with her either when she had to alter her post to remove that 'punishment' because she was over-ruled. Because he did that for me I planned to just leave quietly and save him any grief over more problems with her and I. In fact I specifically had Schlong remove my admin from their stuff and as soon as Brat saw I was out she took this swipe.

In the end I don't guess I blame her. Some of the other admins were asking why my thread was tolerated even though I was right. She had to do something and saying "OK, you know what your talking about. Explain to me why I'm wrong so I can learn from it" isn't in her nature. Still I did several big favors lately for the co-site owners and asking them to remove this puerile jab at me isn't out of the bounds of reason. I'm interested to see what happens because this could be a third time she's been over-ruled in this same matter. She'll argue strenuously to preserve her standing of authority I'm sure. I know I would.

I swear it's times like this that make it so hard not to react just like Flay mentioned. That's the old me though and if this stays the way it is then I guess I'll just move on from it. You can't fix stupid.

I can however fix maps, and I'm pretty close on the map lockdown. A couple more things pop into place and this thing will be good to go.
So long, and thanks for all the fish

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Re: Locking your map name

Post by ][X][~FLuKE~][X][ » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:31 pm

ok, jackgriffin aka GoPostal.

This is the second time you have gone out of your way to blow things up and target {HoF}, after finding out what you have gone off like i had no choice but to ban you from our forums for a second time, i have taken over this situation so point your troll insults at me ok gopo, you were never banned or blocked before, your moderator status was removed for all of 10 minutes until i stepped in and banned you yesterday.

firstly - the changes to the maps are not physical, they were files like textures which had become corrupt and brattzilla the MH head admin fixed them to stop server crashing when playing those maps or simple name changes but retaining the original map names without crap like $%&*@# in them etc., no way would we alter files to our liking without seeking out the owner of the files permission first, you flipped out because something was posted in public section by accident, thats how this started, doesnt take much to set you off.

secondly - you came into our house for the second time after schlong gave you the chance and i allowed it even though the last run in i had with you is when you falsely claimed i was a cheat and you had proof, i called you out on this on every forum you posted it on and willed you to post the so called evidence, you failed to do so because it simply doesnt exist, you caused massive upset but this time i am prepared for it, i even said this would happen and you have proven me to be correct.


you seem to thrive on attention and causing friction where ever you go, give it a rest or get some help gopo, you only make yourself look bad in the long run., the funniest thing to me is how in all these situations you play the victim like you are innocent in it all and didnt cause anything.


for those who dont know me, i am the Co-Leader of {HoF} and then please ask ferali how i feel about people stealing/editing other peoples work and you will know for a fact this would never be tolerated in our house no matter how small the files may be, i would never allow it.

also gopo, brattzzilla's technical skills would blow you out of the water and anyone else i know, the only thing you have over her is the ability to code, so i wouldnt think she is just "some woman admin who dabbles with servers" if i was you

she has taken no action at all, so you need to stop with the wild accusations towards her, all action has been carried out by me and was done no more than 24 hours ago which was a forum account lock, your password has never been changed or anything else apart from the moderator status change i mentioned, whats the point in doing that when a simple click locks your account?....please stop with the lies just like you did with me a while back gopo, you just make yourself look stupid to those who know the facts.


PS: I changed the name of the thread section to "the troll house" because that name suits you so much better, you are a troll feeding off causing bad situations, i dont care what your response is, you are not important for me to care and never will be, you have a lot of coding talent and you tarnish yourself when you do this and have your flip outs, like i said, i have taken control of this now so aim whatever you like at me, i banned you, i changed the forum name, all action is my doing.......simply spring cleaning and wiping your stain off our house which i am now done with, you are gone and we can return back to normal and forget you exist....again.

this is not the kind of posting i want to do on UT99.org but no way am i going to let this clown attack us for a second time without defending our house, please dont claim "you are not like that anymore, thats the old you" gopo, if thats the case then what do you call this????

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Re: Locking your map name

Post by JackGriffin » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:56 pm

You can pile all the personal stuff on that you want but the heart of the matter is that editing a map name is editing the map without permission. Didn't you just get all upset at DK for doing this to your stuff? That's why I got upset at Bratt and yet it's still not an issue with you and you think it's just fine to do.

Look, I don't care what your opinion is of me and I laugh at your personal attacks <yawn>. I think you drink way too much and your RX code cost me several days to get clean so Schlong could even read it (did you think he actually cleaned it up?). Now, does that really bother you? I didn't think so. Hell, your forums were open for anyone to read (even the private forums) if one knew how until I told Schlong a couple of months back how to fix it. Yeah, that's a troublemaker. Once I found that hole I never accessed anything inside the sections I wasn't supposed to see, instead I went directly to Heston and explained how to repair it. If I wanted trouble I'd have site ripped you and had the entire forum to peruse at my leisure.

If that's the way you choose to leave things then it's your forum and you enjoy it. I'll leave it to the mapping community to decide who is right and who is wrong. When I finish with this lockdown they can use it or not and that will pretty much show how they feel.

It's good to know I have your attention :tu:
So long, and thanks for all the fish

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Re: Locking your map name

Post by papercoffee » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:20 pm

Ok ... please calm down everyone ...I will not tolerate a flame war here on UT99.org.
If I see after my post another attempt to boil up this issue I will lock this thread and remove all unfitting posts.

You have a individual problem with a certain person use the PM system.
taunts and complains? send me a PM.

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Re: Locking your map name

Post by ][X][~FLuKE~][X][ » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:46 pm

JackGriffin wrote:your RX code cost me several days to get clean so Schlong could even read it (did you think he actually cleaned it up?).:
wait? you are admitting to editing MY code without permission? bit double standards there isnt it?.....lol @ get clean, a few access nones which have been fixed in last release is about it (not the one you edited without my permission either)

as for DK, he edited the CODE not the name, if i had an RX that was causing an issue simply because of the name then i would be perfectly fine with a name change without them seeking my permission, after all, i dont want what i have created to cause anyones server problems simply because of a name, as long as it retains RX6 then they can add whatever they want to the name, it doesnt alter my work that i have put into the mod.

yes some map names get changed for example from "MH-@~:Whatever:~@.unr" to "MH-whatever.unr"...thats as far as it goes, you have blown this way over proportion up to implying we are damaging other peoples work.


you will never change, you will always seek attention and always claim to be the good guy, just gopo being gopo.

paper, do what you feel you have to, no way am i going to let him once again put a load of false accusations over other UT forums, he is accusing, i am defending, anything i have put is fact from previous experience with him, not flaming.

please do your lockdown on map names, but of course if that name causes an issue on a server then thats one less server that map gets used on, i dont know about anyone else but if i was the author then that would bother me that it cant be used.


i have stated the real facts now and have no need to respond further, you "had" my attention because of the deliberate stress you are causing people yet again.

everything you have added to our forums will be deleted as requested.

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Re: Locking your map name

Post by JackGriffin » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:19 pm

I didn't edit your code. The extent of what I did was clean up the code, which is what I said. Your code was just horrible to read: entire sections completely offset wrong, tens of blank lines for no reason, no sort of brace diligence. One only needs to compare your mod code before to the after and see what it was that I did. Schlong asked me to help him with the RX code rewrite you authorized him to do and I passed, it's just a mess that I don't want to work on. I told him several times that it just needs redone. There are 30 some checks to timer and tick all over the mod and you guys wonder why it's not stable? Do you realize that given the mess you've made of the code how easy it is to cause problems with it? I alluded to that in the one thread there (you know which one) and all but shined a light on the problem for you (by name so you wouldn't miss it). Now I'm not going to post why it's such a big issue but damn man you don't get it. If someone with mediocre skills wanted to cause havoc on the server you'd never know it, and likely it's happening now with all the crashes.

I have the source code timestamp that I sent back to Schlong. You are welcome to post anything I "changed" prior to my uploading to Schlong, but I'm going to check the edit timestamp. Let's ensure it's not after I uploaded it to him to start work on.

And like I said it's not up to you to decide if changing a map name is fair or not. You didn't make the map, it's not your decision.

paper, I too am done with this. Feel free to lock it if Fluke feels no need to reply. Give him a chance though, please. He has that right, and I'll even let him have the last word on the matter. My next post on this will be a lockdown procedure and that's good enough for me.
So long, and thanks for all the fish

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Re: Locking your map name

Post by papercoffee » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:05 pm

JackGriffin wrote: paper, I too am done with this. Feel free to lock it if Fluke feels no need to reply. Give him a chance though, please. He has that right, and I'll even let him have the last word on the matter. My next post on this will be a lockdown procedure and that's good enough for me.
I will decide later...

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Re: Locking your map name

Post by Higor » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:27 pm

=======================================
On an entirely different line, I knew I'd find use to my method of replacing the levelinfo actor.
I intended to use it to preserve the author information and override the levelinfo's as well as to limit the enviroment conditions the map is run.

Well, I've liberated lots of code and other inventions for public use, even uncredited (I don't care anyways). But still, there's things we want to avoid being bastardized and it's natural to employ these kinds of methods.
Besides, if there is one reason I support free code and applications, is due to security and economic reasons, and let's be realistic, an UT99 map, texture or whatever isn't going to cost us money or harm our computer, so if the author decides to protect it, so be it.
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