LongTerm collaborative map edit.

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Red_Fist
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by Red_Fist » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:05 am

ok I am working on it, kinda almost done, it's not setup so bad for me to not figure it out or find the actors with the events.

I see there is factories and the counters. I just need to get the last few points otherwise the bots are doing great, I will check back later with a download link.
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:24 am

Red_Fist wrote:I will check back later with a download link.
Uhm, while appreciated, that wasn't what this post was about. Suggestions, sure, but I've already got Nelsona working on pathing.

I just wanted to share updates on it, as I'd been popping screencaps of it into 'Screenshots for Fun' for awhile now.

If you're up for it though, there's another map I'm still (periodically) working on that's eventually going to need bot pathing. I'm still sorting out monster selections and replacing the absolutely butt-ugly backgrounds that were on the original. When that's done, as done as I can do it, I'll start up a thread for it and be practically begging for help.

That'd be this · http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/80631.html
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by Higor » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:04 am

BotZ runtime pathing worked quite well... but my BotZ attacked the TeamMonsters at the beginning of the game, although it got fixed after a while.
Now some sort of 'regen' is necessary to play and complete this map.

My test session consisted of a 12 man squad (Aegor botz, 9 other botz, Tamerlane and I).
All my team had +30 health and a % of their current weapon's ammo given back to them for every kill, and 4 of us spawned with custom weapons (NYA Rifle, Sunlight Shock, Liandri Minigun, Hyper Cluster Flak).

Possible fixes to gameplay:
1 -> Make MedBoxes heal 50, make Health Vials heal 15 up to 350, add more armor powerups with twice the charge, add two M4 and Shock Uzis instead of 1.
2 -> Make the monster spawners add much less (enough to complete the objectives... excepting kralls, they bug so add an extra 10%)
3 -> Add 'redeemer suits' and hide some more redeemers around, that should help save your team from those minilords as well as provide extra resistance.

Other notes:
-> At least at the base of each tree... add a semisolid 6 sided cylinder so that players don't run throught them, that prevents monsters from seeing you thru as well.
Said cylinders don't need to occupy all the tree, just make it so that it's high enough to block monster vision and player movement.

-> Add loose rocky protuberances on the side of the GrimReaper mountain, so you reach the boss either by translocating or high-jumping.

-> Putting the super strong warlords next to the teleporter is a horrible idea, make the spawner further away in mid air and have it start spawning only when the other objectives are finished... and when a player reached the other side of the teleporter. (use counters).

-> Make the teleporter on the beak of that duck face a little lower, bots won't take it because they think it's unreachable, might as well find a way to make bots reach the MonsterEnd waypoint.
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by Red_Fist » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:25 am

Let it run, bots will end map sooner or later by themselves. I set them to freelance, sometimes they go back to cover me so I hit freelance again, I think when they die they get confused, I think I had 16 bots.

Not sure what this map is since it don't look done with all the other places to go.

It could work much better if there was no extra pawn spawns above the counter amount.
I lifted the counters and other actors off the ground so you can't touch them.
I changed one thing factory to a creature factory, all those should be creature factories not thing factories.
You can set extra for coop with the creature factory.

I don't see a gun model for the new goo gun but it worked, I see a tiny model in the editor, a full model in game, no model when held.
I added more player starts, took out the table, and added height collision to the two crates, and lowered the spawn time of the ammo, in the starting room area.

Used blocked paths and monster waypoints and set inventory max desirability to a few pickups, I added the impact hammer and jumpspot-lift exits at the end so the bots can finish the map on top of the kitty.

Map needs a lot more work unless this is some massively unfinished map.
Send this to the other guy and complete the entire map the same way. the way it stands now is they make it through all the monster event story line with monster way point 1 to 6. So those would have to be readjusted if you make the whole map to go through.
Didn't mess with the queen, if this was not your latest version you should have posted that if you had it.

Download
https://skydrive.live.com/embed?cid=07A ... iqRp63Szi8
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:01 am

This was the original I had · http://medor.no-ip.org/index.php?dir=Ma ... EST-V4.zip
Though there's many · http://medor.no-ip.org/index.php?search ... archMode=f

One even has ut2004 Onslaught vehicles on it
Higor wrote:Now some sort of 'regen' is necessary to play and complete this map.
I always play MH with the Excessive ammo/health regenerator.
Higor wrote:1 -> Make MedBoxes heal 50, make Health Vials heal 15 up to 350, add more armor powerups with twice the charge, add two M4 and Shock Uzis instead of 1.
Near the 2nd cabin on the far side of the map is a megahealth that gives 1800 health. I could probably copy that and move 1 or 2 to other key areas of the map.
Higor wrote:2 -> Make the monster spawners add much less (enough to complete the objectives... excepting kralls, they bug so add an extra 10%)
After pathing is finalized, I intended to bring the spawners down to a more managable level.
Higor wrote:3 -> Add 'redeemer suits' and hide some more redeemers around, that should help save your team from those minilords as well as provide extra resistance.
There's redeemers inside each Titan, they drop them when they die. Also a redeemer behind the starting cabin. What's a redeemer suit?
Higor wrote:-> At least at the base of each tree... add a semisolid 6 sided cylinder so that players don't run throught them, that prevents monsters from seeing you thru as well.
Originally when the map had not pathing, bots could follow a living player all over as the trees were no obstacle. Now that it's got pathing that cylinder thing does sound likea good idea... but that's a LOT of trees!

Higor, you've created a monster · http://hermskii.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=40858#p40858
Higor wrote:-> Add loose rocky protuberances on the side of the GrimReaper mountain, so you reach the boss either by translocating or high-jumping.
There's already a way. On the ridge past where the GrimReaper's cabin is there's a translocator in a not too hard to access area. Along with jumpboots, jump and then launch the transloc, that's the way up there.
Higor wrote:-> Putting the super strong warlords next to the teleporter is a horrible idea
I'll look into that, but there's only 1 superpowerful Warlord. The others are normal ones.
Higor wrote:-> Make the teleporter on the beak of that duck face a little lower, bots won't take it because they think it's unreachable, might as well find a way to make bots reach the MonsterEnd waypoint.
Nelsona originally put elaborate pathing on that thing's beak, so that bots could get up there and reach the exit. I asked him to remove it, as I've played enough MH servers to know most players prefer to kill everything on the map before exiting. A bot popping into the exit while there's still monsters on the map might piss some people off.
Red_Fist wrote:Let it run, bots will end map sooner or later by themselves. I set them to freelance, sometimes they go back to cover me so I hit freelance again, I think when they die they get confused, I think I had 16 bots.
I play the map with 3 bots at most, and I had Nelsona remove pathing near the exit so the bots literally can't end the map.
Red_Fist wrote:I don't see a gun model for the new goo gun but it worked, I see a tiny model in the editor, a full model in game, no model when held.
Similar with the BlueBaller, in UnrealEd it looks like 2 cut off arms holding a gun. The "goo gun" or Greenie is a little weird but I like it, even if it doesn't show up in the HUD.
Red_Fist wrote:I added more player starts, took out the table, and added height collision to the two crates, and lowered the spawn time of the ammo, in the starting room area.
Good idea. I don't usually think about that kinda stuff as I play MH with ammo regenerators.
Red_Fist wrote:Used blocked paths and monster waypoints and set inventory max desirability to a few pickups, I added the impact hammer and jumpspot-lift exits at the end so the bots can finish the map on top of the kitty.
Not really onboard with allowing bots to finish the map. Some players, as I said above, prefer to kill everything on the map before exiting. A bot ending the map might piss some folks off.
Red_Fist wrote:Map needs a lot more work unless this is some massively unfinished map.
THUNDERBOLT is an excellent mapper, although he's got no love of bots so none of his maps have pathing, but this one was one of his first. I saw it and thought I could do some stuff with it, but yeah.. it does have the feel of "wonder what else I can do with this?" about it.
Red_Fist wrote:Didn't mess with the queen, if this was not your latest version you should have posted that if you had it.
Don't want to mess with the queen, but I do want to find some way to get the lift in that tunnel to work.
Tried your edit, love it. Between Nelsona's last and this I see a lot of good. Nelsona had the TeamMonsters be more active, your version has less of a memory drain... played it all the way through with no slowness or other errors.

Need to combine these aspects.
Last edited by EvilGrins on Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by Red_Fist » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:05 pm

Thing is I view MH as like a singleplayer level so it's really cool to have the bots act as human.

I was thinking, if you make the waterfall a zone to lift you up there, but you would need the propertychanger actor to turn on the low grav, that does work for zones. Then you could climb up there, have the lift go down, make the rock a mover and have it explode to have the queen fight.

Also you CAN make the bots only go for the exit when you want, all you need to do is use another blocked path. Once you established how far you want the map cleared, or a trigger after some last fight, it would let them pass. You would also make that the last waypoint number.

I have to check but I got the monster end to turn on they will never go for the end. It might just be a setting in it or I used a property changer for that as well, works like a champ.

This map I just wanted them to actually exit, from that point you can control if they can exit.

But the total path needs to go around the whole map for the individual fights and visit each area using more monster waypoints and blocked paths.
The spawn amounts should equal the counter,(plus one) so when that fight is over the bots will move on.
Right now there is 400 spawns but counts to 120 so there is a pile of fighting not done and the bots will just goto the next waypoint before the area is clear.

You have to make sure the paths don't link and a flat map should work so all the enemies don't all follow you as a group.
Like the teleporter by the red cave is NOT linked to the sidewalk nearby.

To make it more efficient you could link it through another blocked path AFTER the button is pushed in the cabin.
Then the bots won't have to go to the cabin each time.

Ok I just looked, the monster end actor can be set to "initially active" to false, so you can trigger it to turn on so the bots won't exit before the time you want.
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:55 pm

I didn't have internet home for more than 5 years, though I hosted LAN games for a stretch, so I'm used to thinking of UT as singleplayer. I'm a big supporter of bots.
Red_Fist wrote:This map I just wanted them to actually exit, from that point you can control if they can exit.
I played your edit last night, and it seems the bots can't exit already. Or, at least, they didn't.
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They just sorta sat up there. Occasionally using the impact hammer to bounce up a ways but never got into the exit.

Were I to switch to your edit, have Nelsona make further edits to it, I'd remove the impact hammer. Other than watching bots jump all over the place up there, it's not wholly necessary. Not far from the entrance to the teleport to get up there is a pair of jumpboots.

One thing I did notice, as the GrimReaper got loose (shot a redeemer up thataway) close to the end of play last night when I needed backup I couldn't call the bots as backup. Apparently once they get up there they're not sure how to get back down.
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by Red_Fist » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:28 pm

"Apparently once they get up there they're not sure how to get back down."

I didn't specifically test or fix for that, but those bots thrive to get to the monster end.
I ran 16 bots, they need the impact hammer in this case but there are other ways, I was blown away it worked the first time.

But they do exit quite well, not sure what skill I have them set at but that will change things a lot.

If it where me I would have the whole map, all areas, and use the blocked paths, monster waypoints counters and creature factories so they play through the whole thing.

Right now the spawn points are all whacked out, too spread out, each enemy needs to stick closer to the area they are spawning since this is a flat open map. To my surprise they didn't interfere as much as I thought, like stray gunfire or monsters fighting each other. For the small amount I did it came out much better than I thought it would while keeping the bots on track.

But there should be at least another 10 or more waypoints added throughout the map so they hit each area, then run for the exit.

You have those mantas, flies, mini warlords, and add even more like a few more skaarj areas. The map has enough space to make it a nice play . Add some secrets for a redeemer or two that only re-spawn like every 5 to 10 minutes.

It could be quite the level for a flat map, could improve the skybox, add a few more things in that and on the maps floor, another building some boulders and some kind of deco around the edges.
Add those brushes around the trees like Higor said.
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:06 am

According to what little I can find on it, the original map was made by THUNDERBOLT for one of the Nali Weapons packages, either 2 or 3. That's the reason it's got so many excessive monsters on it.

While I do like higor's idea of putting cylinders in the trees, I see 2 problems.
1) Just for the flow of the map, the bosses aren't just powerful... they're BIG. I'm worried if more of the trees had a solid element (there's already 3 solid trees on the map) the bosses couldn't navigate the area so well.

It'd be really sad to see a boss hung up on a tree it's not smart enough to walk around.

2) More on a personal note, I use my favorite redeemer mutator on the map, which helps me clear it up very effectively

Deemer Fireworks · http://www.ut99.org/viewtopic.php?p=59585#p59585

Solid trees would hamper it's destructive progress.
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by papercoffee » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:53 am

Then why putting any trees in this map in the first place? Get rid of them...

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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by Red_Fist » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:51 am

papercoffee wrote:Then why putting any trees in this map in the first place? Get rid of them...
Obviously YOU can't see the forest through the trees :P

I might pick a few of them to have collision but not all.
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:21 am

papercoffee wrote:Then why putting any trees in this map in the first place? Get rid of them...
They're pretty, and more of a challenge for the players that aren't bots.

Not all of the monsters come charging out of the woods because they can see you. That tribe of Mercs in the far back right don't do anything until attacked or approached.
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by papercoffee » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:43 am

Then ...is it possible to block projectiles and the player only, from going through a tree?
And I mean only players ...the monsters can still walk through them.

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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by Red_Fist » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:06 pm

Possibly using a block all, but change the collision settings.
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Re: LongTerm collaborative map edit.

Post by EvilGrins » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:42 am

What I originally hoped would be a well pathed map has resulted in 3 well pathed maps; kept them all as they're very much different levels of play. Both edits of my edit done by Nelsona, and Red_Mist's 1 edit of my edit. Actually, the one thing that has stymied much furher development on my part is I keep playing them, and making mild little adjustments.
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Given the Mini·Warlords don't leave a corpse, I swapped their skin with the one I used for the uber·powerful Warlords on a deathmatch map I edited a stretch back.

Haven't heard from Nelsona & Red_Mist since, they may be doing further edits to what they have... or not. In any event, when all is said and done, I'll release all maps in 1 .zip, everybody credited for what they did.

Higor's idea to make some of the trees solid might work well for a side request. Hook wanted a conversion of the map for Deathmatches. I'm going to do a rough edit on that later this week.
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