UED Add ons

Tutorials and discussions about Mapping - Introduce your own ones!

Re: UED Add ons

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:09 pm

Bumping for some request
You might want to draw some icon for Removing Paths. We have button for build (Unused by me) but I still need to input command manually at removing borked paths. I need a cute button for paths removal... or I have to paint one :| .
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3913
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: UED Add ons

Postby sektor2111 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:23 am

Okay, so if it's a problem doing a 30 × 30 pixels button, let me post news then.
At a moment some actor is "hidden" or heavy to be selected for changing properties. If we know the name and we want properties of actor even it cannot be selected in view-port properly, we are searching for it using Edit menu and selecting it there, next move is pushing some button and properties are brought in view-port for editing/changing them - available even with actors visible without context clicks in view-port.
Another fact: Some maps do includes around 200 Paths and 9000+ reachspecs - desperate attempts to make Bot pathing but with a lot of failures. For sure cleaning map needs paths removal and some re-wrapping. Paths removal also can be accessed using a single click on a button and taking less than a second. Let's see commands implementation in UnrealEd.ini:
Code: Select all
NumButtons=20
...
Button18=Actor Properties,UActorProperty,hook actorproperties
Button19=Remove Paths,UPathsUndefine,PATHS UNDEFINE
We have to announce number of buttons and their features. Then, adding icons into "editorres" folder.
Icons are here.
editorres_2more_Icons.zip
UActorProperty.bmp and UPathsUndefine.bmp
(586 Bytes) Downloaded 40 times
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3913
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: UED Add ons

Postby papercoffee » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:00 am

Ok... I look into all that buttons and draw some which, I think, should be better understandable.
It's a good exercise for my UI-skills.
User avatar
papercoffee
Site Staff
 
Posts: 9127
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:36 am
Location: Cologne, the city with the big cathedral.
Personal rank: coffee addicted !!!

Re: UED Add ons

Postby sektor2111 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:19 pm

Problem of understanding button I don't see if is a need for something very very explanatory. Why ? Because command involved is shown as a tool-tip at hovering mouse over button, so it comes explained. After using things a few time anyone will learn them and will use them as default toys... I'm not sure if worth spending a bunch of hours for painting microscopic images...
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3913
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: UED Add ons

Postby papercoffee » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:58 pm

sektor2111 wrote:I'm not sure if worth spending a bunch of hours for painting microscopic images...

:mrgreen: That's my job.

You are a programmer and I'm an user-interface designer. We approaching things different.
You think "Why spending a bunch of hours for something as simple as buttons?".
I think "How can I make it comprehensible even for someone like EvilGrins?"
User avatar
papercoffee
Site Staff
 
Posts: 9127
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:36 am
Location: Cologne, the city with the big cathedral.
Personal rank: coffee addicted !!!

Re: UED Add ons

Postby nogardilaref » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:17 pm

Ah, the long ongoing battle between designers and developers...
Here's a fun fact: you can build the most awesome, powerful, stable, fastest program there is, but no one will even begin to use it if they cannot even begin to understand how.

This is where designing comes into play: it's not only to make them look pretty, it's for them to have a visual intuitive meaning so when you look at them you get "oh, that must do this..." and then it really does what you think it does.
And ideally without resorting to actually see the tool tips.
Tool tips are important though, because there is functionality very hard to express through an icon, but still, it should look recognizable enough so you have to check the tool tip only once at most.

Any UI which relies itself in tool tips alone (or even manuals and tutorials), it's not a good UI.
nogardilaref
Masterful
 
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:00 pm
Personal rank: ⚋⚊⚌☰⚞⌖⚟☰⚌⚊⚋

Re: UED Add ons

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:17 pm

Majority were extracted from a Builder program - are original, I was drawing only 4-5 (if I well recall) of them assigning commands for my needs. If are useful anyone can use them because I have shared these to not keep them only for myself. If we do have problems at using Editor, this means we don't even know what are for even default buttons, LOL, about custom ones I won't ask - I see here "mappers" unable to do basics, so I'm not interested if they can use them or not as long as they don't know Editor as a main mapping tool. Sample: button for removing paths, I did it because I need this operation and not how it do looks like. Mappers having issues at Bot Pathing probably don't have a clue if they do need it or not. Why would be required then effort for an awesome extra-design since they are not used ? I can map Levels using these buttons with no problem - tool-tips are there because not all buttons are mine so even me and myself need hints toward their operating - no big deal after all... even tool-tip can be changed to an extra-explanatory formula.
Now I think I understand excuses. We cannot do good maps because Editor has default crapped buttons and new buttons are the same, yeah, that's why we cannot deal with Bots and Geometry and Triggers and... Names, because... Buttons are guilty, yeah, agree, kill the damn ugly stupid buttons... :ironic: .

More design chapter ?
UI in 30 pixels and self-explanatory - probably an entire story has to be written there... :lol2: ? Go ahead at creativity. I'll download and use alternate options but I see 1 week passed and still nothing as replacement... :sleep: So I'm in state "Waiting" here...

Edit: With mention that Editor is able to create INT files but... I think I have to forget this "feature", but in exchange we can remove that red template brush.
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3913
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: UED Add ons

Postby papercoffee » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:22 pm

I think you overreacting a little bit.
Tomorrow I have time and can show some buttons. :wink:
User avatar
papercoffee
Site Staff
 
Posts: 9127
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:36 am
Location: Cologne, the city with the big cathedral.
Personal rank: coffee addicted !!!

Re: UED Add ons

Postby papercoffee » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:35 am

Bump with a little preview.
I have two versions of the align button and can't decide which one is better.
Image
What do you think?

On the to-do list are the duplicate, apply-texture and the actor-properties button.

EDIT------------------
I have a better Delete button. Image
User avatar
papercoffee
Site Staff
 
Posts: 9127
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:36 am
Location: Cologne, the city with the big cathedral.
Personal rank: coffee addicted !!!

Re: UED Add ons

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:07 am

If these are 30 × 30 pixels I think they are OK - regarding to other thoughts or excuses from different points. No worries, I read hint-tooltips-commands (let's say I have reasons to do that).
Okay, okay no secrets...
At a moment, depending on Editor, Map State, Map Type, etc. When you are attempting to directly open a builder properties in order to modify create a brush from builders, for some reason if you don't wait tool-tip message from builder (even from that simple cube) Editor will crash like an ass and it looks like it do happens more when you were Not saving your last modifications - in hoping to wrong. For me, tool-tips shown especially after scrolling builders are a MUST unless Editor will go to a porky stage and if you insist this way you might have a broken map. At least this is what happened to me and I was almost to lose 25 MB of map done because of retarded Editor itself able to even save a sort of corrupted map file.

Edit: Buttons feed back
Here they do look like this:
A_Sample.png
A_Sample.png (18.58 KiB) Viewed 1301 times
Which I think is pretty much enough.
Edit2:If not, they might be like this which is more than good
B_Sample.png
B_Sample.png (20.37 KiB) Viewed 1297 times
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3913
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: UED Add ons

Postby papercoffee » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:29 pm

I don't have the last button on the left. What function has it?
User avatar
papercoffee
Site Staff
 
Posts: 9127
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:36 am
Location: Cologne, the city with the big cathedral.
Personal rank: coffee addicted !!!

Re: UED Add ons

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:10 pm

I defined it as my personal wish, I think Editor uses command internally doing some setup. If you are declaring None it will do a None, removing template builder - advantage me because I was curious if I can do that, and it looks doable... Method doesn't seem to crash or to cause errors, it's just removing builder brush.
Code: Select all
[UserDefinedGroup]
NumButtons=21
...
Button20=Delete Red Builder Brush,UTempRemove,brush set
and it do happens even if you have selected builder or not, or it was internally wrong defined as a sort of "brush re-set".
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3913
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: UED Add ons

Postby papercoffee » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:47 pm

Oh ...now I got it. Those two buttons are hide/unhide the pathnodes nod the path... :?
I just now tested them in a already finished map.

Ok today I can try to finish them all ...I just change the one which are slightly misunderstandable. All the remaining are fine and doesn't have to be improved. :wink:

I see you didn't like the semisolid button.
User avatar
papercoffee
Site Staff
 
Posts: 9127
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:36 am
Location: Cologne, the city with the big cathedral.
Personal rank: coffee addicted !!!

Re: UED Add ons

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:18 pm

Button for semi-solids is all right but... old one doesn't disturb me at all. It was other problem which I intended to solve. A good icon for Purging Garbage. All I could find was some trashcan types but I was hunting something with a trashcan dropping garbage... I've found only normal ones or cartoon types and I have rotated one for matching a "garbage drop" thing... As long as I did it, I know the command/function accordingly, I don't have problems at understanding it...

Subject Testing:
Probably all buttons can be tested in a random stock map (paths, brushes, etc.) - testing is not a problem, it's just a matter of saving a renamed copy for doing/removing stuff from it and testing everything in order to not screw original stock file...

Understanding subject:
We can debate some of those buttons. I could add more but I did not see them really working and neither understanding what are doing - addressing probably other superior UT versions. These buttons which I posted are usable and probably I can explain what they do. If you wanna know certain button what it does let me know.

Edit: There can be added other button but it has to be combined with another one when is being used - pathing related - because if that's not wisely used will result in a borked map crashing instantly the game, so I think I will not add that button...
Tutorial subject:
Do these buttons need a tutorial ? In my opinion NO. Because a mapper knows how to deal with geometry and... by simple explaining command through tool-tip he/she will know what is needed figuring faster what are doing these adds - me one I need them.
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3913
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: UED Add ons

Postby sektor2111 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:48 pm

Bump
About debugging solution. Let's see something first.
Too_Addicted.PNG
Too_Addicted.PNG (3.81 KiB) Viewed 1215 times
Usually such a normal rebuild is showing how many tries were done for the stupid paths network and is being still in failure stage. When I'm fixing such useless load first step is removing all reachspecs purging garbage and saving map - CLEAN.
Next move is restarting Editor and... triggering an actor re-wrapping on purpose to discard any old InventorySpot actor which map might have in history - or I'm not sure 100% if re-wrapping is needed but it doesn't hurt at all. I'm wondering if command should go in MapGarbage at Pre-Navigation build tweaks or a separate button ? For the moment by using MapGarbage tool after applying pre-pathing tweaks in a clean map, all old left-over junks are gone. Paths are done in a clean stage without screwing brushes order or other evil moves. The command takes place forcing a NONE actor selected for preventing things modified and Editor will do by itself a fine tuning - I don't know each detail about this re-wrapping but result is pretty much closer to a clean state.
Cleaned_Up.PNG
Cleaned_Up.PNG (3.77 KiB) Viewed 1215 times
We won't have 28404 false craps but we can get 1295 real reachspecs which I think is a different thing - no worries paths have to be done correctly by mapper not by Editor else splitting network in multiple parts won't help A.I.
It looks like InventorySpot Actors are wrapped with 0 in a clean state only by restarting Editor and reloading map...
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3913
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

PreviousNext

Return to Mapping

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests