The Terrain Mapping Contest

Tutorials and discussions about Mapping - Introduce your own ones!
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
Posts: 5536
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:16 am

I did not figure too much framerate lost but I could see very bad pathing. Are sure about participation at contest?

I have tested how works and I defeated a GodLike Bot, because... he/she was busy to camp useless. Usually in good pathed maps I cannot win so easy...
Last edited by sektor2111 on Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Gustavo6046
Godlike
Posts: 1248
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:08 pm
Personal rank: Zeta Group leader
Location: Brazil

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Gustavo6046 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:00 pm

Yeah, it fits better for AS. I am just waiting for the editor to make the path nodes and goin' to rip some music what I can from Anvil Studio.
How to make music in OpenMPT without a MIDI keyboard?

User avatar
FraGnBraG
Inhuman
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:13 pm
Personal rank: Good news everyone!
Location: Canada

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by FraGnBraG » Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:30 pm

Dr.Flay wrote:If anyone has a problem they cannot fix, please ask for help.
It worked very well during the last competition as everyone got to learn more.

Music Tip: OpenModPlug Tracker will load MIDI files, and you can save them as tracker files 8)
If you do not already use MIDI software, it is advisable to download a better (bigger) general MIDI set for better quality samples.
As flay said, i recommend openMPT definitely, take a week or two and learn it. MOD files (IT, S3M, FT) which were used to make UMX in UT.
-=FraGnBraG Level Design=- ***UPDATED! even works on your phone!***

User avatar
UnrealGGecko
Godlike
Posts: 2510
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:26 am
Personal rank: GEx the Gecko
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by UnrealGGecko » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:57 pm

Gustavo6046 wrote:Yeah, it fits better for AS. I am just waiting for the editor to make the path nodes and goin' to rip some music what I can from Anvil Studio.
How to make music in OpenMPT without a MIDI keyboard?
For AS I guess it could work, but you'll need to make it longer, because right now it might take 20 seconds to reach the end. :tongue:

User avatar
Gustavo6046
Godlike
Posts: 1248
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:08 pm
Personal rank: Zeta Group leader
Location: Brazil

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Gustavo6046 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:29 pm

UnrealGecko wrote:
Gustavo6046 wrote:Yeah, it fits better for AS. I am just waiting for the editor to make the path nodes and goin' to rip some music what I can from Anvil Studio.
How to make music in OpenMPT without a MIDI keyboard?
For AS I guess it could work, but you'll need to make it longer, because right now it might take 20 seconds to reach the end. :tongue:
Now it is longer :)
It is based on a Return to Castle Wolfenstein map where you grab secret docs and communicate them.
So, here it goes.
EDIT: I actually had to grab a music in Free Music Archive, because I don't know how to make industrial music! Also there is that classical but unsolved problem of "music runs, 30 seconds it loops"!

User avatar
Hellkeeper
Inhuman
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:32 pm
Personal rank: Soulless Automaton
Location: France

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Hellkeeper » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:24 pm

Gustavo, what's the deal with pathing. Are you downright insane?
Also, what's the deal with your geometry, are you mad?

I'm sorry, I really am, I would like to say something positive to help you but I can't. To me, it feels like you just don't know how to use the editor properly. Right now, it looks like you're at least a few hard working months' away from being able to release an ok map, and yet you keep releasing things which are just unacceptable. You need to work a lot.

Look, I don't know how you path your map or how you have the engine path it for you, but forget about it. Pathing is something which is EASY and, given that your map is really small, can be done in 5 minutes top. You just put pathnodes on the ground, with about 180 uu between them, covering every walkable area (right now, parts of your map are not pathed, others have tons of nodes next to each others), and then you build, it requires exactly NO WORK and 0 BRAIN POWER. You just put one pathnode and the ground, duplicate it, move it, duplicate, move, duplicate, move, until there's a good coverage.

As for geometry, do not, I repeat, do not just rotate brushes when you want to make weird angles and so forth. Learn to use the clipping tool brush and, most importantly, VERTEX EDITING (tutorial here). You are doing just about everything that is wrong right now.

And finally, stop releasing maps, no giving a single fuck about what people say about it and call it a day. It's infuriating for people trying to help you, it doesn't help you progress at all. Worst of all, someone who does everything wrong but listens to others is a new mapper who will become good. Someone who does everything wrong and is happy with himself is a bad mapper who looks like an ass and will become a nuisance.
You must construct additional pylons.

User avatar
Gustavo6046
Godlike
Posts: 1248
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:08 pm
Personal rank: Zeta Group leader
Location: Brazil

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Gustavo6046 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:56 pm

You are the infuriating ass! Sorry, but you just made me so angry!!!! Mods please help. I need a cup of tea...

User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
Posts: 5536
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:13 am

Gustavo6046 wrote:Yeah, it fits better for AS. I am just waiting for the editor to make the path
I was doing once the same thing and everything went downhill. I had to fix manually what was Editor messing up...
You should listen more at people with some experience in front of you rather that producing files with extension unr and talking craps which no one is interested. But of course is part of UT cycle, each new modders are producing garbages and then are retreating because "UT is messed up" or finding excuses for their dumb failures. I did not experiment more things at geometry or making a lot of stuff, but I can see (even with less experience) how goes your stuff. BTW, BP5 annoyed in which stage did arrive ?

UTX
Skilled
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:39 am

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by UTX » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:37 am

Gustavo6046 wrote:You are the infuriating ass! Sorry, but you just made me so angry!!!! Mods please help. I need a cup of tea...
No Gustavo, seriously, it's just you. What Hell Keeper said is correct, he's not the only one who thinks that way, your maps are bad and you're just wasting everyone's time. We don't have to sugar coat it for you, they suck. You just got into this, it's normal, but your childish attitude makes it all worst.

Image

You need to practice a lot.

User avatar
Renegade
Adept
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 3:01 am
Personal rank: Vigilante
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Renegade » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:17 am

UTX wrote:
Gustavo6046 wrote:You are the infuriating ass! Sorry, but you just made me so angry!!!! Mods please help. I need a cup of tea...
No Gustavo, seriously, it's just you. What Hell Keeper said is correct, he's not the only one who thinks that way, your maps are bad and you're just wasting everyone's time. We don't have to sugar coat it for you, they suck. You just got into this, it's normal, but your childish attitude makes it all worst.

You need to practice a lot.
Lighten up on the kid. According to his profile, he's twelve. I understand the hostility because it looks like he's unwilling to learn, but he will progress, and he has in fact has listened to some of the advice given on this board. He's excited about creating maps and wants to share with a community. There are maps that see frequent online play that are at least on par with the map he released, so it might be difficult for him to gauge what we see as "good" here, and what he's used to playing. There are loads of maps all over the web that are crappy one-cube creations that are probably worse that what he released, too. Hostility helps no one.

That said, Gustavo, take a good look at your map and compare it to stock UT maps (Agony, Deck16, etc.). You need to put some serious effort into creating something more cohesive and playable and nice to look at. Don't release something here on the forums until you're confident that what you're creating is at least AS GOOD as some of the stock UT maps. Open up those maps on UnrealED and see how they're built. Look at their geometry and try to recreate it.

Read some tutorials: http://www.oldunreal.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tutorials
Just keep improving.

Higor
Godlike
Posts: 1832
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:47 pm

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Higor » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:13 am

Terrain mapping is one of the areas where the highest levels of expertise are required when it comes to BSP geometry.
Learning is mostly trial and error... massives amounts of trial and error.
ONCE you've done that, go advanced.

Don't scold him on brushing, DO scold him on pathing :loool:
The further the PathNodes are from each other (as long as they connect), the better.
Break the distance rule if putting nodes away harms utility (T section tunnels or obstructions that require low distance between nodes).

And if you have Unreal 1 maps (single player), open them in the editor, that shows you how mappers had to handle themselves at 1997 lol.
ImageImage
Image unreal://23.111.157.138:7777
Image unreal://46.228.199.205:7788

User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
Posts: 5536
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:51 am

Renegade wrote:There are loads of maps all over the web that are crappy one-cube creations that are probably worse that what he released, too. Hostility helps no one.
And this is a contest as I can read in title. When some people distract you, you should listen. If others did a trash and I have a better trash I cannot be satisfied - it's still trash. Or maybe you did not see?
Let's say I can get over Geometry + dumb pathing and let's see pickups. Any reason to do this mess?
[attachment=0]What_s_Here.PNG[/attachment]
Anyone can learn without releasing useless files being better each day. But first, the head must be get down from clouds + 12 years old and writing some adult bullshit here and there leads nowhere. DO NOT Protect these habits + What says EULA for playing ON-LINE (Minimum 18 Years old ?) - I cannot expect too many wise things from 12 years old after all.
But let's get over these and let's speak about MAP. Go load it and enjoy it if you think is good for any of your server. I'll bet in 10 minutes some player will ask you to remove it, which means is NOT a MAP and neither for contest presentation.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
papercoffee
Godlike
Posts: 9998
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:36 am
Personal rank: coffee addicted !!!
Location: Cologne, the city with the big cathedral.

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by papercoffee » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:07 pm

There is no rule that only mapping pros can participate at the contest!!
He has lot of time to fix his map and make it even better. He is a noob, who has the guts to create maps in UEd2, not really very common nowadays (especially for a 12 year old)... We all know how retarded the editor act sometimes.

@Gustavo
Listen to this guys the know what they are doing and saying ...Learn and make this map better.

User avatar
editor Dave
Inhuman
Posts: 903
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:40 pm
Personal rank: Slave of SP Mapping
Location: Germany/Bavaria

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by editor Dave » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:20 pm

I haven't loaded Gustavo's map yet, but what I can see from sektor's latest screenshot it seems Gustavo doesn't even try to improve. Being twelve or not, he should be old enough to judge wether his item placement is done right or not. It clearly is not and he is able to move stuff (such as his brushes), so why did he not do that? Then I see the brushes are not on 16 grid for no reason and he still doesn't use Vertex Editing. I know it's an advanced technique, but his layout sometimes requires it to dumb down errors. So either he attempts a simpler layout or he gets used to vertex editing. We often told him how to do it correctly or linked tutorials.
Me and my friends started mapping with 13-14. Even though we released our first products, we knew it wasn't on par with the stock Unreal maps, but we succeeded in making a somewhat unique, but above all stable and playable map on which we could improve upon with the help of the community afterwards. All I can see here is tiny responses to the feedback we provide, but ignoring the basics. I do think HellKeeper's tone was a bit exaggerated, but that's him I guess. :lol:

Anyways, Gustavo, good luck on your entries! You have a lot of time to improve your maps!
Image
10-Year Anniversary on Jun 08, 2019.

User avatar
Gustavo6046
Godlike
Posts: 1248
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:08 pm
Personal rank: Zeta Group leader
Location: Brazil

Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Gustavo6046 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:27 pm

Sorry people.
I actually forgot to better the item placement. I should take another look; It was almost midnight!

Now I can be calm and work better on it. I had to finish the radio room before sleep time! Why did I release it?? I don't remember what was I thinking I would do, I should been playing something that time. But now I have 10 hours to work it, and only school can stop me! Oh, the school...

EDIT: How to fix the 30-second loop on the music?
I have now used vertex editing like people suggested, to make some rooms better. It is still in an not-very-good and possibly early stage, but it is quite playable. Only remains the defenders spawn point, though I might need inspiration for that...

EDIT 2: I just leaked another demo! Fixed items, brushes on 8-grid, something playable and quite stable, rebuilt twice (the first time there were a little HOM, that was fixed), and... can you find the Redeemer?

EDIT 4: I love to leak my projects!
Last edited by Gustavo6046 on Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.