My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Tutorials and discussions about Mapping - Introduce your own ones!
Emandion
Average
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:59 am

My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Emandion »

Presenting Facility: Delta - named as such because it's my fourth map recently. (But the first I've completed)

I know things aren't perfect - for example, there are no pathnodes due to the central part of the map. Since I can't figure out how to make bots jump, I have (as for the moment, at least) left it as players only.

Textures are a little bland, I've tried to spice it up with some architecture. Lighting sucks, I'm working on more realistic lighting.. I mainly want other peoples opinions, specific pointers on where everybody feels I'm going wrong (because let's face it, this map is far from anything major)

Screenshots: http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/9200 ... otscl9.png
Download: http://files.filefront.com/CTF+Deltaunr ... einfo.html

Be as critical as you like, I'll resume work on it once I get some advice and feedback. Consider this a Beta Release of sorts. So the more advice and feedback I get, the better. Thanks!
Last edited by Emandion on Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Creavion
Godlike
Posts: 4497
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:23 pm
Personal rank: About to be non-act.
Location: Germany, Lower Saxony

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Creavion »

I am lazy, I quote myself
You are a beginner, forget this with the "personal view", its only subjective and in your case REALLY EVIL (no further comments), by the way, you forgot one of the most imporant categories.. Lighting. And this is clearly noticeable. Read the tutorials and get your personal first enlightenment.


My rating (reading at one's own risk):





Textures: 2/10
Architecture: 1/10
Layout: from the pic uuhhm 1/10
Playability: from pic maybe 2/10
Lighting: 0.5/10
Overall: 1/10
About to be non-active
My very last UT map project: CTF-FacePalm (tropical CTF-Face remake)
Why do I leave? click here
What I want to do next: Joining an UDK team (uncertain however) and improve 3D modelling and texture editing skills
Thanks to those who visibly supported me until/at the end!
My reactivated account on indiedb.com.
User avatar
Dare
Inhuman
Posts: 899
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:26 pm
Personal rank: UT99 God
Location: England FTW
Contact:

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Dare »

I like it... o.O?
Image
Image
User avatar
Creavion
Godlike
Posts: 4497
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:23 pm
Personal rank: About to be non-act.
Location: Germany, Lower Saxony

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Creavion »

Dare.. dont spam, either you post a real comment or you post nothing...
About to be non-active
My very last UT map project: CTF-FacePalm (tropical CTF-Face remake)
Why do I leave? click here
What I want to do next: Joining an UDK team (uncertain however) and improve 3D modelling and texture editing skills
Thanks to those who visibly supported me until/at the end!
My reactivated account on indiedb.com.
Emandion
Average
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:59 am

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Emandion »

Creavion - Thanks for the honest opinion, that's all I ask for. However - no offence - you seemed to have missed the key point. You're posting tutorials, which I don't really care for (okay, wrong phrase, I do, as they give good hints and advice, but they're WAY too linear and don't really leave room for much.. Because of this, tutorials show the opinions of a single player. I posted the map here to obtain the opinions of MULTIPLE players, which will give me a better overview of what needs changing)

What do YOU think could be improved? (And please, don't be generic, and don't hold back)

And yeah. I did forget lighting.. My bad. Oopsie ^_^;

And yeah, you're right, it IS subjective.. I guess I was comparing it to maps I've attempted before (which were never completed, due to the fact they weren't going too well.. I guess I should've taken that into account, huh?)
Last edited by Emandion on Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Creavion
Godlike
Posts: 4497
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:23 pm
Personal rank: About to be non-act.
Location: Germany, Lower Saxony

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Creavion »

Sry, but the lighting of your map is simply a catastrophe, you have made the typcial mistakes, which are mentioned in DavidMs tutorial, I have linked you to it because I think you have to fix this... really.

I can not list what you can do better, it makes no sense in your case. You are generally a beginner, in a later phase with rising mapping skills, .. .yes but not at this moment.
About to be non-active
My very last UT map project: CTF-FacePalm (tropical CTF-Face remake)
Why do I leave? click here
What I want to do next: Joining an UDK team (uncertain however) and improve 3D modelling and texture editing skills
Thanks to those who visibly supported me until/at the end!
My reactivated account on indiedb.com.
User avatar
Herr Gabriel
Novice
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:28 pm
Personal rank: Mapper
Location: Henstedt-Ulzburg
Contact:

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Herr Gabriel »

1) You demanded feedback. Creavion gave you feedback. Tutorials are there to be read, to be understood, to be used. You could definately use them.
2) Tutorials do not "reflect" the oppinion of a player or whatsoever. DavidM made a few pretty good tutorials back then, which have nothing to do with his view of beauty or oppinion.
3) By posting the tutorials, Creavion gave you a little hint at what could be improved in your map. It's not always like "paste a light with radius >9000 here, paste a gheylight there".
4) I think you need to improve your brushwork as well. You are way too static. The game is called "Unreal Tournament", remember? So make some unreal and awesome architecture.
Feed the trolls.
Emandion
Average
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:59 am

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Emandion »

Herr Gabriel - I think you got the wrong idea.. I'm not quite looking for "place this there and this there".. I'm looking for something more along the lines of, I dunno, random example.. "I don't quite really like the way you've got pillars breaking up the corridors, you should try something else. Also, maybe add some holes in the roof and make a skybox".

I don't want people telling me exactly what to do, just pointing me in the right direction, which - I'm not sorry to say - Tutorials don't really seem to do that often. They're way too linear, I find (Maybe that's due to my autism? I don't know.. Not using that as an excuse, just trying to explain myself that's all)

But yeah, I think you have a good point there on the whole Unreal Tournament thing.. I'll see what I can do.
User avatar
Herr Gabriel
Novice
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:28 pm
Personal rank: Mapper
Location: Henstedt-Ulzburg
Contact:

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Herr Gabriel »

Really. The best way to improve is to look at good maps. Play them. With and without players. Open it up in the Editor. Try to figure out, what makes this map so great. And finally, try to find your own style which rocks peoples minds.

I'm not quite sure if you are understanding what we are trying to tell you...
Feed the trolls.
User avatar
Creavion
Godlike
Posts: 4497
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:23 pm
Personal rank: About to be non-act.
Location: Germany, Lower Saxony

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Creavion »

Ok, I try it on a different way.. these tutorials were written to deliver .. no let us say noobs ... the basics of mapping, if they understand these basics they can get direct help and support for their maps but the fact is, you didn`t learn the basics yet.
It is very simple: Read the tutorials, understand the context and try to make it better the next time.
About to be non-active
My very last UT map project: CTF-FacePalm (tropical CTF-Face remake)
Why do I leave? click here
What I want to do next: Joining an UDK team (uncertain however) and improve 3D modelling and texture editing skills
Thanks to those who visibly supported me until/at the end!
My reactivated account on indiedb.com.
Emandion
Average
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:59 am

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Emandion »

Alright, for one, I really don't want to appear rude here, but if you have something to say, type it in a regular font size. I'm not going to be insulted by what you're saying. CTRL+Scrolling is somewhat a bother just to read what you've put.

I understand the whole "Open up other maps and see what you like" thing, but I don't really want to look at other maps and take ideas from them.. I know it won't really make me a "copycat" of sorts, but in my mind it does. I don't quite know if you understand what I'm trying to say here. Maybe we're just two different players with conflicting opinions? I don't quite know. Maybe.

I think maybe I've come across as somewhat big-headed so far? Maybe I've come across as somebody that seems to think I know what I'm doing? Truth is that 1) I don't really know too much (I'll be the first to admit that any day of the week) and 2) I'm rather unorthodox. My methods differ greatly from others and I guess sometimes that just causes conflict and misunderstandings.

Maybe I didn't describe what I'm after good enough. I'm after people telling me that my map is a piece of cow turd that a three year old could replicate in half the time it took me to build it - If that's what you honestly think. I guess Creavions response just un-nerved me a little because - from how I saw it - (site mod or no site mod, I'm not afraid to express my opinions where authority is concerned) he didn't really leave feedback, just a few tutorials, due to the fact that (as said by him) he was lazy. Which somewhat offended me to a degree.

Treat others as you want to be treated, one might say.. His response would not be a response I would ever give to others. I guess that's what caused my reaction. I'm back to working on Delta now, my first aim is lighting improvement. Then I'm going to work on the architecture some more. Maybe - if it doesn't work - scrap it altogether maybe. I don't know, we'll have to see.

And to Creavion, sorry to be repeating myself, but I've read the tutorials. However, again, they don't really explain much. They just direct. "Do this. Do that. Put this here. Edit this value. There you go, done." - If that helps you, so be it. But it doesn't help me too much.
User avatar
Herr Gabriel
Novice
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:28 pm
Personal rank: Mapper
Location: Henstedt-Ulzburg
Contact:

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Herr Gabriel »

So be it.

Your map is a piece of cow turd that a three year old could replicate in half the time it took you to build it.
Feed the trolls.
User avatar
Creavion
Godlike
Posts: 4497
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:23 pm
Personal rank: About to be non-act.
Location: Germany, Lower Saxony

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Creavion »

What.. "Copycat"? Are you sure, what you are saying? Even professional gamedesigners get their ideas (inspirations) from other games, films, books or other media.
Man, I dont want to explain you how a brainstorm result.


So you did read the tutorials ? I can`t believe it really...

@Herr Gabriel: Please stay constructive and stick to facts!
About to be non-active
My very last UT map project: CTF-FacePalm (tropical CTF-Face remake)
Why do I leave? click here
What I want to do next: Joining an UDK team (uncertain however) and improve 3D modelling and texture editing skills
Thanks to those who visibly supported me until/at the end!
My reactivated account on indiedb.com.
User avatar
Herr Gabriel
Novice
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:28 pm
Personal rank: Mapper
Location: Henstedt-Ulzburg
Contact:

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Herr Gabriel »

Creavion wrote:@Herr Gabriel: Please stay constructive and stick to facts!
Wait for it:
Emandion wrote:Maybe I didn't describe what I'm after good enough. I'm after people telling me that my map is a piece of cow turd that a three year old could replicate in half the time it took me to build it
When you see it, you'll shit bricks!
Feed the trolls.
User avatar
Creavion
Godlike
Posts: 4497
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:23 pm
Personal rank: About to be non-act.
Location: Germany, Lower Saxony

Re: My first complete creation for a long time - CTF-Delta!

Post by Creavion »

ok , I did read it over... my fault.. in this case its ok... :ironic:
About to be non-active
My very last UT map project: CTF-FacePalm (tropical CTF-Face remake)
Why do I leave? click here
What I want to do next: Joining an UDK team (uncertain however) and improve 3D modelling and texture editing skills
Thanks to those who visibly supported me until/at the end!
My reactivated account on indiedb.com.
Locked