UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

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Dr.Flay
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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by Dr.Flay » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:14 am

@OjitroC the credits go to Epic and the devs that made the original game, as well as FnB.
FnB is the author of this map, but did not "make" the contents of the map. He edited many together to make 1 map

This was probably his most ambitious project, and due to being made from existing maps could only ever be a compromise, which is why it is not as polished as his regular maps, though still betetr than most peoples
It was also rushed for a competition.

Fixed pathing needs a lot of playtesting due to the size of this beast.

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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by OjitroC » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:34 am

Dr.Flay wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:14 am
@OjitroC the credits go to Epic and the devs that made the original game, as well as FnB.
FnB is the author of this map, but did not "make" the contents of the map. He edited many together to make 1 map
Yes, I know :P - I've read the readme, the blurb on his website etc a number of times - FNB is quite clear about that and gives extensive credits to the makers of the maps used as well as to those who made the decos and textures used. I would argue that his role went (well) beyond 'editing' but that's a semantical and semantic rabbit hole down which it would be both unwise and unproductive to venture.

I merely seek to draw attention to the potential limitations on the use of the map that the creator has highlighted (and to ensure that any criticism takes account of those potential limitations).
EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:50 am
One interesting thing on the map I've noticed is I couldn't telefrag a UTDMT. A message popped up saying it wasn't possible to telefrag monsters.
That's odd - it's nothing to do with the map per se nor with the UTDMT. To test, start the map empty (no bots, no 'monsters' etc), summon a UTDMT and telefrag it. So it's down to what mutators you are running and/or any other stuff added to the map.

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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:36 am

OjitroC wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:34 am
EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:50 am
One interesting thing on the map I've noticed is I couldn't telefrag a UTDMT. A message popped up saying it wasn't possible to telefrag monsters.
That's odd - it's nothing to do with the map per se nor with the UTDMT. To test, start the map empty (no bots, no 'monsters' etc), summon a UTDMT and telefrag it. So it's down to what mutators you are running and/or any other stuff added to the map.
Huh, that's weird.

So I wasn't using any unusual mutators, just my normal ones and they've got nothing to do with telefragging.

I went to the original map and summoned a UTDMT, and then telefragged it no problem... so I then went to my edited version and went to one of the UTDMT on it and tried to telefrag it but ran into the same issue as before, same warning message and everything.

No idea what that's about. Could it have something to do with the UTDMT being edited directly onto the map instead of being summoned?
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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by OjitroC » Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:01 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:36 am

No idea what that's about. Could it have something to do with the UTDMT being edited directly onto the map instead of being summoned?
Not directly but it is to do with UTDM Warlords and UTDM Skaarj Berserkers being in the map. Each of the UTDM 'monsters' spawns a mutator (to prevent them picking up items) - the mutator for the Warlord and SB also contains the following

Code: Select all

function bool PreventDeath(Pawn Killed, Pawn Killer, name damageType, vector HitLocation) 
{ 
 // prevent telefragging of monsters 
 if(Killed.IsA('ScriptedPawn') && Killer.Weapon.IsA('Translocator')) 
 { 
 Killer.ClientMessage("Sorry, Monster Telefragging is not allowed, you must use conventional weapons."); 
 return True; 
 } 
 return Super.PreventDeath(Killed,Killer,damageType,HitLocation); 
}
This will prevent ANY monster (ScriptedPawn) in the map from being telefragged. Oddly (or perhaps not?) that code isn't in the UTDMTmutator (the one spawned by the DM Titan).

So basically in any map with just DM Titans you can telefrag monsters - in maps with DM Warlords or SBs you can't telefrag any monsters.

To test, open a clean version of the map (no scriptedpawns, etc) - summon a UTDMSB and try to telefrag it - the Killer.ClientMessage should appear. Restart the map and summon a UTDM Titan - try to telefrag it, you should be able to do so (well, we know we can as we have done that before). Try it again with the UTDM SB - kill it - summon a UTDM Titan and try to telefrag it.

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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:39 pm

I had much the same thought, after I then went after the UTDMW and UTDMS and got the same result... but then I remembered the map already had a monster on it I didn't add.

Popped down into the secret Christmas room on the map I edited, tried to telegrag the StoneTitan... and I got that message again. So it's not that... but just to be sure, I went back to the original map and then down to that Christmas room and tried it again.

AND IT WORKED!

I have a theory: The only other thing I did to the map so far (there's an upside down texture I feel compelled to fix) is in order to put UTDMT into the tunnels I had to remove the BlockAll from each tunnel, so they could attack people that came near a tunnel and players could shoot back at them. Now, each tunnel has a ZoneInfo... which I did nothing to.

I haven't actually checked it yet, but if removing the BlockAll allows players to go in and out of the tunnels is it possible it also extends the range of those 4 ZoneInfo to the rest of the map?
OjitroC wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:01 pm
So basically in any map with just DM Titans you can telefrag monsters - in maps with DM Warlords or SBs you can't telefrag any monsters.
Or possibly that, which is weird as I have telefragged both of those on other maps... least I think I have.

MORE TESTS!
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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by OjitroC » Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:03 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:39 pm
I had much the same thought, after I then went after the UTDMW and UTDMS and got the same result... but then I remembered the map already had a monster on it I didn't add.

Popped down into the secret Christmas room on the map I edited, tried to telegrag the StoneTitan... and I got that message again. So it's not that... but just to be sure, I went back to the original map and then down to that Christmas room and tried it again.

AND IT WORKED!
If you read what I said again and read the code in the mutators for the UTDM Warlord and SB, you will see that if you have a map with either or both of those on then you will not be able to telefrag ANY scriptedpawn in the map (not just those two but any monster in the map as the code prevents that) - so no you can't telefrag the StoneTitan if you have a UTDM Warlord and/or SB in the map and yes you can telefrag the StoneTitan if you don't have both of those in the map. You can also telefrag the StoneTitan if you have a UTDM Titan in the map as the code for the Titan mutator doesn't have the 'prevent telefragging' function in it.

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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:26 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:03 pm
If you read what I said again and read the code in the mutators for the UTDM Warlord and SB, you will see that if you have a map with either or both of those on then you will not be able to telefrag ANY scriptedpawn in the map
Noted, and tested, and confirmed. Kinda cool actually, makes things more interesting and spares monsters needless telefrag problems.

In other news, in looking to contact Frag (for the aforementioned permissions) I popped over to his site and found that this map has an open invitation on it to be edited by anyone. Turns out some of the connection issues detailed by some further back in this thread can be attributed to this. Frag never tested the map for online usage, though he suspected it might be a bit of a memory hog and cause some problems. He said anyone who thinks they can fix that is welcome to try.

Mostly all I've done it add players to it, but I will be running my edit for an assessment over at HoF as soon as i'm done with it. Having some familiarity with the multiple maps that are in EpicTown I've noted by bot behavior the pathing is the same as on those different maps in their own sections. That can probably be enhanced.
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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by OjitroC » Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:49 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:26 pm
.. Kinda cool actually, makes things more interesting and spares monsters needless telefrag problems.

Just to be clear - it actually prevents them from being killed by the translocator and won't prevent any other telefragging problems. Remember that it will stop monsters spawned by BadNews from being telefragged (with the translocator) and that, should you want to take advantage of this in other edits, the UTDM Titan mutator doesn't have that function.
EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:26 pm
I popped over to his site and found that this map has an open invitation on it to be edited by anyone.
Yes, that's what I pointed out here 30#p125056 :P though it is as well to emphasise that.
EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:26 pm
... Frag never tested the map for online usage, though he suspected it might be a bit of a memory hog and cause some problems.
I suppose the crucial part of what FNB says is that the map "was never intended (emphasis added) for online play ... would need to lighten the map considerably in order for it to work properly online" (which I take to mean that it wasn't 'designed' with online play in mind, with all that entails, and that parts of it would need to be removed and the actor load reduced as well?). Sektor has indicated that the ReachSpec count needs to be reduced - will be interesting to see if he can get it down to 2800 and achieve full access to all parts of the map by bots :P.
Last edited by OjitroC on Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by Gustavo6046 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:32 pm

Bots seem to be unable to use teleporters. It can't be just pathing -- thrusting them into the teleporters does nothing either! This does work in singleplayer, though. Hmm... odd. There ought to be a way to fix this.

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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by OjitroC » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:44 pm

Gustavo6046 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:32 pm
Bots seem to be unable to use teleporters. It can't be just pathing -- thrusting them into the teleporters does nothing either! This does work in singleplayer, though. Hmm... odd. There ought to be a way to fix this.
The teleporters do work off-line though I have had one crash which I think was caused by a scriptedpawn using a teleporter.

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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by Gustavo6046 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:17 pm

Yep, they do! I don't know about the ScriptedPawn issue, though.

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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:40 pm

That...
OjitroC wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:49 pm
Yes, that's what I pointed out here pr125056 :P though it is as well to emphasise that.
...link doesn't work. It goes to an edit page for me.
Gustavo6046 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:29 am
I remember hammering people and having it spawn Cows....err, nuclear warheads, more like!
That's a different mutator, I have that one.
Gustavo6046 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:32 pm
Bots seem to be unable to use teleporters.
My bots use the teleporters just fine. Hell, even the UTDMS and NPC use them.
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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by Gustavo6046 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:51 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:40 pm
Gustavo6046 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:29 am
I remember hammering people and having it spawn Cows....err, nuclear warheads, more like!
That's a different mutator, I have that one.
It's in BN4. Sometimes a Nali, sometimes a Cow, but only with the Hammer. And when it dies it goes le big boom.
EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:40 pm
Gustavo6046 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:32 pm
Bots seem to be unable to use teleporters.
My bots use the teleporters just fine. Hell, even the UTDMS and NPC use them.
I mean in multiplayer, silly!

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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by EvilGrins » Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:30 am

Gustavo6046 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:51 pm
It's in BN4. Sometimes a Nali, sometimes a Cow, but only with the Hammer. And when it dies it goes le big boom.
No, well there may be another version of it for that but i was talking a standalone mutator. Forget what it's called...
Gustavo6046 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:51 pm
I mean in multiplayer, silly!
So did I.
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Re: UT99.org EpicTown ShowDown - Get-Together Of The Century!

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:51 am

Bots won't use Teleporters in ANY NewNet mod so far, good luck, boys. You should be aware about what Buggie and Me were doing in those edited Deck16 versions, exactly, NewNet is just messing teleporters doing nothing helpful because NewNet disables original teleporters and adding BLIND specific teleporters out of pathing references. Not the last thing, reachspecs used by teleporters are discarding poorly brained creatures (test a Patrol and a Slith for moving through a teleporter out of player sight) - and because we have ZERO support for making paths in plain Uscript this won't be fixed unless map is edited properly (at once with other impossible paths and bad long-way lifts with missing triggers)... NewNet should have some C++ assets for completing the mess which is doing but I'm not aware of such things... Anyway Map works well under 4200 reachSpecs and... it's place for less spam - I think Bot support is fully doable here with 2020's toys - including NewNet support. But... first move is replacing ALL FavoritesTeleporters with NORMAL Teleporters because I don't see why would have these in such map:

Code: Select all

class FavoritesTeleporter extends Teleporter;

var() byte FavoriteNumber;

function PostBeginPlay()
{
	local class<menu> MenuClass;
	local UnrealFavoritesMenu TempM;

	MenuClass = class<menu>(DynamicLoadObject("UnrealShare.UnrealFavoritesMenu", class'Class'));
	TempM = UnrealFavoritesMenu(spawn(MenuClass));
	// FIXME (Help TIm?)
	//if ( FavoriteNumber < 12 )
	//	URL = TempM.Favorites[FavoriteNumber];
	Super.PostBeginPlay();
}
What Menu ? What f..k me oops, I mean "FixMe" ? "TIm" has no future plans here (which one anyway ?), go find some community dudes or call 911...
DynamicLoadObject is slow and POINTLESS... Why using it ? And so on...

Map is extremely good looking - I LIKE IT - but when it comes to some techs... it's... "different".

Note: Going to next MapGarbage update - replacing all selected FavoritesTeleporters with class "Engine.Teleporter" on user demand - it takes an eye-blink.
Last edited by sektor2111 on Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.