Important Warning about 227i Skeletal System

Maps, mods and resources ported from or to Unreal.
Must run in UT99 or with Oldskool Amp'd.
Unreal 227 only projects are "Off-Topic"
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Rikia
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Important Warning about 227i Skeletal System

Post by Rikia » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:32 am

fffd8.png
fffd9.png
In conclusion, I can say only things.

After these words of specialists(removed their names, because I don't know that they can allow to show them for now), familliar old crash in 2019 with UT2004 skins(which were tested on absolutely another machine), and other newer crashes with KonokoS and RedGirl skins(while all their common issues were removed), I doubt that the problem is exactly with skins.

The problem exactly can be with 227i skeletal system, which is complete mess judging by the words of specialists.

Better to wait 227j release, and only then start to seek the new problems.

And there is no problems with Botmatch mode on clean Unreal 227i.
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OLD POST
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I discovered that Unreal(227i) Botmatch mode is so unstable as it can turn Unreal completely unplayable after number of crashes.

The crashes in Botmatch mode aren't the fault of mods, because their reported sources always come from default Unreal actor/pawns.
How Unreal gets unplayable? The mouse is being badly controlable and you getting worse framerate. But the worst of all, Unreal just starts to get shutdown without any reason(no error message), but also it runs in the task manager.

The only mods I had installed, are the model ports with pretty safe package code that was written by SteadZ.

Maybe I can be wrong in something, but I just don't recommend you to play Unreal in Botmatch mode. If you want to play with bots, you would better to play UT.

Playing Unreal is only safe in the campaign mode.
And don't worry about singleplayer modding. It's a pretty good place to do your own works or test others.
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Last edited by Rikia on Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:51 am, edited 25 times in total.

ExpEM
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Re: Important Warning about Botmatch

Post by ExpEM » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:54 am

Are you talking about dots botpack port or vanilla 227i? I don't play vanilla but I use 227 with botpack for the majority of ut99 builds until final testing. I have never had a problem with stability in unreal either way.

Is your setup abnormal in any way?
What OS are you running?

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Rikia
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Re: Important Warning about Botmatch

Post by Rikia » Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:44 am

ExpEM wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:54 am
Are you talking about dots botpack port or vanilla 227i? I don't play vanilla but I use 227 with botpack for the majority of ut99 builds until final testing. I have never had a problem with stability in unreal either way.

Is your setup abnormal in any way?
What OS are you running?
I used Unreal Gold with correctly installed 227i (RtNP included) and I'm using Windows 10.

I was talking with experienced people and they said that all of Unreal crashes(with error report) that I got are generic for Unreal.
I mostly played on DM-Deck-16, and crashes were also there. But DM-Ariza was the last one where I played and got the final problems.

I took the 227i with RtNP that was only one on the OldUnreal site(if not count the classic patch) and there was a glitchy gamemode menu.

I never heard of botpack port that you are talking about.

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Re: Important Warning about Botmatch

Post by OjitroC » Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:40 pm

Pity you're getting those crashes.

I can only speak from my experience - I've played a lot of Unreal Gold in Botmatch mode recently, particularly since I discovered that MonsterSpawn works fine in Unreal and so I can use the Unreal-only ScriptedPawns. I haven't had any crashes or any other problems at all.

Selecting Botmatch brings up a lot of gametypes (for me, anyway) - what gametype(s) are you playing? And you get no errors in the log?

Have you tried changing the audio driver and the video renderer and see if you still get crashes?

When you installed the patch did you take account of this caveat?
Spoiler
Show
IF YOU WANT TO TRANSFER YOUR SETTINGS TO YOUR NEW INSTALLATION YOU HAVE TO COPY SPECIFIC LINES MANUALLY.
DO NOT TAKE OVER OLD UNREAL.INI AND USER.INI FILES FROM PREVIOUS INSTALLATIONS.
SOME SETTINGS HAVE BEEN CHANGED AND SOME SETTINGS ARE JUST MISSING THEN, THIS CAN CAUSE WEIRD SIDE EFFECTS AND EVEN CRASHES!

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Re: Important Warning about Botmatch

Post by Rikia » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:23 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:40 pm
Pity you're getting those crashes.

I can only speak from my experience - I've played a lot of Unreal Gold in Botmatch mode recently, particularly since I discovered that MonsterSpawn works fine in Unreal and so I can use the Unreal-only ScriptedPawns. I haven't had any crashes or any other problems at all.

Selecting Botmatch brings up a lot of gametypes (for me, anyway) - what gametype(s) are you playing? And you get no errors in the log?

Have you tried changing the audio driver and the video renderer and see if you still get crashes?

When you installed the patch did you take account of this caveat?
Spoiler
Show
IF YOU WANT TO TRANSFER YOUR SETTINGS TO YOUR NEW INSTALLATION YOU HAVE TO COPY SPECIFIC LINES MANUALLY.
DO NOT TAKE OVER OLD UNREAL.INI AND USER.INI FILES FROM PREVIOUS INSTALLATIONS.
SOME SETTINGS HAVE BEEN CHANGED AND SOME SETTINGS ARE JUST MISSING THEN, THIS CAN CAUSE WEIRD SIDE EFFECTS AND EVEN CRASHES!
Well...
I reinstalled Unreal Gold, then installed the 227i, and played it without any mods.
I was reloading the botmatch mode many times and did not get any crash in conclusion.

Then I tried to install one of my mods again and did the same things...
And only then I got this from the third botmatch reloading:
fjkfjkkj.png
It's completely weird, but it seems like I was desinformed, when I got words that these are "generic" Unreal crashes.

Looking to the numbers in crash report, I can guess that this is an object related to installed skin.

I remember the same problem with UT2004 skins that I was testing in 2019. I played with one skin and got crash when I tried to suicide from Flak cannon being hitted by it chunks.

My fault that I started to desinform others without checking that are the "generic" Unreal crashes truth, or not.

Also, that menu from clean version which seems suspicious to me:
fjkfjkkj2.png
Found the warnings, that I didn't noticed in previous logs(I remember that these warnings did not even exist back then):

Code: Select all

Warning: Failed to load 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS': Failed to find object 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS'
Warning: Failed to load 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS': Failed to find object 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS'
Warning: Failed to load 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS': Failed to find object 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS'
Warning: Failed to load 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS': Failed to find object 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS'
Log: 117240.6ms Loading: Package Female1Skins
Warning: Failed to load 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS': Failed to find object 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS'
Warning: Failed to load 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS': Failed to find object 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS'
Warning: Failed to load 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS': Failed to find object 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS'
Warning: Failed to load 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS': Failed to find object 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS'
Warning: Failed to load 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS': Failed to find object 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS'
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Re: Important Warning about Botmatch

Post by OjitroC » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:55 pm

Rikia wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:23 pm
Also, that menu from clean version which seems suspicious to me
Looks OK to me - that's what I get - though I think I've 'commented out' one or two of those gametypes in the relevant .int file. What seems suspicious to you?
Rikia wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:23 pm
Found the warnings, that I didn't noticed in previous logs(I remember that these warnings did not even exist back then):

Code: Select all

Warning: Failed to load 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS': Failed to find object 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS'
...
I think that's because it's looking for "Object=(Name=ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS,Class=Texture,Description="ONI KonokoS")" from ONIKonokoS.int and can't find it because it doesn't exist
Spoiler
Show
The int file
[Public]
Object=(Name=ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoSBot,Class=Class,MetaClass=UnrealShare.Bots,Description="ONI KonokoS")
Object=(Name=ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS,Class=Class,MetaClass=UnrealShare.UnrealIPlayer,Description="ONI KonokoS")
Object=(Name=ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS,Class=Texture,Description="ONI KonokoS")
I don't know if that would account for the crash.

The crash seems to be related to garbage collection - I don't know if you would get more info on the Object being deleted if you comment out Suppress=DevGarbage under [Core.System] in the Unreal.ini?

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Re: Important Warning about Botmatch

Post by Rikia » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:58 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:55 pm
Rikia wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:23 pm
Also, that menu from clean version which seems suspicious to me
Looks OK to me - that's what I get - though I think I've 'commented out' one or two of those gametypes in the relevant .int file. What seems suspicious to you?
Well, the gametypes were suspicious to me because these gametypes weren't made for botmatch.
OjitroC wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:55 pm
The crash seems to be related to garbage collection - I don't know if you would get more info on the Object being deleted if you comment out Suppress=DevGarbage under [Core.System] in the Unreal.ini?
You mean, I should remove that line from the .ini file?

Code: Select all

[Core.System]
PurgeCacheDays=0
SavePath=..\Save
CachePath=..\Cache
CacheExt=.uxx
UseCPU=0
Paths=..\System\*.u
Paths=..\Maps\*.unr
Paths=..\Maps\UPak\*.unr
Paths=..\Textures\*.utx
Paths=..\Sounds\*.uax
Paths=..\Music\*.umx
Paths=..\Meshes\*.usm
Suppress=DevLoad
Suppress=DevSave
Suppress=DevNetTraffic
Suppress=DevGarbage
Suppress=DevKill
Suppress=DevReplace
Suppress=DevSound
Suppress=DevCompile
Suppress=DevBind
Suppress=DevBsp
Suppress=DevNet
EDIT: Another unknown crap that does not seem being related to my mod.
fffd42.png
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Re: [MOD SUSPICIOUS][DESINFORMED]Important Warning about Botmatch

Post by Neon_Knight » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:43 pm

You should report that at OldUnreal. The authors of v227 are there.
Official (?) U1 v227/UT v469 .int and spanish localization fixer/maintainer. - Unreal Wiki
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Re: Important Warning about Botmatch

Post by OjitroC » Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:34 pm

Rikia wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:58 pm
Well, the gametypes were suspicious to me because these gametypes weren't made for botmatch.
Basically BotMatch is anything that isn't one of the 'campaigns' like Unreal, RTNP, etc. So no, they're OK to be there. Some of them you don't use of course - you can just stick with DeathMatch if you want.
Rikia wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:58 pm
You mean, I should remove that line from the .ini file?
No - just put a semicolon (;) without the brackets in front of Suppress=DevGarbage and there should be more information, hopefully, in the log about the garbage collection, etc. As I understand it those 'functions' are there for debugging so if you want info on, for example, what packages, textures and other stuff is being loaded and when, you can comment out Suppress=DevLoad. I've done this sometimes in UT as it can be interesting and useful.
Rikia wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:58 pm
EDIT: Another unknown crap that does not seem being related to my mod.fffd42.png
Yes, that's an odd crash - possibly to do with a renderer but, as Neon_Knight says, it should be reported.

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Re: [MOD SUSPICIOUS][DESINFORMED]Important Warning about Botmatch

Post by Rikia » Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:13 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:34 pm
No - just put a semicolon (;) without the brackets in front of Suppress=DevGarbage and there should be more information, hopefully, in the log about the garbage collection, etc. As I understand it those 'functions' are there for debugging so if you want info on, for example, what packages, textures and other stuff is being loaded and when, you can comment out Suppress=DevLoad. I've done this sometimes in UT as it can be interesting and useful.
https://www.oldunreal.com/phpBB3/viewto ... 664#p97664

Seems like that all of the shit which I'm getting is absolutely not related to the skins.

Then why the hell it starts happening only when the skins are installed?

Everything was normal on clean version.

EDIT: Can't catch object 24392 right now, but if it could be a skin, then it would be report more often than it got. Then this was another renderer glitch.

EDIT#2: Well, after talking with OldUnreal specialist, we made a conclusion that all of these were default Unreal troubles.

But we discovered a thing, that high number of crashes which you will get can break your game.
But it does not harm your computer and you can reinstall Unreal and it will get normally to play.

And the skins are not related to all of these problems.

But also, don't forget to remove extra packages from the .ini file, if you're making mods. Maybe it causes too much garbage in rebuilds.

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Re: Important Warning about Botmatch

Post by Rikia » Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:50 am

OjitroC wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:55 pm

Code: Select all

Warning: Failed to load 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS': Failed to find object 'Texture ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS'
...
I think that's because it's looking for "Object=(Name=ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS,Class=Texture,Description="ONI KonokoS")" from ONIKonokoS.int and can't find it because it doesn't exist
Spoiler
Show
The int file
[Public]
Object=(Name=ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoSBot,Class=Class,MetaClass=UnrealShare.Bots,Description="ONI KonokoS")
Object=(Name=ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS,Class=Class,MetaClass=UnrealShare.UnrealIPlayer,Description="ONI KonokoS")
Object=(Name=ONIKonokoS.ONIKonokoS,Class=Texture,Description="ONI KonokoS")
I don't know if that would account for the crash.
Well, if I try to change these lines the game gets completely slowed down and can get to crash.

I'm currently testing skins on other renderers.

EDIT: Weird, but log file did not has missing texture reports like which I got with KonokoS skin while I was testing KonokoFsrv skin(with wrong lines).

EDIT#2: After fixing the lines of KonokoS and RedGirl skins they did not made game slowed down like how it was made by KonokoFsrv skin.

But nothing is happy. Even after trying to remove KonokoFsrv skin, you can get shit with these others.

Gotcha! First crash related to goddamn skin:
fffd5.png
Other thing that I found, that the game runs better with DX9 renderer. But it still does not prepare you from crashes.

In conclusion, I can say only things.
fffd8.png
fffd9.png
After these words of specialists(removed their names, because I don't know that they can allow to show them for now), familliar old crash in 2019 with UT2004 skins(which were tested on absolutely another machine), and other newer crashes with KonokoS and RedGirl skins(while all their common issues were removed), I doubt that the problem is exactly with skins.

The problem exactly can be with 227i skeletal system, which is complete mess judging by the words of specialists.

Better to wait 227j release, and only then start to seek the new problems.
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