ChaosUT issues

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ChaosUT issues

Postby EvilGrins » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:02 am

With the current mapping contest I've loaded up ChaosUT on my system (had it like a decade or so back) and tested it on MonsterHunt.

1) ProxyMines do not go after monsters.
2) Turret ignores monsters.
3) Sword doesn't get bloody when fighting monsters.
4) Poison arrow doesn't poison the monsters.

Also, can't use "weapon stay" with Chaos running for some reason.

Anybody else run into these quirks? Or any others??
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby Terraniux » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:44 am

Well this is certainly interesting......... my map is going to be MH! :?
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby EvilGrins » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:56 am

Terraniux wrote:Well this is certainly interesting......... my map is going to be MH! :?

Well... the sword does kill monsters, just doesn't get bloody from them.

Poison arrows still kill monsters, but they're no more deadly than the normal arrows against them.

It's still doable.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby makemeunreal » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:16 am

Well. It must be the MH gametype that conflicts with chaos.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby Dr.Flay » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:16 am

Don't forget that the maps should be made for regular weapons, but I do see the problem if you do want to run the mutator.
The crossbow also fires exploding arrows which would be more use in MH, as you basically have a sniper rocket launcher.
Ammo will cycle, so you will have to wait or revisit a spot.
You can easily use one of MrLoathsomes mutators to add ammo as dropped items from killing a monster or breaking a crate.

@EvilGrins Are you using the v1 or final 1.1 ?

How can you tell the poison is not working ? You can easily survive poisoning if you have full strength.
For balance it does not do masses of extra damage, because you are almost blind while the poison works.
Pawns do not suffer with blindness anyway, and your monsters usually have a crazy health level.

The sword, proxies and turrets must be looking for something player specific to lock onto.
Try that mutator that puts all monsters on a team (could be one by MrLoathsome)
Not sure that his other mutator that makes the monsters turn on each other is a solution.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:26 am

I don't think that this Chaos do takes in account ScriptedPawn - not only MH. Sooner or later you'll get why I'm not mapping any "MH-Chaos" thing. Title is correct "ChaosUT issues". Good luck with contest !

Else, Monsters are not part of any team because they do not use PlayerReplicationInfo and those bTeamGame related stuff. They only have a Team byte which doesn't go nowhere. Loathsome did a virtual monster team by using... a BOT - read well - that is a Bot called TheMonsterTeam or such, and getting score from controller in kills occurrences, and then if is winner message is shown properly "TheMonsterTeam won the Match" but is about a Bot which is by default in game ended state. scoring when a creature is killing some valid player - those with PlayerReplicationInfo, but that solution has nothing in common with Chaos anyway.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby OjitroC » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:02 pm

As with any weapons package, each of the ChaosUT weapons is designed to be used (or is useful) in a limited range of situations. So, just as one would not (normally) use the UT minigun to fire accurately over a long range (instead using the sniper rifle), the crossbow firing poison arrows is more a stealth weapon than one to take on a group of monsters with. It is not a quick kill weapon, and even against players or bots, it may take two or three hits to kill them - it is of more use against an unsuspecting enemy, when one is able to put several poison arrow into them as they become slow and disoriented.

I wouldn't use proxies against monsters (or in fact in most situations) as the rate of launching is fairly slow (I don't like proxies anyway as bots tend to spam them so there are always loads of them bouncing around and being a nuisance).

ChaosUT weapons of choice in monster hunt would be : RPB sniper rifle (does a lot of damage at long or close range); armour piercing blue shotgun shells (the explosive shells do a lot of damage but are less accurate so could be used against a closely bunched group of monsters); the claw firing flak shells and, as Dr Flay suggests, the exploding arrows (useful against opponents coming straight at you, against a group or as another stealth weapon - less useful over a long range unless the target is stationary because of their speed of flight) - not forgetting the vortex.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby JackGriffin » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:14 pm

Chaos was written exclusively as a player vs player mod, it's going to have all kinds of problems when you try to use it in MH. Much like all the major weapons packs you will absolutely need to make an MH-friendly version if you want it to be right.You have to remember that "monsters ≠ bots" and cannot just be substituted back and forth. Advanced weapon coding will need to make checks and almost none will account for monsters unless the coder was designing them for use in MH type games.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby EvilGrins » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:26 pm

Dr.Flay wrote:@EvilGrins Are you using the v1 or final 1.1?

Final 1.1 version.
Dr.Flay wrote:How can you tell the poison is not working?

It's been awhile but I vaguely recall those show with the poison tend to move slower as they die, there's some visible effect... or I may be mis-remembering.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby Terraniux » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:27 pm

I'm struggling to see the advice here. What do Install / configure to make it work (more properly).
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby OjitroC » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:49 pm

Dr.Flay wrote: How can you tell the poison is not working ? You can easily survive poisoning if you have full strength.

I carried out an empirical test using the UTChaos mutators and summoning UnrealShare.LesserBrute/SkaarjWarrior and NSMonster.NSSkaarjWarrior/SkaarjInfantry/SkaarjTrooper into two maps (not CUT maps). I ran MHHud.MHHudBase so I was able to observe the health of the monsters.

Firing a poison arrow into any of the monsters used resulted in an instant reduction in health rather than the slow but steady reduction suffered by Players. I do not think it affected their speed of movement though I could only measure that by observation. Only once and only on one map did the sword become bloody after slicing up an opponent. This merely confirms what has been stated by earlier posters.

Terraniux wrote:I'm struggling to see the advice here. What do Install / configure to make it work (more properly).

I don't think there is anything you can do in that regard. But in terms of the specific issues with the weapons highlighted earlier, I don't think there is a significant problem. The sword will kill monsters but not get bloody - the proxies aren't useable but there is no way, AFAIK, to stop them cycling with the flak ammo; however players can still use the flak ammo in the claw - the crossbow is still useable with the explosive arrows in particular but again there is no way to stop the ammo cycling through ordinary, poison and explosive arrows. If you put a redeemer in the map then it will be replaced by the vortex and the turret, so that is something to consider given that the turret is not useable against monsters. Don't forget, though, that players can set the ChaosUT mod to cycle between Chaos and UT weapons.

Be sure to put sniper rifles and miniguns in the map so that players can use the RPBs and amour piercing shells! :lol:
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby EvilGrins » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:20 am

OjitroC wrote:
Terraniux wrote:I'm struggling to see the advice here. What do Install / configure to make it work (more properly).

I don't think there is anything you can do in that regard.

Not all mutators & mods are designed to interact so well. They're designed to work with Unreal Tournament but not necessarily with everything else designed to work with it.

ChaosUT is designed to largely work with Deathmatch and CTF, probably Assault too... to certain degrees.

My fave monsters, which I edit onto a lot of CTF maps, are the UTDMT. They're basically just large bots that look like Titans... but they don't work in MH either.

Just thought it worth noting, as many of us play MH, that not all aspects of ChaosUT works so well under MonsterHunt.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby Dr.Flay » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:46 am

1 way I can think to check the poison effect.
Pickup the vampire relic and see if you continue to gain health after shooting a pawn.

Proxies and turrets are mostly defence or suppression weapons made for team games, so even if they work properly would not be so useful.
The crossbow as noted is a sniper stealth weapon, and is very slow to reload so of limited use unless you use the explosive ammo.

If the mod is set to cycle the weapons with standard UT weapons, then you simply have the option of waiting or coming back when the weapon you prefer appears.

@Terraniux Make the map for regular UT MH, but with a Chaos theme. It should be completable with the regular UT weapons.
The Chaos weapons are bonus options you can pick or leave. You can carry all the regular weapons and the Chaos weapons.
Do all the UT weapons fit all MH maps ? How much use is the Enforcer in all MH maps ?
All weapons have advantages and disadvantages depending on the situation, but with Chaos you more than double the amount you can have.

When combined with holding a Relic you also have a set of superpowers to use.
You have a grappling hook, so getting to high places or getting away from trouble is easy and quick.
The grapple will also save you from being pulled into the vortex if you did not throw it far enough, and the gravity vortex is the most powerful weapon so you can easily kill a big boss or whole room of monsters in 1 go.

The rocket propelled rifle ammo is ridiculously deadly, and should be thought of as a Rail gun. The instant-travel bullet will continue through any number of enemies, so 1 bullet can do a lot of damage for a long distance.

As the mapper you set how often pickups and ammo spawn, so if you want more ammo, change the timing, or add more ammo.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby JackGriffin » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:53 am

EvilGrins wrote:they don't work in MH either.

And now I have my next project. Hit me up EG.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Postby Dr.Flay » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:40 am

JackGriffin wrote:
EvilGrins wrote:they don't work in MH either.

And now I have my next project. Hit me up EG.

DeathMatch Titan https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B-AaAvh ... t=download
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