ChaosUT issues

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OjitroC
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by OjitroC » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:13 am

Dr.Flay wrote:1 way I can think to check the poison effect.
Pickup the vampire relic and see if you continue to gain health after shooting a pawn.
That's a much more indirect way of checking than the direct method I posted about earlier and would be as much a test of the vampire relic as it would of the effect of the poison arrows.
Dr.Flay wrote: All weapons have advantages and disadvantages depending on the situation, but with Chaos you more than double the amount you can have.
That can be an advantage certainly but the slight downside is having to cycle through what are, in effect, 4 weapons in weapon slots 4, 5 and 7 and 3 weapons in slot 8 - which takes time and can be hazardous depending on the situation.

@Terraniux
The best approach to weapon placement in a MH map would be to think primarily in terms of which of the default UT weapons will be the most efficient having regard to the type, health, location etc of the monsters and then to consider whether their Chaos replacements would be equally as effective. This means that you may decide not to put some default UT weapons in the map such as the Enforcer (as Dr Flay suggests) or the Pulse rifle - the other factor to consider then is how much of an authentic Chaos experience you want to make it (should someome choose to play the map solely with Chaos weapons) as without the Enforcer (for example) there will be no sword.

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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by EvilGrins » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:26 pm

JackGriffin wrote:
EvilGrins wrote:they don't work in MH either.
And now I have my next project. Hit me up EG.
Only thing I'd like to hit you up on a related note is to make other large monsters similar to UTDMT.

WarLord & Queen mostly, possibly SkaarjBerserker.

You can get the version of the UTDMT I use from here · https://unreal-games.livejournal.com/114599.html
Dr.Flay wrote:1 way I can think to check the poison effect...
Poison effect is working on other players/bots. Despite them being on the same team, I can see them coughing up green gunk and hear them sick when they run by me. If not for the health regeneration, they might be able to be killed in MH from it.

Moving right along, turns out the Vortex will suck up players on my own team... but not monsters. Also somewhat annoying after using Vortex I can't use any other weapons unless I drop it first, normal switching doesn't work.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by OjitroC » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:07 pm

EvilGrins wrote: Moving right along, turns out the Vortex will suck up players on my own team... but not monsters. Also somewhat annoying after using Vortex I can't use any other weapons unless I drop it first, normal switching doesn't work.
... which means that if a redeemer is placed in a MH map, Chaos will replace it with the vortex and the turret, neither of which is of any use against monsters.

Players can choose to cycle between Chaos and UT weapons but will end up with 5 weapons in weapons slot 0 - I suppose they can always discard the vortex and turret launcher.

Leading on from this, I would suggest that the information in this thread on the limitations of Chaos weapons in MH is included in the readme file for a Chaos themed MH map.
Dr Flay wrote:Ammo will cycle, so you will have to wait or revisit a spot.
I've found that the ammo regenerator in NaliWeapons' MH mutator (NWMHExtrasVIII.NWMHMut) will generate/regenerate all the ammo types of multi-ammo weapons (such as the crossbow) without actually having to pick up all of those ammo types.

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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by papercoffee » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:02 pm

Stuff Swapper?

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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by OjitroC » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:18 pm

papercoffee wrote:Stuff Swapper?
You mean put those Chaos weapons that are useable in MH in a StuffSwapper config? Yes, that would be a kind of solution - but it wouldn't give the player the same chaotic and authentic Chaos experience that using the ChaosUT mod would. The other thing is that addresses the issues from the player's perspective rather than that of the mapper.

Like I said, I don't think there is a major probem, provided these issues are borne in mind by any MH mapper and made clear to potential players.

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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by papercoffee » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:52 pm

OjitroC wrote:
papercoffee wrote:Stuff Swapper?
You mean put those Chaos weapons that are useable in MH in a StuffSwapper config? Yes, that would be a kind of solution - but it wouldn't give the player the same chaotic and authentic Chaos experience that using the ChaosUT mod would. The other thing is that addresses the issues from the player's perspective rather than that of the mapper.

Like I said, I don't think there is a major probem, provided these issues are borne in mind by any MH mapper and made clear to potential players.
It would at least take out the weapons which won't work with MH.
Or ...fix them. I mean I wrote it somewhere else. But the Apron (tight pads replacement) doesn't work inside the FF mod but if you put the FF weapons and pickups into StSw it suddenly work as intended. :noidea
I have absolutely no clue why this happens ...maybe a coder Guru can explain that.

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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by OjitroC » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:45 am

A bit more on ChaosUT weapons and MH - I played 5 or 6 MH maps using the Chaos mod and found that, in most of them, the UT minigun did not get swapped and, in a couple, neither did the Pulse Gun.

On the Vortex - I did kill a U97 Dragon with it but not in a MH map (I was using MonsterSpawn in a DM map).

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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by EvilGrins » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:01 am

OjitroC wrote:On the Vortex - I did kill a U97 Dragon with it but not in a MH map
Must be a conflict specific to MonsterHunt then. Something about the environment of that gametype is not ChaosUT friendly.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by sektor2111 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:22 am

OjitroC wrote:A bit more on ChaosUT weapons and MH - I played 5 or 6 MH maps using the Chaos mod and found that, in most of them, the UT minigun did not get swapped and, in a couple, neither did the Pulse Gun.
That was 504 replacing those with others and this means that chaos doesn't use general swapping with ISA.

Code: Select all

if (Other.IsA('Minigun2'))
And then new weapon is not replaced.
I'm curious to see how many pages will have this topic until you all will understand that Chaos is not friendly with creatures and neither an error free thing. As a matter of fact I was explaining already somewhere that SeePlayer is never called for monsters (turrets and such) else in a MH map in first second monsters would slaughter each-other instantly - but not everyone has a logic of thinking - else some of those SP Levels would never work and MH would never exist, THAT simple. I've modified a cannon for such task when I was testing other monsters because that one is "blind", ignoring any super-duper setup with useless mutators except those pushers or a sort of extra A.I. task done for Chaos on purpose, SeePlayer will never have calls out of bIsPlayer pawns and default monster is never bIsPlayer except SkaarjTrooper more or less permanent depending on weapon taken or not. The rest of featured PlayerReplicationInfo has nothing that much with MH which uses One Team and Monsters. Okay, keep going, is fun to read and see "hopes" because me one I will never use any MH-Chaos mixed thing and I know what I'm saying.

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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by EvilGrins » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:08 pm

OjitroC wrote:using the Chaos mod and found that, in most of them, the UT minigun did not get swapped and, in a couple, neither did the Pulse Gun.
Along the same lines, the SnotGun/BioGun doesn't get so much replaced as it's eliminated entirely. Nothing takes its place, it's just gone.

Can't use UMOD anymore, so I did a manual install of ChaosUT, ran into a little problem I didn't notice before at first.

There's now a bunch of blank slots in the Game Type selection menu. No idea why or how to get rid of them.
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by papercoffee » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:37 pm

Tooo many mods and gametypes?

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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by OjitroC » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:36 pm

sektor2111 wrote: That was 504 replacing those with others and this means that chaos doesn't use general swapping with ISA..
So anyone wishing to play a MH map with ChaosUT will need to use MH version 5.3 (in which weapons do seem to be replaced correctly).
sektor2111 wrote: I'm curious to see how many pages will have this topic until you all will understand that Chaos is not friendly with creatures and neither an error free thing.
I do understand that but it is interesting to actually see what happens in practice, hopefully producing some useful information for anyone making a MH map to play with the Chaos mod.
EvilGrins wrote: Along the same lines, the SnotGun/BioGun doesn't get so much replaced as it's eliminated entirely. Nothing takes its place, it's just gone.
Actually the Bastard Sword replaces the BioRifle although they are in different weapon slots (I previously thought the sword replaced the enforcer). This means that any ammo for the BioRifle placed in a map will not be replaced and will be, of course, be unusable.
EvilGrins wrote:There's now a bunch of blank slots in the Game Type selection menu. No idea why or how to get rid of them.
Do the Chaos gametypes show up in your Gametype menu?

Another issue I have noticed - I think the Claw should cycle with the ProxyBox but in some MH maps it doesn't do that.

The sword does get bloody - slicing up default UT monsters anyway.

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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by EvilGrins » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:48 pm

papercoffee wrote:Tooo many mods and gametypes?
Don't think that's it, as those blank slots weren't there before I installed ChaosUT.

Also, while I do have a lot... I don't have that many.
OjitroC wrote:Do the Chaos gametypes show up in your Gametype menu?
That explains it, as they don't show up... but why are they blank?
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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by papercoffee » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:14 am

EvilGrins wrote:
papercoffee wrote:Tooo many mods and gametypes?
Don't think that's it, as those blank slots weren't there before I installed ChaosUT.

Also, while I do have a lot... I don't have that many.
OjitroC wrote:Do the Chaos gametypes show up in your Gametype menu?
That explains it, as they don't show up... but why are they blank?
I had this issue with doubles ...two MH versions in the same install and not a single one shows up in the list.

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Re: ChaosUT issues

Post by OjitroC » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:09 am

OjitroC wrote: Actually the Bastard Sword replaces the BioRifle although they are in different weapon slots (I previously thought the sword replaced the enforcer). This means that any ammo for the BioRifle placed in a map will not be replaced and will be, of course, be unusable.
I think the second part of that is wrong and that the BioSludge ammo is replaced by armour shards - checking the code would, of course, provide the answer.

@ EvilGrins - the Chaos gametypes are in ChaosGames.int - you probably don't have two of those but check out the other Chaos int files as you might possibly have something from an earlier version?