Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

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Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby PrinceOfFunky » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:15 am

It's a gun which can build lines of BlockAlls, you can then walk above it and use it as a bridge or a ladder, it can also block passages.
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby papercoffee » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:30 am

Very interesting. But you should use a different weapon model and a new skin and maybe box meshes instead of lens flares to make it more visible.
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby PrinceOfFunky » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:19 am

papercoffee wrote:Very interesting. But you should use a different weapon model and a new skin and maybe box meshes instead of lens flares to make it more visible.

I never made any weapon model/animation before, this is not a new weapon, it's the enforcer from Botpack package, it's just the mutator that changes what happens when it shoots. Just like the Grapple, it uses the translocator model, in this case you don't need to have two weapons, since swithing weapons can be confusional when having the grapple. I guess I should create some command like the MUTATE OFFHAND KEY for the grapple, or something like that.
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby papercoffee » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:45 am

I explain what I meant:
Mr Loathsome used the Pulse Rifle for his new Laser Rifle and I created the texture for the weapon and ammo. Now it's a totally new weapon, even so it uses the Pulse model.
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby SC]-[WARTZ_{HoF} » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:25 am

Didn't someone already make something like this before. I recall actual building blocks.
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby JackGriffin » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:55 am

My utility gun does this on my Unreal server. It spawns a line of platforms to let you cross a valley, climb up/down, etc. You can swap the "ammo" and it will shoot lights into the sky to let you see in dark maps. It will also trail out fireflies that search for hidden doors and let you know where they are. Don't laugh, I've found a ton in maps you would be surprised to know were there. I think mappers hide them as a way to move around secretly.

One thing I might suggest is giving anything you spawn with a gun like this a lifetime. My platforms, lights, etc all last 60 seconds. That way a player won't paint themselves into a corner they can't escape. It's fun to play with stuff like this, you wouldn't believe the shit scattered around maps that's otherwise invisible.
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby PrinceOfFunky » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:17 am

JackGriffin wrote:My utility gun does this on my Unreal server. It spawns a line of platforms to let you cross a valley, climb up/down, etc.

This answers what Wartz said:
SC]-[WARTZ_{HoF} wrote:Didn't someone already make something like this before. I recall actual building blocks.


JackGriffin wrote:Don't laugh, I've found a ton in maps you would be surprised to know were there. I think mappers hide them as a way to move around secretly.

Ah, I did hide a supershockrifle in DM-(POF)-Escher XD I don't remember if I removed it in the fix or viceversa.
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby ShaiHulud » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:13 am

Interesting concepts! Anyone interested in re-making Lemmings for UT? :) I jest
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby JackGriffin » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:28 am

That's funny, I just put MH-Lemmings on my server this morning because it was one map I don't think I've ever legit beaten.

On a serious note this is a project I've toyed with a *lot*. For about an hour there was a really vibrant community in UT2004 for the builder maps and I saw some really elaborate houses built. Getting that experience into UT would be something I'd love to do but I've never found a feasible way to do it. Cylinder collision and bad static mesh support just prevent any way of doing it that I can think of.
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby nogardilaref » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:31 pm

The real big issue in doing this in UT is not even the cylinder collision, but rather the rendering performance per part, and depending on how you do it, the used channels in online play if you do it the "easy" way replication-wise.
And adding to this there's the disappearing mesh problem when the pivot is not in your view.

However, there are some ways around these.

It certainly would never be anything like what you can do in UT2004, but you could use multiple cylinder collisions to approximate to the desired collisions (like multiple cylinders with the right sizes to be able to effectively build a ramp), although sparingly of course.

Then as for the rendering part, perhaps the canvas could be used instead, and here you would have full control of what is rendered and what isn't, and you could do so with a single actor, given that you can draw the same actor several times (although I never experimented on how this impacts overall rendering performance, it's probably the same, but it seems it fixes the disappearing mesh problem as well).

As for replication concerns, anything that has to do with creation or destruction of each part (actor) would be managed by a single actor, which would be the only actor with an open replication channel from the server to the client, and this one would be responsible to spawn and destroy actors in each side of the network. This limits on what you can change over time concerning a single part, since the manager would have to be aware of this, but then again it's a "part" which isn't meant to really change over time, and you want to have many of them, and this way you will have no replication problems at all.

In summary: there's some work to be done, as well as some experimentation, to be able to do something like this with some scale in mind at least. But it all comes down to multiplexing.
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby JackGriffin » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:58 pm

I'm curious, has anything been tried like this that was scaled up above a couple of test canvas drawings? I'd never really considered this way because it seems to me that it just wouldn't look right.

One thing I was considering was having a builder gun with a set series of meshes that you could scroll through and place/rotate. You could place some set number of items per "game" instance. Let's say 10 for this discussion. These wouldn't be lego blocks but more like pre-made decos like house, cabin, table, chair, etc. Once placed you could switch guns to your ColorPicker gun and select coloring for your chosen decorations so you could personalize them. Dynamic texture loading would allow clients to add their own stuff too like a sign in their driveway showing their house, stuff like that. Once you made your choices then the server would convert those placed decorations into code that will auto spawn at server reset with the chosen position, rotation, texture, etc. and then you are allowed to add more or mark existing decos for deletion. Each client will have a builder gun coded to their 'property' so they cannot mess up other people's houses but there would also be a common 'downtown' where collaboration could happen.

Larger meshes like houses would be converted to BSP and the map updated once they have remained for a couple of days without moving. Because most decorations would load dynamically the map size would remain small with the spawn data being replicated to the client via constantly updated ini file as people build things. It will also make it easy to manually edit if people want items changed. If the base structures are carefully made then it would also allow textural decorations easily, IE you could paint your house as you want.

I also considered having a builder server that would let you as a client open a demo map in editor and create your own property. Once you are happy with things you would upload that map to me and select your property. I would add that base setup to your yard and then you would be allowed to edit the common 'town' area in the same way. Think of it as a constantly updated mapper's map. This would also be done as a mixture of BSP and spawned decos via ini file.

I've done a ton of the base work on this. From the clan-only area and locking doors in the MHMVillage map to the entire concept of the Chaos mansion map I've been moving towards something like this for a long time. Years back when I made the MHM village I was very surprised at the amount of time players spent just hanging out. I watched players literally lie in bed and chat for hours in their houses, even have simulated sex when they thought the server was empty. The actual map was hardly played, instead the clan members would spend most of the time in the village redecorating their houses and adding things to do in the village.

Ah shit, post too long. Sorry :oops:
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby nogardilaref » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:39 pm

Yeah, things like small decoration from a catalog you could scroll by (maybe even search through) and then changing textures, sounds nice.

However, to do anything like that using BSP does not sound as good, specially because you have absolutely no way to fully prevent BSP errors in the first place, so all the stuff generated might as well result in a massive BSP clusterfuck that then it's up to you to resolve, so you probably want to stay away from that at all costs.
That does remind me of something else I plan in doing editor-wise though, but it is for actual developers (mappers and programmers) rather than for just players building stuff, but it's going to take a very long while until then.

Anyway, anything that is not fully automated, and thus requires some kind of human intervention to work, won't work well.

There was a project however, a long time ago, using movers instead. Other than the usual bugs they have (flickering polys), they tend to work well and excel in getting great collision hulls and fully act like BSP even when doing things like crouching.
So if you use movers with all polys invisible, and simply "attach" (sort to speak) a mesh to them corresponding to their sizes, you can actually do some nice things, even online.

There's a limit however on the number of vertices from all movers combined iirc (I may be mistaken though, as usual), and given that you cannot dynamically spawn them (at least I did experiment a bit with them once), you would essentially need to prepare a map with them.
However, if you build a mod where you subclass a mover and use that as the base, you can simply prepare some maps by filling them with these movers beforehand (with tons of duplication), and as for the limit, there could be a global budget divided by the players I think.
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby PrinceOfFunky » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:09 am

The collisionable dots don't need replication, the dots count is calculated basing on the length of the line which is calculated basing on 2 vectors, the only thing that should be replicated are the two vectors. In case the dots can be removed(e.g. by projectiles), to reduce the bandwith usage a String with "o" representing a dot and "x" representing a removed dot, could be replicated, or just a string containing the numbers of the removed dots separated by a comma.
About the minecraft-like gun, there's a gun doing exactly that called ToolGun in Garry's Mod, but I know nothing about UWindow classes(for the actors catalog) and that would require a lot of time I guess.
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby Chamberly » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:23 pm

SC]-[WARTZ_{HoF} wrote:Didn't someone already make something like this before. I recall actual building blocks.


Idk if you were talking about the one that was blocks that are built - size large/small and distance manageable but that is the one I have in mind!

Interesting concept POF, had some good laugh with that. :loool:
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Re: Builder gun (builds bridges and blocks passages)

Postby PrinceOfFunky » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:31 pm

Chamberly wrote:had some good laugh with that. :loool:

Is it that funny? :what: lol
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