Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

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Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby Aldebaran » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:12 pm

I have some deathmatch maps that are not optimized for instagib because they have special graphics (see picture) for the pickup places all over the map.
I am not a mapper right now so my simple question: can this graphics be removed automatically with a mutator before the maps start or are they fixed permanently with the other textures?

Example map is DM-Maris.
https://utfiles.overmindserver.net/inde ... ris1.1.zip
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pic.jpg
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby Barbie » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:35 pm

I'm afraid it will not work by code, because that graphic is a brush and the BSP tree is not accessible nor changeable via code at runtime - at least AFAIK.
DM-Maris-Brush.jpg
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby nogardilaref » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:06 pm

Well, you might be lucky, this is a map from Swanky himself, and he's generally active on this forum, so you can drop him a PM to try to request nicely to him if he can adapt the map for you or to give permission so you or someone else does it.
If he accepts it, you get the map as you want to for instagib, if not, well, then you will have to live with it.
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby Aldebaran » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:13 pm

Ok, thank you for the answers. There are more maps than DM-Maris with this pickup graphics so it makes no sense to change only this one. Therefore a better solution would be appreciated, but it seems I have to live with it.
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby nogardilaref » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:31 pm

Well, since you cannot remove them, you can turn that around and add to them instead, things like vases or other kind of decoration which may make sense, or something else entirely, use your imagination. :mrgreen:
They could also be covered with a custom mesh with the underlying BSP texture, although this is a bit more tricky to pull, and it would depend on decals to be enabled in the client or it wouldn't work well.

Either way, either you or someone else builds a mod specifically for these cases, or you will really have to live with it.
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby Cronoloop » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:59 pm

its a brush, so no code/mutator

step a) take map
step b) modify map
step c) rename map to avoid conflicts

enjoy.
oh and people will say "woah dude u cant just modify maps!" even though people have been doing that for 17 years :loool:
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby OjitroC » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:23 pm

Cronoloop wrote:step a) take map
step b) modify map
step c) rename map to avoid conflicts

I honestly don't think that this is sound advice in this case. The readme for DM-Maris says, inter alia,
Spoiler: show
This level may be electronically distributed only at NO CHARGE to the recipient in its current state, MUST include this .txt file, and may NOT be modified IN ANY WAY.

I take that to mean that the map should not be modified.

In addition, Swanky is an active member, last visiting this forum only a few days ago, and so his permission for any changes to the map should be sought.
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby Terraniux » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:25 pm

What a gorgeous map it is, truly beautiful. :thuup:
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby Cronoloop » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:30 am

OjitroC wrote:I honestly don't think that this is sound advice in this case. The readme for DM-Maris says, inter alia,
Spoiler: show
This level may be electronically distributed only at NO CHARGE to the recipient in its current state, MUST include this .txt file, and may NOT be modified IN ANY WAY.

I take that to mean that the map should not be modified.

In addition, Swanky is an active member, last visiting this forum only a few days ago, and so his permission for any changes to the map should be sought.


wait i re-quote myself :D
oh and people will say "woah dude u cant just modify maps!" even though people have been doing that for 17 years :loool:


do you have any idea how many servers used to do that and still do today? its p normal, they just modify something they dont like or they need. why bother asking when 95% of the mappers do not care and are not even around anymore? besides its not like they're stealing the map, they're just modifying it. the readme is worthless lets not kid ourselves :D (obviously im talking about server stuff, not reuploading the map somewhere else etc. )
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby OjitroC » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:25 pm

Cronoloop wrote: ... do you have any idea how many servers used to do that and still do today? its p normal, they just modify something they dont like or they need. why bother asking when 95% of the mappers do not care and are not even around anymore?

Yes, of course it is normal but that doesn't mean it is right - you miss my point though - we aren't talking in general here, we're discussing a specific map where the mapper does care (see readme) and is around. As evidenced by a previous post in this thread, I'm not the only one who thinks Swanky's permission should be sought.
Last edited by OjitroC on Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby Feralidragon » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:26 pm

Only because "everyone" is doing it, does not mean that we should advocate it.
Many UT players use a pirated version of the game despite being 9.99€ in places like Steam, to not mention when it's about 0.99€ whenever it is on sale in some of those places, yet you don't see this place advocating for such nor posting links for such a version.

Same thing here, if we don't put into our hands at the very least to be morally upstanding and respect everyone's work, we're all no better than vultures.
If you use the practices of others as your excuse, you're no better than them either.
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby Barbie » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:05 pm

This level [...] may NOT be modified IN ANY WAY.
If I take this literally - am I not allowed to patch the map while it is loaded? Any mutator changing the pawn's health for example would break this, too...
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby OjitroC » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:49 pm

Barbie wrote:
This level [...] may NOT be modified IN ANY WAY.
If I take this literally - am I not allowed to patch the map while it is loaded? Any mutator changing the pawn's health for example would break this, too...

There's now a danger of taking this thread off into a whole other debate about what can and can't be done with other people's maps (without permission).

However, in the context of the readme under discussion, I think that patching at runtime would not 'physically' alter the map (retrieved from one's cache, the map would still be in its original state presumably?) and so this would be OK. Similarly using mutators to alter what happens in a game on the map doesn't alter the map itself though the experience in game may differ from that intended by the mapper. However, I would imagine that when most mappers make maps, they accept and perhaps expect that players will be using mutators. This, of course, is just my view.
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby XaNKoNII » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:37 pm

Me personally, I think if you have the means to contact the mapper and there is indication he doesnt want his work modified then reach out to him. Think of not making an enemy and think that he might even help you out in doing what you want.

If it where an untracable map or inactive author i guess you could modify the map a put a little .txt explaining it :tu:
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Re: Removing graphics for pickup places in Deathmatch

Postby Feralidragon » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:41 pm

Barbie wrote:
This level [...] may NOT be modified IN ANY WAY.
If I take this literally - am I not allowed to patch the map while it is loaded? Any mutator changing the pawn's health for example would break this, too...

Clearly, in UT99, or any game for that matter, permissions over custom levels/maps always refer to the files themselves, not how they behave in runtime.
So it does mean what it means literally, but concerning the files themselves.

Whenever you run something like a mutator or any code, since you're not modifying the file itself, it's completely OK.
These are there simply as a means to ensure some level of respect over someone's work, and hopefully I won't have to go through all the moral and logical reasons why such work ought to be respected in the first place.
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