Multi mod server - can it work?

[Pileyrei]

Many years ago I had a multimod server - it ran NIUT (everyone has same weapon, changes every 30 seconds), MH, Fragball and Chaos UT.

I managed to get it fairly busy at times but often it would sit empty.

Two questions:

1. Can a multi mod server ever be successful?
It seems servers need to be mainly one thing - DM, CTF, MH, etc to stand a chance of being popular.

2. If you were to run a multimod server, which mods would you install or consider installing?

Thanks
Piley

[papercoffee]

which mods would you install or consider installing?

The Damage mutator... to add more oomph into a shot and to make self-damage go away.

[SC]-[WARTZ_{HoF}]

I have been hosting UT99 servers since 2004 and not once has a multimode server ever done well for me. Clients tend to play one game-type or another and trying to mix them together on one hosted game server just doesn't work. You need to dedicate one gametype per server and this is coming from years of experience hosting. Wish you luck.

[Hook]

I am in same boat as Schwartz above.
I agree with him.
We recently completely changed out our CLD multi mod server that mars007 runs.
Popularity of CLD skyrocketed!

[Pileyrei]

Thanks for the replies.
I do agree that a multimod server will probably fail.
Was just curious if anyone had successfully got one working.

[Feralidragon]

Multi-mod is tricky to do well.
I have seen servers which pulled it off successfully, both in UT99 and UT2004, but they were mainly around vehicles (SLV in the case of UT99, and Assault and Onslaught in the case of UT2004), so it seems to me that the gametype itself can differ successfully, but not the actual "core" of the server (SLV and vehicles in these cases).

So, I would say that you should restrict yourself to one main mod overall, and then different gametypes, but all which may provide a similar level of gameplay (for example, CTF goes well with with JB and TDM).

[sektor2111]

I have two (stealth and temporary) sort of "multi-servers" more exactly servers with 3 game types each, and they do not really crash often because there I run ONLY MY OWN stuff and NOTHING from BotPack, no Nexgen, no crapped timers, no messed up stock repositories, no NewNet fantasies - that's the way of doing "multi-servers" aka multi-game servers from my point of view - not so useful for popularity, each player is pulling votes where wants causing conflicts and argues with others and all that stuff...

Such a sample of server is an old XC server done as a "How To XC" hosted by Medor - also running only custom MH games - and to mention small tech details:
- NONE of game-types involved in any server will NEVER need to load useless packages for Players not even MonsterHunt. If player is playing a game, will not need to load other game-types as packages for nothing;
- ANY game-type is self packaged AUTOMATED by Engine - ignore those docs saying things like "ServerPackages=MonsterHunt" or such because there are not even needed - maps are calling them as well - and for sure it's only an useless packages load for such "multi-servers" making player to wait ages for downloading files;
- All Downloads means Skins, New HUDS from mutators, New weapons, New pawns, New decorations which must be mapped to not be invisible, but NOT game-types and Neither Server-Side things or "ServerActors".

[sektor2111]

Question(s) from me for you (any - PickAnyTarget) about these options for "multi-servers".

1) Do you think that is useful for you a small toy able to do some packages mapping I mean automatically adding ServerPackages depending on game configuration and not all packages for all games at time ?
I'm asking because I've done a Packager Server-Side tool, mapping packages for certain game-type only when said game is loaded using the power from XC_Engine - yeah, it is addressing XCGE based servers. This will prevent player to download X packages for game-types which are not running but mapping desired ones. Then, you can make it more complex if you need more stuff... By example a DM scoreboard is not used in MH or MA or other custom game-type but player is downloading it because it will be needed in a sudden DM game-change voted.
If yes, probably it will go into XC section but I repeat, it's aiming XC Multi-Servers. I did it because I have done a configuration where I got tired of downloading junk files for nothing so I reduced downloading of packages in order to speed up joining time.

2) Another tool which I've done not really only for XC Servers is a "Delayed Loader". I'm talking about a Server-Side mutator able to load other Actors/Mutators but... having a delay.
Purpose of this thing.
I was hacking all crap from some paths network in a few Maps. At a moment iterations developed did not helped me and I went to a slow solution. The problem here comes with Relics type mutators, SwarmSpawn types and such. Simply mutators based on Navigation must wait until hacks/tweaks are operated in Level and being initialized AFTER this task as long as they do not have a problem if they do start after let's say 3 seconds. This one has logs for figuring if something is wrong in configuration reporting packages loaded. List has 64 places for such delayed mutators - I'm not sure if there are more needs. I tested this thing for mutators addressing server but which have to wait at least 2 seconds before to start and which are supporting a delayed start.
If you wanna check these and/or to develop them I'll drop them around...

[Que]

Question(s) from me for you (any - PickAnyTarget) about these options for "multi-servers".

1) Do you think that is useful for you a small toy able to do some packages mapping I mean automatically adding ServerPackages depending on game configuration and not all packages for all games at time ?

^ MVX Can either load all DefaultPackages[x] or DefaultPackages+CustomPackages[x]
same with Actors & Mutators & Settings .

*See Here Examples from .ini;

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[MapVoteX105r.MapVoteX]
CustomGame[0]=(bUse=False,MapPrefix="",MapFolder="",DefaultMap="",GameName="",GameClass="",Mutators="",Settings="",ServerPackages="<acepackages1d>",ServerActors="<aceactors1d")
.
[MapVoteX105r.MapVoteServerPackages]
Alias[0]=(PackageName="<acepackages1d>",ServerPackages="NPLoader_v18,NPLoaderLLU_v18,NPLoaderLLD_v18,NPLoaderLLS_v18,ACEv11d_Cdll,IACEv11,ACEv11d_C")
.
[MapVoteX105r.MapVoteServerActors]
Alias[0]=(ActorName="<aceactors1d>",ServerActors="NPLoader_v18.NPLActor,ACEv11d_S.ACEActor,ACEv11d_EH.ACEEventActor")
.
[MapVoteX105r.MapVoteDefaultPackages]
DefaultPackage[0]=SoldierSkins
.
DefaultPackage[99]=MyPackage
.
[MapVoteX105r.MapVoteDefaultActors]
DefaultActor[0]=IpDrv.UdpBeacon
.
DefaultActor[99]=MyActor

*MVX Supports up-to 200 Default Server Actors/Packages & Custom Actor/Packages Combined. (200 Total)
^ yes we are limited to ~1024 Characters for Actor/Packages Names currently and you will crash the server using a certain # of A/P's
* But we are future proofing MVX for when 469-Patch becomes available.

So if you look at those MVX.ini settings ..

This is how it should work.

Show

if.....

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[MapVoteX105r.MapVoteX]
bEnableServerPackages=True

*All ServerActors/Packages are Automatically moved from UT.ini [Engine.GameEngine] into MVX.ini under

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[MapVoteX105r.MapVoteDefaultPackages]
DefaultPackage[0-99]=
.
[MapVoteX105r.MapVoteDefaultActors]
DefaultActor[0-99]=

*All ServerActors/Packages from [Engine.GameEngine] are removed.
*All DefaultPackages[x]="" Are Copied to UT.ini at Level Start
*All CustomGame[x] Packages="" are then sent to UT.ini
*All [DefaultActors[x]="" are Then Sent to UT.ini
*All CustomGame[x] Actors="" are then sent to UT.ini

~ When the server is started for the first time it loads up 1 very specific Map named DM-Tutorial.unr
~ This Map tells MVX that the Server has restarted from scratch and to process all items from MVX.ini for the DefaultGame.
*The Server is Restarted with a Preset DefaultMap="DM-Whatever.unr" and the Mutator Chain is then sent
to be processed. **This is where your Delayed Mutator loading mod may fit in**
~ As we could process all Mutators in the chain and then the delayed one's.. not sure yet how this would work and/or if it is needed.

*Basically We have made a Lot of changes to previous version and are continuing to add/remove features as we go.
*Not sure if it works with XC_Engine *But* We have updated the way MVX Loads Maps now using a Prefix system like other MapVotes.
*I would like to get it fully functional with XC_GameEngine in the future .
Not sure but I do think that we Strip all "prefixes-" and ".unr" from MapNames before sending to clients.. (upto 500 Maps per Gametype)
*This is to get around the 1024Byte Limitation.
*Assuming we may still do this.
*MVX Also PreCaches All Map's ServerSide before processing it takes ruffly 69 seconds for 5000 Maps to Cache @ServerRestart Only.
*All Gametype's Maps are Cached... This Does not affect gameplay.. afaik.

note: other slight problem is that .. XC use's it's own Class for Handling Actors/Packages.. ofc this is needed for sending and compressing Packages and so forth.
MVX105 sends these to the Default Engine Class for processing.

2) Another tool which I've done not really only for XC Servers is a "Delayed Loader". I'm talking about a Server-Side mutator able to load other Actors/Mutators but... having a delay.
Purpose of this thing.
I was hacking all crap from some paths network in a few Maps. At a moment iterations developed did not helped me and I went to a slow solution. The problem here comes with Relics type mutators, SwarmSpawn types and such. Simply mutators based on Navigation must wait until hacks/tweaks are operated in Level and being initialized AFTER this task as long as they do not have a problem if they do start after let's say 3 seconds. This one has logs for figuring if something is wrong in configuration reporting packages loaded. List has 64 places for such delayed mutators - I'm not sure if there are more needs. I tested this thing for mutators addressing server but which have to wait at least 2 seconds before to start and which are supporting a delayed start.
If you wanna check these and/or to develop them I'll drop them around...

^^^ Does this work well?.. can you send source so we can look at maybe implementing into MVX Next year..

*With respect to Multi-Servers and their popularity and so-forth.. I guess it all depends.. We Have designed MVX in such a way that it encourages players to stay focused on "Current" Gametype being played at that time.. for Example;



*Only Maps for Current GameType are displayed in MapList.

*If Players want to change the "GameType" then they can choose from the list on the right >>

*The Maps for any new GameType's will only load IF a Majority vote is met!

* After this.. MVX Window closes on ALL Clients Momentarily (1~5 sec's depending on # of Maps in Folder)

* The Maps are then Sent to to players and ALL Windows Open again..
~ However Clients will only have the Ability to Vote for Maps pertaining to that GameType which WON the Vote!
*For example;

^Notice that the GameType List is Blank and they are offered only Maps and few [tabs] to chose from.. this is intentional.

*Then another Majority vote is taken for which Map to Play ...

*Finally Admins can set the Default GameType and Map for each time the Server Starts up or EmptyServerSwitch Times out.

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[MapVoteX105r.MapVoteX]
.
bMajorityPlayerVote=True
bGameMapVoting=True
.
bSortCustomGameList=True
bEnableEmptyServerSwitch=True
EmptyServerSwitchTimeMins=15
.
bEmptyServerSwitchMap=False
DefaultCustomGameNum=15

Cya.


ps: if you would like to test latest version of MVX then flick me a pm.
~ You Can Test live here!

[EvilGrins]

There should be clarification on 1 point.

Just as some confuses skins & models, many confuse mutators & mods.

So do you mean running multiple mods or mutators?

[Que]

There should be clarification on 1 point.

Just as some confuses skins & models, many confuse mutators & mods.

So do you mean running multiple mods or mutators?

Mutators I assume.. not sure I understand.. the Q?
as far as Skins go.. they all get added to the ServerPackages[x]=SomeSkin

Mutators / Game Settings & A/P's Etc go into the CustomGame[x]= Section..

[sektor2111]

I see here a bump not really relevant for me because I've solved these for years and I won't change "mapvote".

Just as some confuses skins & models, many confuse mutators & mods.

So do you mean running multiple mods or mutators?

It's done for about 2+ years with no single problem and no "smart" mapvote it's required. Like I said it's not only about loading separate things DM for DM and MH for MH, but it's also about "Waiting" whatever tool to finish paths hacking/mapping and then loading mods which are rushing to gain locations for no purpose. If everything happens in PostBeginPlay or whatever init stage iterations limit might crash game.
Sample: SwarmSpawn and Relics and other similar mutators. They are getting locations based on navigation network right during initialization stage. Can I ask why ? All this stupid load might take place "LATER" - after 2 seconds or X seconds. Do they work this way ? Yes, for months... Server hosted at NfoServers by Schwartz called MonsterGamingServer has such things: custom game-types with their own mutators, delayed loaders, patch plugins (working like a charm - those things called "paranoia" over there but which are doing a good job so far). Soon there will take place some maps which were not having a good DevPath response but XCGEv24 does a different job with them... and all Bot and Monster might crawl as it wants. Of course more fine tuning is doable but I think it's enough how it's done according to number of players which want monster games now days...

Aside, I never understood (MH related) why all monsters are calling those "init" things without to have a valid point. Does anyone play ? No ? Then I must ask why do we need to process init cycles ? In empty server monster should be inactive and this is what XC_MonsterHunt is doing, waking up monsters if a player has started game else they are... waiting map-switch.

21th century is open for new ideas making things SMOOTHER instead of loading 1000 things for 1 game - it's called optimization and yes, I have stopped listening/doing what old server-tutorials are saying. I'm in 2019, and soon in 2020, year 2001 has passed.... for years.
I forgot to say about common repositories used by 3 servers hosted in the same machine - you don't need 3 copies of BotPack and all those stock assets... Perhaps title can also be More servers in one machine or more multi-servers in the same machine... Did I say about LZMA redirection ? Smaller files, faster compressing, no issues at tiny files...

[esnesi]

Yes it can

In the meantime enough mapvotes out there which have features for this.
Just needs alot of time, dedication, out of control passion, patience, blood, sweat, tears, and testing
What you run remains personal preference.

I went with all most known arena ones, insta/sniper/combo/rocket etc.
Next to that also NW3, Soccer, BurgerCTF, FoodFight, just the most mainstream ones out there.

[Chamberly]

Well, I can say a few thing.

I've been running several servers that use many gametypes/mods alongside with Higor's projects like XC_Engine, CacusMapVote, and many more that made it possible and much better as in game type details, so many of them. Well for years likely to say since 2013?

From time to time when I get a large group of players who are interested in 1 particular mod/gametype, they'll play only on that mod and want the mod-preferred/gametype server only server. It's the way of saying "Hey I like this game and I'll stay to play this!" instead of running across several gametypes that many don't like to play on and it throw a bunch of random fish in a pond that doesn't do well with other. However there are chances that the server can end up being played as a PUG (pick up games) server for a gametype (Siege PUG is common on mine) and bunnytrack. Other times I just have a small group of people like 3 - 5 trying to do practices on it.

I do foresee MVX have a good implementation that include the interchangable server actors that some gametype by default requires it (some monsterhunt, bunnytrack, different newnet mod versions, not sure about different naliweapon versions... that's all I can think of at the moment) and with that have the ability to be easily changed it give a much higher chance the server can be freely used as a good testing server or tryout games server.

But don't forget, UT99 was built on CTF/DM/DOM/TDM so majority of the players that first played UT99 only know these at first so it's easy for them to play as that. These were the default gametype. I didn't speak of what mutator or such because that can be different any server you go to. This is the easiest part to know that it had been around since pre-release day because it was already being worked on.

Now for me - do I see a winning future of a multigame server? Yes but the chances is to work on it very well is hard because it require to get the people who like to play any of these games to play on to be there and know how to play it all. Or most likely they'll just keep picking DM or Bunnytrack or whatever. The chances is still very hard. I'm not saying it's impossible because I don't ever think that way, and I know there is always some improvement. I'm one of those people who say UT99 will never die. You either keep your career or lose it kind of idea. Now the reason why I really love the idea of the multigametype server because I like playing in many different gametypes and I'm not sticking to only 1 because I get too bored of it after a while. It's like implementing games into le ole nintendo system, yay mario maker even tho I never played that yet. The only way to get it on a roll is to keep inviting everyone.

The way of handling downloads is definitely a thing to take it easy for players who have trouble connecting to the server and with ACE issues, Nexgen issue, timeout issues... etc. but a lot of this is gonna get cleared up. ACE is being in the work. v469 is also in the work as download won't be much issue. Hopefully that'll solve a lot of those timeout issues. I don't know about Nexgen but it could use a better rework of the mod and to add in some anti-crashing client features.

But hey that sounds interesting how you change weapons every 30 seconds... I haven't played that in ut99. The only thing that is close enough that reminds me is Nexuiz that was kind of close to UT/Quake games. But it was using more of different powerup/modifications to the weapon or playerview like a relic mod but more than the ut99 relics.

[Que]

The way that MVX works with respect to CustomGames[x]=
you can change the Default GameType and Map.. for when ever new users enter the Server.
Set in MVX.ini

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DefaultCustomGameNum=23

Now everytime the Server Restarts it will restart on that GameType # and DefaultMap="YourDefaultMap" of your choice.
*Also Good for trouobleshooting any particular GameType.

then you will notice that it is currently on 20th Anniversary Competition Maps.
This can be set to anything. any GameType/Map


BTW I turned the lights on..

*If you want to test current MapVoteX105r beta then Ive Attached it below;

Here's a Public Beta for MVX105r if any ones interested

Show

Highly Recommend you test Offline First

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:10
UCC Server DM-tutorial?Game=Botpack.DeathMatchPlus?Mutator=MapVoteX105r.MapVoteX -lanplay -multihome=192.168.x.x
copy ucc.log servercrash.log
goto 10

* Note Run it then shutdown and 2 files will spawn;

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MapVoteX.ini
MapVoteXM.ini

NOTE:
The Following files MUST Remain in the Maps Folder.


NOTE TO LINUX ADMINS
the Custom Maps Folder named: CTF May cause a serious error and kill server.
This is a weird thing and we have no idea why this happens.
to resolve this issue simple name the folder CTF1 or CTP or CTFMaps

-Separating maps into folders is the best way to use MVX.
-MVX will read upto 500 Maps from any folder that contains *.UNR files. inside of UT.
advanced users may know how to use 'junctions' or symlinks for certain instances.

May not work with XC_Engine
meaning that MVX posts ServerPackages/Actors to the [Engine.GameEngine] Class not to [XC_Engine.XCGameEngine]
we need to look into that.

*There's a fare bit in there.

*Also disable the MapCacher for now;

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bCacheAllGameMaps=False
MaxCachedGameMaps=0
TotalNumberOfMaps=500

few problems with it..
*Feedback is Welcome..

mvx105r.zip

*Still got more features to put into it... Next Year.