Search, find and discuss about Mutators!


Postby Robsoie » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:51 pm


Hacing came back recently to get some good old UT botmatches, i was looking around for the old muties i used to play with either in UT itself or in the INF total conversion.

I discovered that the old twt zombies i sometime played with got a fixed version, Zombie5
After tracking down a download on ut files , i was pleasantly surprised to notice that the zombies go after the bots now, and had some new zombies too.

Checking for the class names and variables, i made 2 txt files that i can exec ( exec fasterzombies.txt or exec normalzombies.txt ) either in the console (or bind them to a key) for either having faster zombies or normal ones depending on my mood or gametype played
Code: Select all
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieNurse Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieNurse GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieNurse WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraci Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraci GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraci WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraci2 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraci2 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraci2 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje1 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje1 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje1 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje2 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje2 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje2 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje3 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje3 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje3 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin02 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin02 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin02 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin03 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin03 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin03 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin04 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin04 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin04 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin05 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin05 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin05 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin06 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin06 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin06 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo01 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo01 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo01 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo02 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo02 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo02 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo03 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo03 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo03 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo04 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo04 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo04 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo05 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo05 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo05 WaterSpeed 100
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo06 Jumpz 150
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo06 GroundSpeed 350
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo06 WaterSpeed 100

and normal zombies.txt
Code: Select all
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieNurse Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieNurse GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieNurse WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraci Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraci GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraci WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraci2 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraci2 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraci2 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje1 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje1 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje1 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje2 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje2 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje2 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje3 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje3 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieTraje3 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin02 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin02 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin02 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin03 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin03 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin03 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin04 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin04 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin04 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin05 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin05 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin05 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin06 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin06 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieBalin06 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo01 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo01 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo01 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo02 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo02 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo02 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo03 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo03 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo03 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo04 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo04 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo04 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo05 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo05 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo05 WaterSpeed 80
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo06 Jumpz 120
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo06 GroundSpeed 50
set Zombies5.TWT_ZombieGordo06 WaterSpeed 80

But after enjoying it for a bit, it made me remember the old flaw, the same as in old twt zombies the bots completely ignore the zombies (while at least the zombies are interested in killing bots in Zombie5) .
So i am wondering, maybe after all those years someone may have figured something that can be done to fix this problem ?
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Re: Zombie5

Postby sektor2111 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:47 pm

Robsoie wrote:But after enjoying it for a bit, it made me remember the old flaw, the same as in old twt zombies the bots completely ignore the zombies (while at least the zombies are interested in killing bots in Zombie5) .
So i am wondering, maybe after all those years someone may have figured something that can be done to fix this problem ?

Old problems already solved for 2 years or more if I'm not mistaking, else I will trigger some... posting from my "fan(s)" - shortly is called XC_Engine solving a problem of monsters called SetEnemy properly crapped by EPIC themselves... and Bot's attitude is dictated by BotPack - good luck here. When problems of BotPack will be solved (wait for Epic :sleep: ), Bots will take in account creatures, pawns "player-haters" types. So far BotPack specific games have a default bNoMonsters=True except probably that Assault game - FortStandard is a goal after all.

For NON-XC fans or said XC haters (default UT coding plonks) probably I can write something if coders are not willing to proceed at this task.
Here would be needed mentioning which things should not be involved and which things should be involved - TeamCannon, FlockPawn( aggressive biterfish ), ScriptedPawn, etc. other decoration-type pawns done within these 19-20 years of UT.

In servers where I have set CTF, DM matches these problems don't exist. Monsters are playing DM, and other special trained Monsters for team rules are helping and bugging CTF missions properly. Such a server is running as evidence for those non-believers. You got me here, I'm a fan of gaming with Creatures, Bots, Humans... because humans are chickening out when they die 3-4 times (I don't get this habit) then, I need other "friends" which are more interested in combat and which are not leaving games.

If my post doesn't have an understandable relevance, ignore it with all my apologies.
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Re: Zombie5

Postby Robsoie » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:27 pm

It's a bit over my head as i'm no coder unfortunately, only an old UT player coming back to live back his nostalgia :D
But i am wondering about this XC Engine, do you mean that simply running UT through this engine is fixing the "bot ignoring monster" some mods have (without coding intervention i mean like in Monster Madness in which bots do not ignore monsters and monsters do not ignore bots ) ?
If it is that, it sure sounds interesting .

But this mention of a different engine makes me wonder, is the XC Engine compatible with every mods and mutators that were running in Epic default engine , or do they need some special coder magic that i have 0 idea on how to do in order to make them compatible ?

Anyways, if you're willing to write something that helps this kind of mods like Zombie5 , it would be fantastic, thanks to you.
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Re: Zombie5

Postby Dr.Flay » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:11 am

I know "MrLoathsome" fixed the issue with 1 of his other mods. I think it is "UTSPFix"
https://web.archive.org/web/20170818174 ... k:80/load/

BTW. If you change your int file you can adjust some of the values via the advanced options window (Type "preferences" in the console).
Code: Select all
Object=(Name=Zombies5.Zombies, Class=Class, MetaClass=Engine.Mutator, Description="Zombies5 !!")
Preferences=(Caption="Mutators",Parent="Advanced Options")
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Re: Zombie5

Postby Robsoie » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:43 am

Thanks, i tested a quick CTF with a "UTSPfix" CTF and noticed the bots attack the zombies .
But they attack the zombies -only- if they are "grabbed" first, if no zombie have grabbed them the bots still continue to ignore their threat and run right into their arms (when they block the path) .

I gave a try to spawn the zombies with the Monster Spawn 3.04 instead by editing the Monsterspawn.ini to use the zombie5 classes, but while it works it still does not get the bots to fight the zombies, similarly to how it spawn unreal monsters anyways : the bots ignore them but the monsters kill them :/

Looks like it's more complicated than i hoped it would be, wish i could use the zombies inside of the Monster Madness mutator, that's the only one i remember that had monsters and bots attacking each other as they should.
As it was pointed somewhere from what i remember at the original UT release, before getting patched, had bots and monsters fighting each other, no idea how Epic screwed up that.
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Re: Zombie5

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:18 am

Bot is guided in attitude toward pawns by Botpack. If you want Bot more interested about combat, definitely another smarty thing should be used NOT really Botpack and here I have to ask which game-type. TeamGame ? Not a TeamGame ? Because for a TeamGame, other problems will pop up unless you will use another sort of game controller.

Mutators/actors are doable but they won't solve problems toward bad codes from BotPack, there is the master key for Bot behavior. Bot can be more aggressive if game running says which is threat and what attitude should take Bot toward others than Players and Bots.

My combination is NsDM3 as game-type not default DM, a SwarmSpawner started with a delay (team-ready for NsMonster), MBot type used as Bot not default Bot, XC_Engine for stability. I'm not using Zombies (too slow) but other ScriptedPawn types, and CTF is running with custom team-ready creatures.
Sample server is here. It's a multi-server running games MH MH2 MA DM CTF TDM. If you think this is suitable for what you need, we can discuss about tools loaded there. And I'll create links for you or sending you those things using whatever methods.
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Re: Zombie5

Postby Robsoie » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:43 pm

Thanks, but i'm only interested in the zombie mutator, as for my monster fighting needs Monster Madness works for bots vs monsters without any problem in my gaming sessions.

I made a copy of my UT and on that copy added the xc engine, following the instructions from there
https://www.ut99.org/viewtopic.php?f=64 ... ini#p94457
(using the more up to date files too)
After making sure this UT worked after making the unrealtournament.ini modification, i tried the Zombie5 mutie in a test CTF and unfortunately it was the same as before, the bots completely ignore the zombies.

Maybe it's a flaw in the mutator then if the xc engine is supposed to fix the bot not attacking monsters problem and it is still happening with zombie5.

I guess i'll keep using Monster Madness for my bots vs monsters fun, at least it works without any tweaks or file editing , i 'll just have to forget zombie hunting in UT or INF.
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Re: Zombie5

Postby Dr.Flay » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:07 pm

I am surprised xc engine did not fix it. Were you also using another fix at the same time ?

Perhaps you should rethink the use of the zombie hoard. Stop trying to make them the objective.
I use them in all town/city maps, in all game modes, as an added natural hazard.
I set them to no score for a kill, but they will reduce yours if they kill you.
I don't waste my bullets on them unless I have to, or have the Vampire Relic which makes them a handy pool for health harvesting.

I like that the zombies and monsters in my maps don't get on, and often lure the monsters into a pack of Grabby McGrabfaces.
Watching a Skaarj trying to hack and slice his way out of a bad situation is amusing.

If using the RuneZ pickups (a Relic alternative), pawns will also pick up the powerups.
This makes for a dynamic side-objective, where often the powerups are now wandering the streets for you to find and claim (if you can).

There are other zombies you can add via MonsterSpawner or MrLoathsomes more advanced Dropper mutator (this lets you add dropped items inc. pawns).
I can't find the first Killing Grounds online, but there is a second by a different author.
Apparently there are some zombies in the Unreal4Ever mod
I have collected as many UT zombie mods as possible, but most zombie mods for UT99 are re-skinned player models with nonsense super powers.
The best you will get is collecting the various useful zombies into batches for spawning
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Re: Zombie5

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:58 am

In BotPack.CTFGame essential game parameter/s is/are FLAG/s not creatures. We have already debated this somewhere in forum, in some topic with cannons which Epic never used in those maps because... they can be quickly telefraged, so are useless creating only Bot specific attitude errors which are not healthy at all. Bot's reaction is game-type reaction, not Mutator - these are two different things. Like I sad, Good Luck with Botpack if you don't get what I mean. Bot can be convinced somehow about a new type of enemy but I won't bet that won't discard enemy if some attitude code will get called. If you want a new reaction from Bot a new game-type is required or... a XC specific actor replacing attitude code and other "player-only" codes from CTFGame doable for XC_Engine, if not, rewriting another CTFGame is the viable answer not Mutators messing around.

Little techs
For this Bot-Zombie attack task, NsCTF will not help because that thing takes in account teams and monsters able to natively recognize teams. For playing CTFGame with monsters generally as a separate threat for both teams, perhaps I'll write another stuff in future, I did not need such thing, my goal was to setup a party with NsMonster not un-teamed zombies. You can hint me with some package name for this new type of CTF game if LoathSome's one did not help you. Game which I can write is visible in default CTF Browser Tab in case of doing a server. Why a new game-type ? Because attitude code is part of game controller at once with the rest on needs, not for a mutator.
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Re: Zombie5

Postby Red_Fist » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:48 am

The thing is, the game has "scriptedpawns" as a class, and "players", a player would be you.

So the whole thing makes it so players get hated by bots, not scriptedpawns.

The gametype, like DM forces things to act only in that way. So if you throw a scriptedpawn in a DM, the DM gametype won't care if they are a monster because, they are not players.

so if you wanted to play as a skaarj, for example, you would still be a player in order for bots to hate you.

It has to be that way by design because a DM - CTF match HAS to be between players and bots. scriptedpawns (monsters) go after players but not bots.

That might not be 100% correct, but that is the basic idea. Like we need monsterhunt gametype so bots can play as a team with you and kill scriptedpawns with you. In any case there HAS to be a new file for a new gametype,
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Re: Zombie5

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:52 pm

Let's summarize these Pawn things.
ScriptedPawn won't attack Bot out of XC_Engine. when you are using new pawns or XC_GE, this bug is NONE.
Bot doesn't attack Non-Players regarding to what you do with default UT games, only pretty rare - Probably I really have to write some stuff here for common pawns.

Why Bot has an addiction for Players and Bots ?
As already said, if memory doesn't cheat me we are coming back to that "idea" called bIsPlayer happily rammed by Epic in Skaarj problems. Function called for both Monster/Bot activating a combat is called "SeePlayer". This SeePlayer is active for bIsPlayer pawns and randomly can activate a skaarj self attack - EG has figured this and you can even figure this featured reaction against itself especially at Skaarj species. Because this SeePlayer will except common monsters from account - non-players, Bot will be somehow very blind while is roaming as long as nothing is triggering it in combat. A bump or some lost projectile might develop some answer from whatever Bot, the rest is ENGINE. Default DM for me was enough messed up here I had to fight against monsters, Bots and players, while Bots have only two types of enemies Humans and Bots and very rarely attacking a monster. I wrote another DM controller having some things rewritten and other Bot more wrapped. It do works, that's all I have to say.
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