SmartStockBots mutator

[Buggie]

"AvoidDumbMoveToCTFFlag
- Remove MoveTarget if it CTFFlag returned or grabbed just yet.

As result:
- bots not do dumb runs to CTFFlag if someone else return or grab it."

Could you explain more clearly what this does? I see bots all the time running at their own flag as it's on the stand, as if they're checking whether it's still there. For instance, in CTF-November the blue bots will spawn nearby and then run and touch their own flag. Is this fixable, and is this what AvoidDumbMoveToCTFFlag is supposed to fix? If so, it's not working.

No. It is like if ahead pool of acid and flag on ground (not in acid). 2 bots run to flag for pick it.
One touch. And run do other stuff. Another one start run to own flag in straight line ignore everything, include level geometry. So die in acid.

What you describe is defender behavior. Defenders act as attacker. But if they too far flag and/or not see it, game mode set them move to flag.
Usually they not want touch flag, just after goes close - stops, but if map close, like in CTF-November, that not work, and they all time go "check the flag".
That how game mode work with them.

That basically fine, since maps can be very different.

"FixCTFDefendersOnStolenFlag_OnlyExactCTFGame=True"

Could you explain what this does, please?

Enable fix FixCTFDefendersOnStolenFlag only when game type exactly CTFGame, not subclass of it.
Some subclasses of CTFGame is not actually ctf game. Or not need that fix.

"FixJumpWhenCarryBoots=True"

I'm also not sure what this does. In what way does it fix the jump while they have boots? Does it mean they can normal jump and bootjump while wearing boots? I often see bots wearing boots and wasting them on trying to get over small obstacles (like stairs or low walls). I also see them constantly jumping from LiftExit path nodes i nthe wrong direction, such as from high to low, because they don't know how to tell one LiftExit from another. Is this fixable?

Bots use boots as humans do only on JumpSpots. All other is actually detail of implementation which make them cheat - they jump high, without spent boots. Whole time. On each jump.
That not goes well, so they start do dump stuff or even looping.
So this option enable fix, which work not in all 100% cases, but where able, try detect jump and reduce height.

"FixMinigun=True
FixMinigun_AimErrorModifier=2.000000"

Is there a way to properly nerf the minigun at Inhuman and Godlike? Even with these enabled the minigun is broken. I saw a bot literally snipe an opponent within about an eighth of a second with the minigun the other day, it's clearly still broken. What should these modifiers be set to?

Minigun actually that powerful. That option serve for reduce this inhuman aim to more moderate values. You can experiment with it. Set for example 4 or 8.

"MoveWithTranslocator=True"

This doesn't seem to work. It's true that bots will occasionally remember to throw the T/L ahead of them, but they can't do it like human players unless LiftExits or TransDests have been set up, which is obviously not practical. They can't use this to climb the hills in CTF-Face for example. Any points in keeping this? At the moment all it does is make bots put away their weapons and meaninglessly throw the T/L a yard ahead of them.

That option not finished. And can't be finished without make bots cheat in some way. Like instant switch to transloc and back.
Without that bots can't use it in way which not harm them.
Maybe one day I try do something with it.
Some options not public listed since not finished, but still appear in INI.

Have you scripted the bots to move as a team at any point? Bots now seem to move around in TDM in groups, which they never used to do, at least when speccing.

No. They do this by default, but that almost all times goes bad.
However I not try fix it and not sure if that possible.
Example what they do (in CTF mostly):
- in 20 meters of flag, instead of grab it, they runaway to own base, because it is support bot, and leader be killed and respawned on base.
- Travel whole base for reach leader. sometimes whole game, because leader mind own business and nobody wait.
- Or leader wait in AS and whole team can stuck, because leader not want goes in small group and some bot stuck somewhere.

Bots don't know how to use the redeemer while SSB is enabled, they just fire it and then dodge after it, suiciding. Any way to fix this?

Redeemer hard to use. Even for humans. I not see any clear rules for bots which for for all maps.
However bots aware about splash damage of weapons. So not use it all time.
We play a lot with bots and sometimes they use redeemer properly.
It really random. But I not see way how it can be improved.

[hayabusa21180]

Bots use boots as humans do only on JumpSpots. All other is actually detail of implementation which make them cheat - they jump high, without spent boots. Whole time. On each jump.
That not goes well, so they start do dump stuff or even looping.
So this option enable fix, which work not in all 100% cases, but where able, try detect jump and reduce height.

Sometimes bots use boots in LiftExits and TransDests, even with no JumpSpots. Also, I never see bots jump at reduced height, it's as if they always have boots, including jumping on LiftExits set up for something else.

No. They do this by default, but that almost all times goes bad.
However I not try fix it and not sure if that possible.
Example what they do (in CTF mostly):
- in 20 meters of flag, instead of grab it, they runaway to own base, because it is support bot, and leader be killed and respawned on base.
- Travel whole base for reach leader. sometimes whole game, because leader mind own business and nobody wait.
- Or leader wait in AS and whole team can stuck, because leader not want goes in small group and some bot stuck somewhere.

How come in TDM matches where the player is playing (with SSB enabled) the bot teammates don't automatically follow you around (I used to have to tell them to freelance, but now I don't), but in TDM matches where there is no player the bots group up? Is there any way to mark one bot as the leader, then tell the others to freelance away from them? Bots keep getting grouped up and dying together when clearly moving as a team isn't always good. It's not a big deal for speccing obviously, because who does that, but it might be a problem if the opposing team is moving as a team while the player's team isn't.

Redeemer hard to use. Even for humans. I not see any clear rules for bots which for for all maps.
However bots aware about splash damage of weapons. So not use it all time.
We play a lot with bots and sometimes they use redeemer properly.
It really random. But I not see way how it can be improved.

Can they not just be told to stand still while firing the redeemer, like they create their own temporary DefensePoint or AmbushSpot?

[Buggie]

How come in TDM matches where the player is playing (with SSB enabled) the bot teammates don't automatically follow you around (I used to have to tell them to freelance, but now I don't), but in TDM matches where there is no player the bots group up? Is there any way to mark one bot as the leader, then tell the others to freelance away from them? Bots keep getting grouped up and dying together when clearly moving as a team isn't always good. It's not a big deal for speccing obviously, because who does that, but it might be a problem if the opposing team is moving as a team while the player's team isn't.

Usual;ly bot stry grouping. Like one set follow to anther.
Not see problem here.

Exists mods which allow you set bots commands like follow specific player and make any specific set of it.

Can they not just be told to stand still while firing the redeemer, like they create their own temporary DefensePoint or AmbushSpot?

IDK for me they not stand. It usually fire during jump or combat.
Not notice standing still. I play with Masterful bots with adjusted skills.

[hayabusa21180]

OK, thanks. Do you know if there is a way for SSB to stop CTF attacking bots from turning around and defending their own flag as soon as it is picked up? I'm having bots just about to touch the enemy flag, then they turn around when their own flag gets taken, which doesn't make sense. Also, is there a way to make bots cherry pick?

[Buggie]

I can't change long terms goal of game modes. SSB not work like that.
Attacking bots goes try return own flag most of time.
And this usually good strategy for some maps/ Usually with linear style and one and few paths.
So who take flag will meet attackers.
If they goes to enemy flag, they can be defeated and flag carrier get open road for cap if defenders not able catch up Flag Carrier (FC).

In real CTF, humans without flag move faster with translocator (TL). So always can catch FC.
Bots not us TL properly, so can't do so.
Defenders run at same speed as FC and usually by same path.
So this not goes well, unless FC intercepted by attackers which already in mid of map.

That general layout. real case depends from map layout and can be good for such use or no.
But in general it usually good.

[hayabusa21180]

Hi Buggie. A few more questions for you:

- One of the biggest problems / exploits with bots, especially in AS, is that they can't spam. Is there any way to get them to fire at a certain spot as a sort of random spam modifier?

- Is there any way to get them to tactical suicide, like in AS, when an objective is taken and they need a better spawn? I've been experimenting with Dispatchers disabling spawns, but that's not the same thing.

- Bots always continue fighting, no matter what their health is like. Is there any way to get them to retreat when they think they're in trouble, either to hide or to move towards health? They seem always to fight to the death even when it's a bad idea.

[Buggie]

- Is there any way to get them to tactical suicide, like in AS, when an objective is taken and they need a better spawn? I've been experimenting with Dispatchers disabling spawns, but that's not the same thing.

That is hard topic. in code of Pawn class even exists comment about that

Code: Select all

	// mutator hook to prevent deaths
	// WARNING - don't prevent bot suicides - they suicide when really needed
	if ( Level.Game.BaseMutator.PreventDeath(self, Killer, damageType, HitLocation) )

However AFAIK that not goes be implemented.

Real problem is properly detect when it goos and when not. Because suicide mean lost weapon. And someone can camp on respawn.
And current spot can be better for reach goal because path not goes in enemy snipers sight. And so on.
I not see any fit-for-all maps/cases solution.

- One of the biggest problems / exploits with bots, especially in AS, is that they can't spam. Is there any way to get them to fire at a certain spot as a sort of random spam modifier?

That too unclear one. It very map specific. For some food spam. For another it discover bot position and ruin ambush.

I make nice one ambush on CTF-Face, when make XV version on it. I put camp spot (defense one) into wall hideout near flag. Which not visible from enter.
So you enter, not see anyone, goes to flag, take it and die from flak shot from back.
Pretty evil I know.

Back to your question - that can't be resolved in general way, but you can code some actor, which trigger RangeAttack for some point far away if there nothing else to do. And put it on map/
that must solve your problem, still that be map specific, so work properly.

- Bots always continue fighting, no matter what their health is like. Is there any way to get them to retreat when they think they're in trouble, either to hide or to move towards health? They seem always to fight to the death even when it's a bad idea.

Well, this actually depends from bot setup. If bot play style set to berserker, thy will fight to you even with 1 hp and 1 bullet.
But for other cases, if they feel as weak to enemy, they try retreat. More difference between rank of enemy, more want do that.
I use that in XV. And they pretty good avoid be hit with vehicles. Not every player do such good.
However not without flaws.
You can "scare" them and keep them away flag if you just sit in vehicle near and even not attack them.

Without vehicles they too do so, but it less visible, because no such big difference in weapon rank.
And they do this in dumb way.
It typical look as bot suddenly realize he need backup. So he turn from enemy (or no, depends from bot skill), goes pickup inventory near.
Which is typical ammo. Maybe even for weapon, which bot not have. And after bot try fight back, like it change something.
In reality just because no any other inventory around.
Or be dead because enemy shoot in back.

So there more problem try bot not do so for useless items.

[hayabusa21180]

Real problem is properly detect when it goos and when not. Because suicide mean lost weapon. And someone can camp on respawn.
And current spot can be better for reach goal because path not goes in enemy snipers sight. And so on.
I not see any fit-for-all maps/cases solution.

Well, is there any way to cause certain FortStandards to Trigger opposition bot suicides / respawns? I'm not sure what the way to set this up would be, but I will experiment.

Back to your question - that can't be resolved in general way, but you can code some actor, which trigger RangeAttack for some point far away if there nothing else to do. And put it on map/
that must solve your problem, still that be map specific, so work properly.

Yeah, I have obviously set up AmbushPoints and DefensePoints, but that's not the same as spam. I just want them to shoot at a certain spot on the floor as though they think there is an opponent there, so is there a way to set up an invisible turret (or whatever) to get their attention? That would operate the same as point spam.

Well, this actually depends from bot setup. If bot play style set to berserker, thy will fight to you even with 1 hp and 1 bullet.

I figured this out minutes after posting I have set all bots to Cautious or Avoidant and this does cut down on the bs flak chasing.

[Buggie]

Well, is there any way to cause certain FortStandards to Trigger opposition bot suicides / respawns? I'm not sure what the way to set this up would be, but I will experiment.

I guess so. Via custom code though.

Yeah, I have obviously set up AmbushPoints and DefensePoints, but that's not the same as spam. I just want them to shoot at a certain spot on the floor as though they think there is an opponent there, so is there a way to set up an invisible turret (or whatever) to get their attention? That would operate the same as point spam.

Bots tends to treat turret specially. But yes, you can use custom actors with custom codes for this. However not sure if it goes well with use only stock actors.