two broken SSD within two years

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Barbie
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two broken SSD within two years

Post by Barbie » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:28 pm

Yesterday I switched on my workstation: "Reboot and Select proper Boot device". I booted a Linux live CD then and noticed that the SSD (120 GB, Mushkin Chronos Deluxe MKNSSDCR120GB-DX7) was only recognized as "Sandybridge" with a capacity of 32 kB. And it didn't have a partition table any more. The first SSD was bought in Apr 2014 and after about a year replaced with another but of the same model, because the old one had reported increasing SMART errors... Now I'm through with SSD - at least with the cheap ones - and an old 160 GB HDD is doing its job now. :lol:

(Fortunately I had a system image from Jan 2016 and my data are on a network server, so that the problem were solved easily by putting the image on the "new" HDD and installing recent updates.)
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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by papercoffee » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:37 pm

SSD = Super Schnell Defekt.

This sucks ...I thought SSD is much more reliable than any HDD. How much did you pay for the "cheap one" ?

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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by Wises » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:51 pm

Latest is never Greatest..

like most things in life , the latest & greatest is usually fundamentally flawed and crap upon release.

I still have very old IDE drives which work no sweat at all Seagates/WD's even Hitatchi and Deathstar (rubbish) drives all fully functional.

currently using Sata's which are ok.

SSD's by Hierachy are expected to die fairly quickish ... because USB Flash drives and SD Cards (predesessors) FAIL 90% of the time ~ go figgure :P

in fact I believe the OLD ATARI (Cartridges) would most likely be far more SUPERIOR to these SSD's ... yes the Grandfather of them ALL.

lol.
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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by papercoffee » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:01 pm

Wises wrote: in fact I believe the OLD ATARI (Cartridges) would most likely be far more SUPERIOR to these SSD's ... yes the Grandfather of them ALL.
I would use them.
:loool:

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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by rjmno1 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:00 am

The comp of mine has 1 tb drive also connected to the stata 600 connection.
Its a regular magnet drive and it just works fine for me.
If i see the story,s like barby tells us ,ill do stay with the mechanical drives for a while.
I was first planned to bey a ssd drive also.
But id i see those messages post here , ill stick to magnet drives.
Its stranges those ssd drives has no mechanical rpm head in those ssd drives but never have the life of a magnet drive.
Never the less you have drives now with 6 tb storage on it, espaecialy the blue and black editions.
The hd wich is in mine computer is a oem branded drive never knew the brand, buts still works ok for me.
in mine former configuration ill did have a 160 gb western digital and within the 2 years of lifespan 1 bad sector was located by smart security.
bad sector marked as bad and the drive mounted into another system just works fine, so long as the mbr onit is still intacked they keep running.

pricelist modern hdd,s with huge amount of data storages.
green black red or blue.

https://www.mycom.nl/componenten/interne-harde-schijf

paradigit prizes.

http://www.paradigit.nl/opslag/interne-harde-schijven

happy scroling instead off ssd and more capacity.
Last edited by rjmno1 on Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by papercoffee » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:12 am

rjmno1 wrote:planned to bye a ssd drive
Yeah bye them :lol2:

You mean buy a SSD, right? :mrgreen:

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memsys
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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by memsys » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:56 am

That could just be bad luck.
I don't know that specific model or brand so I can't say anything about your drive but don't forget that hard drives for desktop use are much, MUCH more mature as a technology compared to solid state drives.
Currently we are still in the early days of this tech so bad products are to be expected because some issues are not discovered until the product is actually being used outside a lab. That does not mean the new tech is crap!
Comparing old tech to new tech is a bad thing to do. Why? Because new CONSUMER gear has been getting worse in quality in order to be able to sell it cheaper. Want GOOD quality? Get enterprise grade gear, just don't expect it to be cheap.

"like most things in life , the latest & greatest is usually fundamentally flawed and crap upon release."
That is just flat out asinine, according to that logic a bowing 747 is crap compared to the wright flyer. or how about that old bulky crt tv compared to that nice new flatscreen. Is the old stuff really better? I think not.
Sure, bleeding edge stuff tends to have more issues then 1 or 2 generations down the line of the same thing but this is BECAUSE those issues where found and fixed and that can only happen if you innovate.

"SSD's by Hierachy are expected to die fairly quickish ... because USB Flash drives and SD Cards (predesessors) FAIL 90% of the time ~ go figgure :P"
This is flat out wrong. SSDs use better quality flash chips then then most usb flash drives and SD cards (meaning the cheap ones). with flash you tend to get what you pay for.

"in fact I believe the OLD ATARI (Cartridges) would most likely be far more SUPERIOR to these SSD's ... yes the Grandfather of them ALL."
Apples and oranges! they not even the same tech. the atari cartridges use ROM chips that can write once and read many compared to flash that can write many and read many.

Are SSDs really better on all fronts compared to HDDs? No, flash memory wears with every write and depending on the quality of the flash chip that can be only a few or many, many writes. SSDs are also more sensitive to power issues and if they get damages data recovery is much harder to do.

Do they have advantages? Hell yeah they do! They are much, much, MUCH faster. They don't have moving parts making them less sensitive to shocks and vibration. they are smaller then hard drives. the capacity is going up much faster that that of hard drives and it's no secret that HDDs are getting really close to the limits of what the tech can do. Once this tech fully matures hard drives will have NOTHING on SSDs for day to day use.

In short the tech is far from perfect but at the end of the day the the pros vastly outweigh the cons.

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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by Barbie » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:08 am

papercoffee wrote:How much did you pay for the "cheap one" ?
In Apr 2014 I paid 66,46 EUR (including taxes) = 0.55 EUR/GB. That was quite cheap those days. In the order of 2014 I bought two of them, one for a friend and one for me. My friends SSD is still running without problems as well as a handful (other manufacturer) at my customers in office environments. Maybe I or my OS misused the SSD... :lol2: (It was a boot drive for Win7 and had some applications on it - other programs, VMs, UT and all my data are on other network/local drives.)
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by Wises » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:59 am

SSD's/Flash/DVD's/CD's ALL = Rubbish IMO

:tu:

Gimme a IDE/SATA anyday.
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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by Dr.Flay » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:56 am

And here we see the main problem with how SSD dies.

Just to stop my eye from twitching while reading this thread, I need to correct some things.
The old Atari consoles used EPROMS which is more like your BIOS chips, and has to be totally rewritten each time.
IDE/ATA, EIDE, SATA, SCSI are connection protocols, and any magnetic disc, tape drive, Solid State Device or optical drive can be made to use any of those.
You can have an IDE SSD.

Even though SSD tech keeps improving each time it does they push it too far yet again, so the drives are always on the edge of what is practical.
Hybrid drives are the best solution. A combination of both.

If you have proper PC in a big box, you can fit 2 drives anyway.
Use the SSD only for OS and programs that are fairly static (do not update often).
Change all temp storage to the second classic drive.
That includes Windows TEMP and the User Temp and every downloader or browser you use.
Another common option is to use a chunk of your RAM as a RAM Disc, and use that for TEMP data.
Disable the Indexing service and NTFS last access updates (Cacheman does this for you)

Always get the manufactures SSD tool and see if it has Overprovision/Wear Leveling and automatic trimming.
If so enable them.

Auslogic defrag has some very handy SSD optimisation tweeks, so is worth using even if you don't defrag.

SMART monitoring as mentioned in the first post is very important, right from day 1 of using your drive.
If the SMART info you see does not mean much to you, install Almico Speedfan (small and free) and use the advanced drive info button. It will show a web page that explains the data and compares your drive with others so you can see if yours is good, bad or average. The pages can be shared so you can get advice from other people.
My XP boot drive
My external Seagate with problems

HD tools like Spinrite have been known to resurrect dead SSDs, because they ignore what SMART is saying and try to reset each block anyway.
At this point you have no choice but to brute force them back into working.
HDD Regenerator is the only real alternative
MHDD is free and can also refresh blocks
It is also available on the "Ultimate Boot CD" which should already be in everyone's tool set.

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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by sektor2111 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:29 am

memsys wrote:That does not mean the new tech is crap!
Maybe in your country everything is fine... but last time each "improvement" proved as being done for sales, yes, for sales. We are devastating Earth by resources for producing a serial collection of sh!t which is supposed to be a newer high tech but is worst than any predecessor. I'm looking at more domains not only IT, lamps, pipe connectors, etc. everything looks done by mentally retarded engineers (or some experts only in making money). Here I can see metal replaced with plastic in purpose for a shorter life, and then BUY another - obviously I would like to see them blown up for what they do - they do fool people. SSD for me are still expensive things and then if they are proving a shorter life... wait me to buy one...

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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by Wormbo » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:13 am

So far I only ever used Intel SSDs (first 120GB in May 2011 for the laptop, then 240GB in October 2013 for the PC) and so far they did not disappoint me ever. At one point I even had my PC running for half a year straight (during the colder half of the year), crunching numbers for various BOINC projects. The component that eventually ended the second streak of that kind the next year was not the SSD, but the graphics card, which literally burned down. (Everything else survived, luckily. Afterwards I came to appreciate the silence of the new graphics card's fans and reduced number of case fans running - and both HDDs shutting down as well.)
Then again, I separated programs and most data back when I installed the SSD already. Windows, the swap file and programs go to C:, the SSD. The My Documents folder and large data went to D:, my old 250GB HDD. That data doesn't really benefit from the SSD speed anyway, so I might as well store it somewhere else. Oh, and of course I make sure I have a comfortable amount of free space remaining on the drive. Not only will Windows thank you for that, but the SSD will also be able to apply wear-leveling more efficiently.
Nowadays I also have a 2TB HDD and a separate NAS, running regular backups of the entire SSD system drive and, once in a while, of the 250GB HDD. Even if my SSD should fail at some point (according to the Intel SSD Toolbox that apparently isn't supposed to happen any time soon), I still have everything and could restore everything onto a new volume - either a new SSD (most likely) or, as an intermediate solutiuon, on a new partition on the large HDD.

Also, I don't quite trust SSD controllers that have been in the news with serious data corruption issues. And SSD controllers with compression sound like a scam. Typical data doesn't compress too well, so I somehow doubt those algorithms will significantly improve space usage or drive lifetime. All that does is making the controller firmware more complex and more likely to fail in some way.

BTW: The same-sized successor of my 240GB SSD, the Intel SSD 535, is just about 0.35€/GB or $0.38/GB. Sure, that's still 5 to 10 times the price per GB of a large HDD, but you get much more performance and silence for that. Also I realize there are even cheaper SSDs for e.g. 0.27€/GB, but I already mentioned I don't really trust their controllers. HDDs are for storing data, SSDs are for running your OS and programs, but that doesn't mean either should be any more or less reliable.

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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by memsys » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:41 am

sektor2111 wrote:Maybe in your country everything is fine... but last time each "improvement" proved as being done for sales, yes, for sales. We are devastating Earth by resources for producing a serial collection of sh!t which is supposed to be a newer high tech but is worst than any predecessor. I'm looking at more domains not only IT, lamps, pipe connectors, etc. everything looks done by mentally retarded engineers (or some experts only in making money). Here I can see metal replaced with plastic in purpose for a shorter life, and then BUY another - obviously I would like to see them blown up for what they do - they do fool people. SSD for me are still expensive things and then if they are proving a shorter life... wait me to buy one...
I also said this.
memsys wrote:Because new CONSUMER gear has been getting worse in quality in order to be able to sell it cheaper. Want GOOD quality? Get enterprise grade gear
Look I don't know in what country you live and how things are there so I can't and won't say anything about that.
From an ecological standpoint you are completely right and I agree with you.
Thing is, it's still very possible to get good quality stuff but like I said you need to look at professional grade gear and not consumer grade and this is true for most if not all domains.
Consumer stuff has to be made cheap in order to compete with the rest of the market and in order to make that happen they have to compromise on things like quality and expected life span.
Most people either don't have the money or don't know or care that the cheap stuff is crap.

@ flay great post :tu:

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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by Carbon » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:59 am

Started with the Samsung 830 series at 60GB - a small one for OS only - and it is now in my wife's system and going strong after 3 years.

Now using a 250GB 850 EVO and am impressed, though the speed benefit with the 850 is marginal (maxed out SATA 3 speed anyhow). Partitioned it; 80GB for OS and programs, the rest for read-intensive games: Fallout 4, Dying Light, for example. The SSD makes a huge difference with these games (Faster loads, smoother overall experience), but none really with older, smaller games.

I would only ever buy Samsung or Intel, in that order. The Samsung Magician software sets up the system for an SSD very well, then it can be uninstalled. They are a different animal altogether (as Flay's excellent post points out) and cannot be regarded the same as a spinner.

Once you've used one, you truly can't go back. Anyone who says otherwise simply hasn't used one. For me, the SSD was the single most head-spinning upgrade since my 4770K.

I still use spinners for large storage and backup (12TB over 5 drives); SSDs are still pricey comparatively for the large volumes and I don't trust them for long-term storage yet. My 2 3TB spinners up on the shelf are peace of mind.

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Re: two broken SSD within two years

Post by rjmno1 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:34 pm

papercoffee wrote:
rjmno1 wrote:planned to bye a ssd drive
Yeah bye them :lol2:

You mean buy a SSD, right? :mrgreen:
edited typo.

by the way i did hear from some guys that the 2,5 inch laptop drives frequently go broke kapput after a short time being used.
heared from some guys in the computer store.
best ssd drives what u can have are the peg connected ssd drives ,they are very fast and very good.
But has a bigger prizetag on them. :tu:

You have also the so called combo drives ,its a drive from magnet and ssd combinend.
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