Weapon Comparisons | Chapter 1: The Redeemer vs Doom BFG

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Weapon Comparisons | Chapter 1: The Redeemer vs Doom BFG

Post by Gustavo6046 »

WEAPON COMPARISONS
(Chapter 1) The REDEEMER versus the Doom BFG!!

___________________________________________________________

The redeemer's practical damage at point-blank, Image, is of 1500, and it's estimated range, Image, is of

Image


(extracted from available Epic UnrealScript source code) where 29 . The default lifespan, or max age, is of 1.5, therefore when the current age (which is actually the seconds remaining of life, and not the other way around) is something tiny, like 0.05, Image equals to latex_aa328519b408aa481c30b766330e5003.p Unreal units.


Knowing that Image we can calculate that the max range of the Redeemer, if it were in Doom, would be of approximately 1437.21 units. Now, the effective damage is of around

Image

where 100 is the average player health in Unreal and UT. The average of any numbers Image is always

Image

Many thanks to the Doom Wiki:

Image

We can simply sum up these values, divide them by the number of monsters, and multiply them by 1500.


( Math Tip! The Real Effective Damage Factor, or Image, is equal to Image where Image is the health of the monster of index Image, in a list of size Image of monsters that appeared throughout the whole game, and latex_d07613c6dec98e67c286fda4af293bec.p is the number of such monsters. Unfortunately that is a bit too complex, and would probably involve reading Doom2.wad using some custom utility, which I could do in Python, but not in my favorite languages since libraries like Omgifol are rare.)


So the average of the healths in the table is Image, which is 668.333... (phew, almost triggered my phobia). Therefore we can multiply this number with 1500 and compare the result with the BFG's damage...


Ladies and gentlemen, the approximate damage of the Redeemer in Doom is...

Image

which is approximately 0.046758 times the damage inflicted by a BFG. Seems small, huh? I think the problem is that we divided the average player health from a multiplayer game, UT, by the average MONSTER health from Doom, which is way larger.


So let's fix this.


Let's square the number of monster types in Doom for our calculation:

Image

Which means we will divide by 18 twice to account for the low player health in UT.

Image

Yup, this is around the Doom Shotgun Guy health and should be correctly equivalent to the thinny UT players which are not very easy, nor very hard to kill, for good reasons. (Although logically we could also multiply the normal average monster health by the average of the 1998 singleplayer Unreal's monster healths, which would be accurate, I'm tired of doing monster sums - Unreal has a giant bestiary!)


So let's redo our maths!

Image

Seems large. But maybe it's too large. Once again, though, it's theoretical maths. After all, we all know that practically, with this thing, I don't have to aim!! (shitty Russian Overkill reference to the mod's weapon that ripped sprites from the UT Redeemer lol)
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Re: Weapon Comparisons | Chapter 1: The Redeemer vs Doom BFG

Post by sektor2111 »

How goes that health problem ?
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Re: Weapon Comparisons | Chapter 1: The Redeemer vs Doom BFG

Post by Gustavo6046 »

That's not your problem. I'm doing maths for fun. And to make sure someone replicates the BFG in UT or the Redeemer in Doom correctly.
"Everyone is an idea man. Everybody thinks they have a revolutionary new game concept that no one else has ever thought of. Having cool ideas will rarely get you anywhere in the games industry. You have to be able to implement your ideas or provide some useful skill. Never join a project whose idea man or leader has no obvious development skills. Never join a project that only has a web designer. You have your own ideas. Focus on them carefully and in small chunks and you will be able to develop cool projects."

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Re: Weapon Comparisons | Chapter 1: The Redeemer vs Doom BFG

Post by sektor2111 »

Gustavo6046 wrote:That's not your problem. I'm doing maths for fun.
I did not say that I have a problem - all problems are yours. I was just... asking. I did not know that a simple question is disturbing. My apology for bumping this maths spree... I had only a good intention to not have a post with no reply as noticed recently by EG...
So as a conclusion THIS IS only simple reply :lol2: .

@EvilGrins:
Perhaps finally you can figure why some posts will not have any reply EVER - Q.E.D. :tongue:
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Re: Weapon Comparisons | Chapter 1: The Redeemer vs Doom BFG

Post by nogardilaref »

Gustavo6046 wrote:And to make sure someone replicates the BFG in UT or the Redeemer in Doom correctly.
Mission failed? :noidea

This enthusiasm of yours and math is very cool and all, it really is (no sarcasm), but you didn't seem to actually care in making your post readable at all, and you didn't seem to proof-read it either, it looks more like you wanted to throw in some big formulas there to confuse people and sound smart, rather than actually make it simple to the average Joe to understand and participate.

Thus I suggest the following:
1 - The online program you used has a resolution you can lower so you can adapt your images to fit the style and size of text here in the forum, instead of generating these huge images.
2 - You should replace any meaningful literals with actual variables/letters, be them Latin or Greek letters, rather than presenting them and tell what the number itself means.
3 - The variables should generally be the first things to explain before presenting a formulae, so by the time the reader sees the formula, everything makes sense ("let L be the lifespan of the explosion" for example).
4 - You should explain things in parts, properly structured and separated by sections.

Structure example:
UT vs Doom
<units stuff>
<monsters health stuff>

The Redeemer
<Introduction>
<Variables definitions>
<Formulas>
<Conclusion>

Doom BFG
...

The Redeemer in Doom
...

<Final conclusion and additional notes>
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Re: Weapon Comparisons | Chapter 1: The Redeemer vs Doom BFG

Post by UnrealGGecko »

Gustavo6046 wrote:That's not your problem. I'm doing maths for fun. And to make sure someone replicates the BFG in UT or the Redeemer in Doom correctly.
Well that's rude. :what:
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Re: Weapon Comparisons | Chapter 1: The Redeemer vs Doom BFG

Post by Diego_HoF »

nogardilaref wrote:
Gustavo6046 wrote:And to make sure someone replicates the BFG in UT or the Redeemer in Doom correctly.
Mission failed? :noidea

This enthusiasm of yours and math is very cool and all, it really is (no sarcasm), but you didn't seem to actually care in making your post readable at all, and you didn't seem to proof-read it either, it looks more like you wanted to throw in some big formulas there to confuse people and sound smart, rather than actually make it simple to the average Joe to understand and participate.

Thus I suggest the following:
1 - The online program you used has a resolution you can lower so you can adapt your images to fit the style and size of text here in the forum, instead of generating these huge images.
2 - You should replace any meaningful literals with actual variables/letters, be them Latin or Greek letters, rather than presenting them and tell what the number itself means.
3 - The variables should generally be the first things to explain before presenting a formulae, so by the time the reader sees the formula, everything makes sense ("let L be the lifespan of the explosion" for example).
4 - You should explain things in parts, properly structured and separated by sections.

Structure example:
UT vs Doom
<units stuff>
<monsters health stuff>

The Redeemer
<Introduction>
<Variables definitions>
<Formulas>
<Conclusion>

Doom BFG
...

The Redeemer in Doom
...

<Final conclusion and additional notes>
Does the Aeon Of Death 6 mod help with that? It has some UT99 weapons integreated in the Doom Engine(in this case the Redeemer)
Redeemer Video:https://youtu.be/VVPw8DxLeiw?t=40m13s

But i think they added some extra variables like resistance and splash damage depending of the type of ammo used and damage type so i don't know if this helps.
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Re: Weapon Comparisons | Chapter 1: The Redeemer vs Doom BFG

Post by sektor2111 »

I'm not gonna ask how goes comparison with UT settings: classic, hardcore and turbo - because we have different damage amount here, which did not figure in above "description".
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Re: Weapon Comparisons | Chapter 1: The Redeemer vs Doom BFG

Post by rjmno1 »

Its all looking hebrew to me, i was never good in math.
You are a nerd man (dont mean negative about that). :gj:
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