Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

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TheDane
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Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by TheDane »

Just cycled the bot configuration out of boredom, noticed, that out of 32 preconfigured bots - ALL where white skin models? No Black, brown, yellow, green, blue or other coloured skins? Maybe some "sun tanned" white skins, but the theme seems kind of single tracked here? They should be glad they didn't make the game in 2020 8)

Sorry if this has been brought up before 8)

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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by EvilGrins »

No they weren't. It's the future, the Gods only know the state humanity is in then.

Although, going by the default skins that came with the game there are both Caucasian & Black characters. Less skin tone and more facial characteristics.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by OjitroC »

TheDane wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:02 pm Just cycled the bot configuration out of boredom, noticed, that out of 32 preconfigured bots - ALL where white skin models? No Black, brown, yellow, green, blue or other coloured skins? Maybe some "sun tanned" white skins, but the theme seems kind of single tracked here? They should be glad they didn't make the game in 2020 8)
Yeah, it occurred to me recently that the default bots aren't particularly diverse (nowhere near as diverse as a game made today would be, I would think). Some community made skins for the default bots and some custom models do introduce a greater diversity but not that much - there's a few black characters but hardly any Asian characters.
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UT Sniper (SJA94)
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by UT Sniper (SJA94) »

[yt][/yt]
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by EvilGrins »

Xan is green.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by OjitroC »

UT Sniper (SJA94) wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:12 pm Who the Hell Cares?
Depends what you mean by 'Cares' really - it's of some interest to some people (in the same way as any other thread is of interest to some people but not necessarily everyone) - otherwise TheDane wouldn't have posted about it and EG and I wouldn't have commented (and, like I said, I did think about it a few days ago in the context of a wider reflection on the representation of black people in particular in certain areas of society and public life).

As for taking that any further, obviously not - it's a game of its time in every way (in how it depicts females for example). One accepts that when playing the game and if one wants greater diversity then, as I said, one can look for appropriate skins and models.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by Hellkeeper »

Woah I must have missed something because the cannon winner and default skin Malcolm has always been black and so did most Thundercrash members.

EDIT: Cannon known winners of the Tournament include Malcolm (black) Gorge (fat) Lauren (woman), Xan (bot, maybe cybord), possibly the Skaarj clanlord (not even human). Also U2's protagonist was black and Unreal's default skin is a woman. I'd say Epic has always been pretty relaxed and open with diversity.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by OjitroC »

Hellkeeper wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:07 pm Woah I must have missed something because the cannon winner and default skin Malcolm has always been black and so did most Thundercrash members.
Yeah, that's true - it's much more noticeable though with UT2k4's Thundercrash team.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by TheDane »

Apparently you all misread my post? I was talking about the default preconfigured bots released with UT99 GOTY version (solo and Anthology). Xan and other characters suggested are NOT part of that? The soldierskins.malcom model is used, but my screen looks like a tanned white dude? I see NO black skins, neither does my wife and two kids? The default bot loadout is ..... white, except the few masked one that doesn't show any skin - so that is down to guessing?

see here:

Code: Select all

[Botpack.ChallengeBotInfo]
BotFaces[0]=CommandoSkins.Blake
BotFaces[1]=SGirlSkins.Aryss
BotFaces[2]=SoldierSkins.Malcom
BotFaces[3]=CommandoSkins.Luthor
BotFaces[4]=FCommandoSkins.Cryss
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BotFaces[6]=SoldierSkins.Kregore
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BotFaces[8]=CommandoSkins.Kragoth
BotFaces[9]=FCommandoSkins.Tanya
BotFaces[10]=SoldierSkins.Johnson
BotFaces[11]=CommandoSkins.Boris
BotFaces[12]=SGirlSkins.Vixen
BotFaces[13]=SGirlSkins.Sara
BotFaces[14]=SoldierSkins.Othello
BotFaces[15]=FCommandoSkins.Kyla
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BotFaces[19]=FCommandoSkins.Malise
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BotFaces[21]=FCommandoSkins.Freylis
BotFaces[22]=SoldierSkins.Arkon
BotFaces[23]=SGirlSkins.Sarena
BotFaces[24]=CommandoSkins.Grail
BotFaces[25]=FCommandoSkins.Mariana
BotFaces[26]=SoldierSkins.Rankin
BotFaces[27]=SGirlSkins.Isis
BotFaces[28]=CommandoSkins.Graves
BotFaces[29]=SGirlSkins.Lauren
BotFaces[30]=SoldierSkins.Malcom
BotFaces[31]=FCommandoSkins.Jayce
bAdjustSkill=False
bRandomOrder=True
Difficulty=1
BotNames[0]=Archon
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BotNames[22]=Ichthys
BotNames[23]=Tamara
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BotNames[27]=Sarena
BotNames[28]=Malakai
BotNames[29]=Visse
BotNames[30]=Necroth
BotNames[31]=Kragoth
BotTeams[0]=255
BotTeams[1]=0
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BotTeams[9]=0
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BotTeams[17]=0
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BotTeams[25]=0
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BotTeams[27]=1
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BotTeams[29]=2
BotTeams[30]=255
BotTeams[31]=3
BotClasses[0]=BotPack.TMale1Bot
BotClasses[1]=BotPack.TFemale2Bot
BotClasses[2]=BotPack.TMale2Bot
BotClasses[3]=BotPack.TMale1Bot
BotClasses[4]=BotPack.TFemale1Bot
BotClasses[5]=BotPack.TFemale1Bot
BotClasses[6]=BotPack.TMale2Bot
BotClasses[7]=BotPack.TFemale2Bot
BotClasses[8]=BotPack.TMale1Bot
BotClasses[9]=BotPack.TFemale1Bot
BotClasses[10]=BotPack.TMale2Bot
BotClasses[11]=BotPack.TMale1Bot
BotClasses[12]=BotPack.TFemale2Bot
BotClasses[13]=BotPack.TFemale2Bot
BotClasses[14]=BotPack.TMale2Bot
BotClasses[15]=BotPack.TFemale1Bot
BotClasses[16]=BotPack.TMale1Bot
BotClasses[17]=BotPack.TFemale2Bot
BotClasses[18]=BotPack.TMale2Bot
BotClasses[19]=BotPack.TFemale1Bot
BotClasses[20]=BotPack.TMale1Bot
BotClasses[21]=BotPack.TFemale1Bot
BotClasses[22]=BotPack.TMale2Bot
BotClasses[23]=BotPack.TFemale2Bot
BotClasses[24]=BotPack.TMale1Bot
BotClasses[25]=BotPack.TFemale1Bot
BotClasses[26]=BotPack.TMale2Bot
BotClasses[27]=BotPack.TFemale2Bot
BotClasses[28]=BotPack.TMale1Bot
BotClasses[29]=BotPack.TFemale2Bot
BotClasses[30]=BotPack.TMale2Bot
BotClasses[31]=BotPack.TFemale1Bot
BotSkins[0]=CommandoSkins.cmdo
BotSkins[1]=SGirlSkins.fbth
BotSkins[2]=SoldierSkins.blkt
BotSkins[3]=CommandoSkins.daco
BotSkins[4]=FCommandoSkins.goth
BotSkins[5]=FCommandoSkins.goth
BotSkins[6]=SoldierSkins.RawS
BotSkins[7]=SGirlSkins.Venm
BotSkins[8]=CommandoSkins.goth
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BotSkins[10]=SoldierSkins.sldr
BotSkins[11]=CommandoSkins.daco
BotSkins[12]=SGirlSkins.Garf
BotSkins[13]=SGirlSkins.army
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BotSkins[26]=SoldierSkins.sldr
BotSkins[27]=SGirlSkins.Garf
BotSkins[28]=CommandoSkins.daco
BotSkins[29]=SGirlSkins.army
BotSkins[30]=SoldierSkins.blkt
BotSkins[31]=FCommandoSkins.daco
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by esnesi »

Malcolm looks like Captain Jack to me!
Saturation settings on your monitor?

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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by TheDane »

esnesi wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:08 pm Malcolm looks like Captain Jack to me!
Saturation settings on your monitor?
Putted in that context, yes indeed, I see what you mean, his skin does turn more "brown'ish" then "suntanned white skin'ish":
MalcolmJack.png
EPIC can't be called racists then 8)
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by UnrealGGecko »

My theory is that since the game was very dark as it was, they didn't want to make the skins overly dark either for gameplay purposes, (even the Necris, who have black clothes, have pale skin to compensate).

Also I'd argue the Raw Steel guys are brown :P and we get Nalis and Skaarj Hybrids and NaliCows in the bonus packs for more colors if ya want.

Having said that, while not political, please keep it civil in this thread, as it is a sensitive topic these days.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by EvilGrins »

UnrealGGecko wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:20 pmeven the Necris, who have black clothes, have pale skin to compensate
Technically the Necris are vampires, hence the name of the species and the pale skin. Some variant of Undead.

There's this theory I've always liked that eventually all humans will have the same skin tone, at some future point... though that seems unlikely. Racial distinctions are based more on hundreds of generations born in a certain type of climate than anything else.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by Red_Fist »

Double Dragon original was all, no non whites, never even thought about it till someone told me like 15 years later.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by Terraniux »

here we go...
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