Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by EvilGrins »

Okay, that's kinda funny.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by Feralidragon »

I wasn't going to say anything, but here's my 2 cents on this.

Only because the world is now more focused into battling racism due to recent events related with police brutality and injustice, it does not mean that every bit of lack of diversity elsewhere, be it in fiction, games or any other, is an act of racism in any way, shape or form.

Having a cast mostly composed of one color, race, ethnicity or other is generally a reflection of the culture and ethnicity the creators were exposed to, which up until the world was globalized through the Internet and overall technology, what would happen is that the people you would know from your birth to your death were the people with the same color or ethnicity as yourself.

Therefore, it's to no surprise that fiction and games that came from places with mostly one color or ethnicity rather than others would reflect exactly that, especially things like games from 20 years ago before Internet itself was a thing.
That's not being racist, that's just a bias you inevitably have as a creator and as an artist, since your creations are mostly influenced by what you experienced and who you knew, meaning that an artist, or even entire studios, are not excluding anyone on purpose most of the time, they are just not being included, which is quite different.

It's the same way when you design weapons for a shooter, or buildings for a map, your imagination and creativity will draw mostly from what you have already seen and work it from there, there will always be a bias of some kind.
Even nowadays this still happens despite the exposition of multiple cultures especially through the Internet.

It just so happens that the main issue in the current time is racism against black people in many points of the world, or rather the problem being focused on at the moment, as don't forget that other people exist too, people that would never even cross your mind in respect to the diversity there actually is, be it color, ethnicity, culture, sexuality, religion, or any other.

UT99 wouldn't ever have enough character designs to represent all of them, and there would be thousands, and forcefully representing one per each would almost inevitably lead towards having characters trying to represent everything that characterizes a specific group of people in bad exaggerated ways.

So if you feel that it should have more diversity nowadays, the great thing you will certainly find out about UT99 is that you can mod the hell of out it, and one of the easiest addons you can make is new skins and new characters for the game, so feel free to have a go at it and fill in the gaps you believe that exist.

Some games nowadays are doing a good job in using different kinds of people in a more natural fashion, like Apex Legends for example (the game I mostly know and play nowadays).
Each character is different from the other in terms of culture, ideals, story, etc, and all of them are characterized by their stories and not their skin color.

In other words, the first step to battle racism, is to look where skin color is actually playing a part in how people themselves are treated, and not what games, fiction and art overall have or do not have.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by Hellkeeper »

I mean UT even has female robots, that's like... Female and neutral/ungendered at the same time, that's pretty avant-guard!
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by EvilGrins »

Hellkeeper wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:51 pmI mean UT even has female robots, that's like... Female and neutral/ungendered at the same time, that's pretty avant-guard!
There are no female robots!
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by Hellkeeper »

What is lacking in this game is female aliens!
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by EvilGrins »

Hellkeeper wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:02 pmWhat is lacking in this game is female aliens!
Not true, the Necris aren't human and they have females... or some of the males just really like dressing that way.

Other alien females came later.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by papercoffee »

OK AND NOW WE ARE ALL CALMING DOWN, OR I'LL TRASH THIS THREAD.

Ferali summed this whole issue up really good.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by Red_Fist »

What about this, say they did have black bots, would the game lead to more hate so you can blast another race ?

None of this stuff crosses my mind at all, in gaming. Seems now days that is all any left of center lives and breaths for, is to find or think all this race stuff up.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

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Red_Fist wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:44 pm What about this, say they did have black bots, would the game lead to more hate so you can blast another race ?
Interesting point - which opens up a whole other can of worms - suffice it to say, one can play with as well as well against those bots so the answer, on the most basic level, is probably not (at least one would very much hope not). The other can of worms is the impact of video games per se and that's a very large and wide issue.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by TheDane »

EvilGrins wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:34 pm That said... Admins, please shutdown this thread.
Why? closing topics seems to be the answer arround here? Why? Why not just delete comments that go against forum rules, give the poster a warning and ban if he/she continues?
Retired.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by OjitroC »

TheDane wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:00 pm Why not just delete comments that go against forum rules, give the poster a warning and ban if he/she continues?
Maybe but there is the practical problem that, if one or more posts are deleted from a thread and these posts have been replied to, it then makes those replies (and perhaps the whole thread) largely meaningless.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by EvilGrins »

TheDane wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:00 pmWhy? closing topics seems to be the answer arround here? Why? Why not just delete comments that go against forum rules, give the poster a warning and ban if he/she continues?
Trying to avoid trouble. Overall the thread is fine, then someone like Chris comes in who seems to deliberately trying to cause a problem. Who needs that?
Red_Fist wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:44 pmWhat about this, say they did have black bots, would the game lead to more hate so you can blast another race
There already are black bots, this has never come up before... so probably not an issue.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by papercoffee »

'Got rid of the trash ...if this thread derails a second time it's gone.
Read the house rules and stay on topic.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by Hellkeeper »

Friendly reminder that this is the greatest man alive in the Unreal universe.
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EDIT: also my role-model in real life. I hope one day I can boast the same bodycount.
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Re: Was EPIC beeing racistic when creating UT99?

Post by Dr.Flay »

Even in UT2004 the default is of African decent.
I am not going to say black because the assumption that people only come in dark shades or pale shades, is nonsense.
Even in the continent of Africa there are pale skinned non-Caucasian tribes, who live not far from very dark skinned people.

Outside the African continent the genetics of Afro-Caribbeans has become more intermingled with Europeans so leading to an even wider variation of shades.
Summing someone up by their colour and making assumptions about heritage is dumb.
I know so-called "white" people that work outside all year, and are so tanned they are darker than many so-called "black" people.
It' s just Melanin. We all produce it.

I wish people would stop focusing on the outside and what is different, when what is inside and the same is most important.

No games ever have any characters of the Cornish race. Am I to assume there is some sort of conspiracy against Cornwall and its people from the gaming industry ?
Cornish people in TV and films are never actually played by Cornish actors. Am I to assume the media industry is trying to keep us down ?
No, it just lazyness.