How to recognize a cheater

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Nicefu
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How to recognize a cheater

Post by Nicefu » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:21 pm

Hello. I apologize in advance for bad English (i think some people know who i am :) ). I came here today to discuss cheating and how to recognize a cheater.
I play instagib quite often, and there is one subject who I am just 99% sure that he is a cheater. I also have a video, but to be honest, I don't want to be the person who denounces.

First I would like to discuss how to identify a cheater. For example, if his shot is not always in the center of the screen, is this the first sign that he is cheating?

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OjitroC
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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by OjitroC » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:50 pm

Welcome - have fun.

A starting point for you is to do a search of this forum (just put 'cheater' or 'cheating' into the search box) as this is a topic that has been dsicussed frequently over the years.

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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by Nicefu » Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:16 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:50 pm
Welcome - have fun.

A starting point for you is to do a search of this forum (just put 'cheater' or 'cheating' into the search box) as this is a topic that has been dsicussed frequently over the years.
Hello. I searched and found such topics. But most of them have no video evidence. (no video gtfo so you say :D ) I will give you a very small fragment, and if this is not a cheater, then I must be a crazy.

this subject does not always have such shots, but I'm not the only one who complains about him.

Automatically merged

I have many more high quality videos. I can upload it if needed, but it's about 40gb 7 minutes...

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Barbie
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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by Barbie » Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:03 pm

Nicefu wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:20 pm
it's about 40gb 7 minutes...
try something like

Code: Select all

ffmpeg -i BIG_VIDEO.mp4 -vcodec libx265 -crf 25 small_video.mp4
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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by Buggie » Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:39 pm

It is can be very slippery topic...
Anyway, I wanna note: any spectating not 100% accurate for transfer ViewRotation in moment of shoot.
And some mods try correct many stuff like aiming, precision of view rotation and so on, so data must be analyzed with take in account this.

About video I can share my macro too:

Code: Select all

ffmpeg.exe -guess_layout_max 0 -i big_vdeo.mp4 -acodec libvo_aacenc -y -vcodec libx264 -pix_fmt yuv420p -movflags +faststart -f mp4 small_video.mp4
this cut off audio for reduce size:

Code: Select all

ffmpeg.exe -guess_layout_max 0 -i big_vdeo.mp4 -acodec libvo_aacenc -an -y -vcodec libx264 -pix_fmt yuv420p -movflags +faststart -f mp4 small_video.mp4
big_vdeo.mp4 - can be any. Even .avi or .mov.

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SilverSound
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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by SilverSound » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:08 am

Unless it's obvious (and in that case, it's not) You won't be able to really know or see it through spectator view in a 20 year old game with generally bad netcode.
The use of Spectator view won't help you catch discreet cheaters. You will only ever notice hard cheaters. (snapping)
"Woah what?! I wish I was recording that...."

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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by Nicefu » Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:27 am

I knew you guys would talk about bad netcode and the old game. :loool: Only for some reason this old code does not work on other honest players and they never show such a strange behavior... Okay, here's a 7+ minute video for you. in which I saw a lot of suspicious behavior. at first sight it looks like he's not a cheater (that's what it's designed for)

Don't get me wrong, I didn't come to say ban him, I came to say he's the only one with such (cheating) behavior. almost every day people complain about him. I wouldn't have come to here if I wasn't sure of his cheating.

You decide...

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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:38 am

Maybe he's not a cheater.
Image
Maybe he's a small god.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by Feralidragon » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:08 pm

It's indeed an old game, old engine, flawed net code and even more flawed spectator mode and demo recording, but these are completely overshadowed by the fact that the server you mentioned is very likely running New Net, which does client-side hit detection instead of lag compensation, along of a bunch of other stuff to try to "improve" said net code.

This inevitably leads to plenty of inconsistencies like the one you have shown in your first video: what has likely happened over there is that the player did in fact shoot and hit the player towards where he was facing, because the enemy player was indeed where the player pointed to at the start of the video, before said enemy player had moved, but server-side the shot was properly registered only when the enemy player has already moved, so at that point New Net will just have to visually correct the effect as if the player was pointing at the enemy player in the new position, when in fact he wasn't, otherwise the effect would appear where he was looking as if he missed the enemy player, but the enemy player would still be killed anyway because of the client-side hit detection implemented by New Net.

It's very likely that this player you spectated had a fairly high ping, and that other players have a lower ping reducing the likelihood of these types of inconsistencies.
And by "high" it doesn't even need to be that high: sometimes anything above 50-100ms is enough for this type of thing to happen, especially in a such fast paced game (I even had to slowdown the video to understand exactly what you were talking about).

Either way, these types of inconsistencies are very common when using stuff like New Net, so they can hardly ever be considered proof of cheating of any kind.

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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by esnesi » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:27 pm

If you watch the 7min vid closely you can see that there are enemies running through his crosshair multiple times, which don't trigger a "auto-shot". (assuming you mean he's trigger-botting)
I'm seeing Duku > i'm seeing high level movement from all players > + i'm seeing this is on the ComboGib CTF (Grapple Hook) server.

These guys play w00t/Duku etc all the time, you can definitely expect a higher skill-level here then on a public deck16 match.

* 2m 08sec shows the player in question had around 58 ping.
Last edited by esnesi on Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by Nicefu » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:39 pm

ok, what do you guys say about 4:24 ? there is no enemy there :)

I can understand if the aim is a little bit off center, but you have to be blind not to see this.
the weirdest thing i watched a lot of players and they didn't have that... they are just good players and they have good ping

Guys, I can 100% prove that this is a cheater, but I was hoping that you yourself would agree. One person already told me that he is a cheater. he is a very respectful player and he showed me everything (I will not say who he is, many people know him here too)

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Feralidragon
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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by Feralidragon » Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:11 pm

Same thing.

You do see the player eventually passing the crosshair over where the combo happened, moments before the combo actually appeared, meaning that he did point to the shock ball and likely hit it on his side of the network.
That's how client-side hit detection works.

You're seeing only 1 timeline, but there are in fact 3 different timelines happening with slightly different outcomes between the player himself, the server and the spectator.
You cannot take the footage at face value, you have to consider what happened right before and right after to make a sound judgement.

You say that this doesn't happen with other players, so I suggest to look at their pings and packet loss to see if you find a pattern there.

But that's also subjective because, if this is the Combogib server, even I can perform quite well in it because the skill level of the players generally hanging there is not that high (compared with, for example, uK iG CTF servers), and I don't even play UT99 often at all anymore and can still wipe the floor with everyone there sometimes, even after not playing for months.

What I mean by this is: if the other players do not move as much as this one, then even if they have a higher ping their shots will still match and have a lower amount of inconsistencies, as these inconsistencies only arise the quicker players are moving around and rotating their aim, which this one seems to be doing all the time, putting in the work.
Nicefu wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:39 pm
Guys, I can 100% prove that this is a cheater, but I was hoping that you yourself would agree. One person already told me that he is a cheater. he is a very respectful player and he showed me everything (I will not say who he is, many people know him here too)
From the clips you focused on alone, I just don't see it.

Also, "someone" telling you someone else is a cheater is hearsay, it doesn't prove anything at 100%.

If he came forward and admitted it, well, that would be it, but these aren't enough by themselves to reach a conclusion, because using any sort of aimbot, trigger bot or even a New Net exploit, all of these would still be expected under normal conditions due to the nature of how New Net works, it's that simple.

Because the effect of hitting the shots on his side of the network would still result in the same thing, regardless if an aimbot is used or not.

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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by Shrimp » Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:18 pm

Unfortunately this debate is older than the game itself, and these kinds of things are next to impossible to prove. Everyone can go around for days/weeks/months showing evidence, counter-arguing, etc.

If you feel frustrated or think someone is cheating your best course of action is either to disconnect and come back later, or find another server.

I used to play with incredibly high ~250+ ping, and when I watched video replays of me playing, it looked scarily like other people probably think I was hacking too. It's just nearly impossible to tell.
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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by TankBeef » Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:44 pm

Shrimp wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:18 pm
find another server.
This. The correct answer. These days the best you can do. If you suspect cheating, if there is toxic behavior, if there are bots as fake players, if you do not like newnet...find another server. You could maybe try address your concerns to the admin, but at the end of the day, the server is his house and his rules. Just stop playing there. I personally stopped playing that server, mainly because it is a spam fest disguised as CTF, and I prefer normal weapons anyway so...you are going to waste so much energy trying to "shame the cheater" and you will achieve nothing. Trust me on this one. Not worth it.

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Re: How to recognize a cheater

Post by Dennis » Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:32 pm

No can tell about cheating from this movieclip. But if it is your server then if you don't like the player and other players on your server complains about him/her, you do not need permission to ban the player from your server. To prove something before beeing allowed to ban a player is old fashion, if you pay you decide who stay. This is why we keep all our servers private and only play against invited players/friends.
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