Last Post Standing, the sequel
Re: Last Post Standing, the sequel
i win as always....
good talk though...
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Neon_Knight
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Re: Last Post Standing, the sequel
WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH ZE PATCH IS GOOD AND WELL BUT HAS NO CIGAR WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH
WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH VHERE IS ME CIGAR WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH
WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH ZE PATCH SUCKZ WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH!!!1!1!1!1!1!
WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH VHERE IS ME CIGAR WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH
WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH ZE PATCH SUCKZ WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH!!!1!1!1!1!1!
OldUnreal U1v227/UTv469 Localization Project coordinator/spanish language maintainer - Unreal Wiki
ProTip 1: anybody using the phrase "I'm a True Fan and You're Not!" is an obnoxious, self-centered, egotistical, elitist, narcissist douchebag.
ProTip 2: anybody who uses the "Royal We" when making a demand wants to pass their own opinion as everyone else's.
ProTip 3: Only the people that do nothing but criticize don't make mistakes. Do things. Make mistakes. Learn from them. And screw those who do nothing but throw poison and criticize.
ProTip 4: If the Duke Nukem Forever fiasco wasn't enough of a lesson, perfectionism leads to nothing positive. Don't be afraid of releasing a buggy product. Even the most polished product has its flaws.
ProTip 1: anybody using the phrase "I'm a True Fan and You're Not!" is an obnoxious, self-centered, egotistical, elitist, narcissist douchebag.
ProTip 2: anybody who uses the "Royal We" when making a demand wants to pass their own opinion as everyone else's.
ProTip 3: Only the people that do nothing but criticize don't make mistakes. Do things. Make mistakes. Learn from them. And screw those who do nothing but throw poison and criticize.
ProTip 4: If the Duke Nukem Forever fiasco wasn't enough of a lesson, perfectionism leads to nothing positive. Don't be afraid of releasing a buggy product. Even the most polished product has its flaws.
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EvilGrins
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Re: Last Post Standing, the sequel
*gives you a tissue*Neon_Knight wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:53 amWAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH ZE PATCH IS GOOD AND WELL BUT HAS NO CIGAR WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH
WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH VHERE IS ME CIGAR WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH
WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH ZE PATCH SUCKZ WAAAAHHHHH WAAAAHHHHH!!!1!1!1!1!1!
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
Smilies · viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins
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Neon_Knight
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Re: Last Post Standing, the sequel
Man, and I thought I was annoying... these people make Axl Rose look like a humble person.
OldUnreal U1v227/UTv469 Localization Project coordinator/spanish language maintainer - Unreal Wiki
ProTip 1: anybody using the phrase "I'm a True Fan and You're Not!" is an obnoxious, self-centered, egotistical, elitist, narcissist douchebag.
ProTip 2: anybody who uses the "Royal We" when making a demand wants to pass their own opinion as everyone else's.
ProTip 3: Only the people that do nothing but criticize don't make mistakes. Do things. Make mistakes. Learn from them. And screw those who do nothing but throw poison and criticize.
ProTip 4: If the Duke Nukem Forever fiasco wasn't enough of a lesson, perfectionism leads to nothing positive. Don't be afraid of releasing a buggy product. Even the most polished product has its flaws.
ProTip 1: anybody using the phrase "I'm a True Fan and You're Not!" is an obnoxious, self-centered, egotistical, elitist, narcissist douchebag.
ProTip 2: anybody who uses the "Royal We" when making a demand wants to pass their own opinion as everyone else's.
ProTip 3: Only the people that do nothing but criticize don't make mistakes. Do things. Make mistakes. Learn from them. And screw those who do nothing but throw poison and criticize.
ProTip 4: If the Duke Nukem Forever fiasco wasn't enough of a lesson, perfectionism leads to nothing positive. Don't be afraid of releasing a buggy product. Even the most polished product has its flaws.
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EvilGrins
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Re: Last Post Standing, the sequel
Good morning!
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http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
Smilies · viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins
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Neon_Knight
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Re: Last Post Standing, the sequel
A good fandom is successful by having a diverse community of people who share a mutual interest in the shared object of the fandom, but nevertheless remain mature and sensible enough to tolerate and respect differences of opinion. Most people in fandoms are actually like this.
Then there's Fan Dumb. Fan Dumb is the underbelly, where Serious Business becomes obsession.
The key characteristics of a Fan Dumb tend to be people with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement and/or victimization, and (usually) an underdeveloped sense of humor or perspective about the subject of their fandom, coupled with an obsessive level of interest and (frequently) some rather irrational views on the whole thing. Finally, we can also mix this with the inability to distinguish fact from opinion and/or disagreement from hatred that so many people on the internet seem to be suffering from these days (despite these lessons typically being instilled in kindergarten). They usually believe that the very fact that they are fans of something somehow entitles them to special or exclusive treatment, or that they are being persecuted by numerous different parties (the creator, the producers, other fans, the world at large, etc.) because of their fandom.
They are nearly always people who have completely lost perspective on exactly how important or special the franchise, the fandom and their views on same is in the scheme of things, and don't understand why others don't feel the same as they do. As such, they tend to view even polite or minor disagreement with them and their views as a personal attack, which often leads to them adopting an irrationally combative, defensive tone towards others in response; in discussion, they will usually resort to unrelated ad hominem attacks on others and place value judgments on them, not their arguments — expect snide comments about race, gender, sexual orientation, age, etc. (the correct response to such insults is to say "not an argument"). And any jokes made about the subject of the fandom (or them) will be responded to either with out-of-proportion offense (often peppered with plenty of F-bombing) or a humorless deconstruction of why the joke is "inaccurate". Particularly nasty examples may invite others to fight them or insinuate that they are too cowardly to say anything in person, make threats of violence, "doxx" the other party (that is, publish their contact info online without their consent), or (on occasion) actually engage in violent or threatening behavior in person.
The end result of all these people believe passionately that they're the champion elites of the fandom, guarding and preserving what makes it special, whilst ultimately contributing little of any actual value to the property or the fandom, even contributing to its ruining in the process. As a general rule of thumb, the phrase "True Fans" (or some variation thereof) being thrown around is often a red flag that you're dealing with Fan Dumb, particularly if it's being self-applied; the subtext (or text), of course, is "I'm a True Fan™, and you're not."
Although a Fan Dumb often holds idiosyncratic views about the franchise and demonstrates a passionate interest in it, it is important to note that neither controversial views nor intense interest are necessarily an indication of Fan Dumb in and of themselves. Differing viewpoints are inevitable in a large gathering of people (and knee-jerk objection to a differing opinion simply because it's a differing opinion is often a good sign that you belong in Fan Dumb yourself), and most people join fandoms in the first place because they're passionate about something and they want to celebrate it with other people who find it special. Many people manage to hold contrary or passionately enthusiastic viewpoints whilst still remaining civil and decent; similarly, many dismissed as Fan Dumb hold views that, on the surface, are actually quite reasonable. The problem with Fan Dumb is not necessarily the level of interest or the viewpoint, but the way it is expressed; even a reasonable argument will sound insane if it's being screamed in someone's face.
Taking these fans too seriously is a mistake. Although they tend to be louder than the rest of the fanbase combined, they are a decided minority in almost every fandom (though they often claim to be a majority). Fan Dumb also tends to suffer from an extreme case of Fan Myopia, regardless of what kind they are; in any variation, they are often intractably convinced that the views of "the fans" (or more accurately, their personal views that they've confused with the majority's views) are both more widespread and more mainstream than they are. If you're a producer, pandering to them is usually a good way to make your franchise crash and burn. And to add insult to injury, they usually won't be very grateful that you were thinking about them, but will instead start whining about how you made the franchise crash and burn.
See also Single-Issue Wonk. A specific example is Die for Our Ship. Fan Dumb is a number one contributing factor to both Artist Disillusionment and Fan Disillusionment. Although often a minority, the shrill obnoxiousness of this kind of fan has nevertheless permeated enough people's impressions to construct the stereotype of the Straw Fan. Can be confused easily with a Troll, but, as a rule of thumb, bear in mind that a Fan Dumb is NOT a Troll. See also Unpleasable Fanbase and Broken Base for the massive versions of this.
Compare with Viewers Are Morons. Contrast with Hate Dumb, although the two have been known to spawn one another. Not to be confused with the Web Comic of the same name, the first page of which can be found here.
Sadly, every fandom has to deal with this and all of its variations, no matter how much they deny it and how much they wish this problem didn't exist. Trust us, these people even annoy the creators of the things that you like as much as they annoy the rest of us. We admit that even TV Tropes has its problems with Fan Dumb of its own. Don't worry, Fan Dumb are usually just a Vocal Minority. Keep that in mind if you decide to put this as an example to any media or see this in any media here. Most fans of a thing, including yourself (unless you actually do fit this (and you know if you do)), are not complete and utter morons and just want to enjoy it like everyone else. And on the same flip of the coin, everyone (yes, including you) has probably been guilty of at least one Fan Dumb moment at some point in their lives if they're being honest; the key thing is being grown-up enough to be able to recognize, acknowledge, and correct your mistake, then move on rather than getting locked near-permanently into that mindset.
As a footnote, to a devoted member of the Hatedom, any form of Fandom appears like Fan Dumb. Fan Dumb and Hate Dumb are light and darkness in these regards in that one cannot exist without the other. In fact, the two can often fuel each other, with Hate Dumb causing normally rational fans to become overly defensive and engage in Fan Dumb behavior, while Fan Dumb can transform reasonable critique into a whirlwind of hatred directed at the fandom itself, contributing to Hate Dumb behavior.
https://tvtropes.org/Main/FanDumb
Then there's Fan Dumb. Fan Dumb is the underbelly, where Serious Business becomes obsession.
The key characteristics of a Fan Dumb tend to be people with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement and/or victimization, and (usually) an underdeveloped sense of humor or perspective about the subject of their fandom, coupled with an obsessive level of interest and (frequently) some rather irrational views on the whole thing. Finally, we can also mix this with the inability to distinguish fact from opinion and/or disagreement from hatred that so many people on the internet seem to be suffering from these days (despite these lessons typically being instilled in kindergarten). They usually believe that the very fact that they are fans of something somehow entitles them to special or exclusive treatment, or that they are being persecuted by numerous different parties (the creator, the producers, other fans, the world at large, etc.) because of their fandom.
They are nearly always people who have completely lost perspective on exactly how important or special the franchise, the fandom and their views on same is in the scheme of things, and don't understand why others don't feel the same as they do. As such, they tend to view even polite or minor disagreement with them and their views as a personal attack, which often leads to them adopting an irrationally combative, defensive tone towards others in response; in discussion, they will usually resort to unrelated ad hominem attacks on others and place value judgments on them, not their arguments — expect snide comments about race, gender, sexual orientation, age, etc. (the correct response to such insults is to say "not an argument"). And any jokes made about the subject of the fandom (or them) will be responded to either with out-of-proportion offense (often peppered with plenty of F-bombing) or a humorless deconstruction of why the joke is "inaccurate". Particularly nasty examples may invite others to fight them or insinuate that they are too cowardly to say anything in person, make threats of violence, "doxx" the other party (that is, publish their contact info online without their consent), or (on occasion) actually engage in violent or threatening behavior in person.
The end result of all these people believe passionately that they're the champion elites of the fandom, guarding and preserving what makes it special, whilst ultimately contributing little of any actual value to the property or the fandom, even contributing to its ruining in the process. As a general rule of thumb, the phrase "True Fans" (or some variation thereof) being thrown around is often a red flag that you're dealing with Fan Dumb, particularly if it's being self-applied; the subtext (or text), of course, is "I'm a True Fan™, and you're not."
Although a Fan Dumb often holds idiosyncratic views about the franchise and demonstrates a passionate interest in it, it is important to note that neither controversial views nor intense interest are necessarily an indication of Fan Dumb in and of themselves. Differing viewpoints are inevitable in a large gathering of people (and knee-jerk objection to a differing opinion simply because it's a differing opinion is often a good sign that you belong in Fan Dumb yourself), and most people join fandoms in the first place because they're passionate about something and they want to celebrate it with other people who find it special. Many people manage to hold contrary or passionately enthusiastic viewpoints whilst still remaining civil and decent; similarly, many dismissed as Fan Dumb hold views that, on the surface, are actually quite reasonable. The problem with Fan Dumb is not necessarily the level of interest or the viewpoint, but the way it is expressed; even a reasonable argument will sound insane if it's being screamed in someone's face.
Taking these fans too seriously is a mistake. Although they tend to be louder than the rest of the fanbase combined, they are a decided minority in almost every fandom (though they often claim to be a majority). Fan Dumb also tends to suffer from an extreme case of Fan Myopia, regardless of what kind they are; in any variation, they are often intractably convinced that the views of "the fans" (or more accurately, their personal views that they've confused with the majority's views) are both more widespread and more mainstream than they are. If you're a producer, pandering to them is usually a good way to make your franchise crash and burn. And to add insult to injury, they usually won't be very grateful that you were thinking about them, but will instead start whining about how you made the franchise crash and burn.
See also Single-Issue Wonk. A specific example is Die for Our Ship. Fan Dumb is a number one contributing factor to both Artist Disillusionment and Fan Disillusionment. Although often a minority, the shrill obnoxiousness of this kind of fan has nevertheless permeated enough people's impressions to construct the stereotype of the Straw Fan. Can be confused easily with a Troll, but, as a rule of thumb, bear in mind that a Fan Dumb is NOT a Troll. See also Unpleasable Fanbase and Broken Base for the massive versions of this.
Compare with Viewers Are Morons. Contrast with Hate Dumb, although the two have been known to spawn one another. Not to be confused with the Web Comic of the same name, the first page of which can be found here.
Sadly, every fandom has to deal with this and all of its variations, no matter how much they deny it and how much they wish this problem didn't exist. Trust us, these people even annoy the creators of the things that you like as much as they annoy the rest of us. We admit that even TV Tropes has its problems with Fan Dumb of its own. Don't worry, Fan Dumb are usually just a Vocal Minority. Keep that in mind if you decide to put this as an example to any media or see this in any media here. Most fans of a thing, including yourself (unless you actually do fit this (and you know if you do)), are not complete and utter morons and just want to enjoy it like everyone else. And on the same flip of the coin, everyone (yes, including you) has probably been guilty of at least one Fan Dumb moment at some point in their lives if they're being honest; the key thing is being grown-up enough to be able to recognize, acknowledge, and correct your mistake, then move on rather than getting locked near-permanently into that mindset.
As a footnote, to a devoted member of the Hatedom, any form of Fandom appears like Fan Dumb. Fan Dumb and Hate Dumb are light and darkness in these regards in that one cannot exist without the other. In fact, the two can often fuel each other, with Hate Dumb causing normally rational fans to become overly defensive and engage in Fan Dumb behavior, while Fan Dumb can transform reasonable critique into a whirlwind of hatred directed at the fandom itself, contributing to Hate Dumb behavior.
https://tvtropes.org/Main/FanDumb
OldUnreal U1v227/UTv469 Localization Project coordinator/spanish language maintainer - Unreal Wiki
ProTip 1: anybody using the phrase "I'm a True Fan and You're Not!" is an obnoxious, self-centered, egotistical, elitist, narcissist douchebag.
ProTip 2: anybody who uses the "Royal We" when making a demand wants to pass their own opinion as everyone else's.
ProTip 3: Only the people that do nothing but criticize don't make mistakes. Do things. Make mistakes. Learn from them. And screw those who do nothing but throw poison and criticize.
ProTip 4: If the Duke Nukem Forever fiasco wasn't enough of a lesson, perfectionism leads to nothing positive. Don't be afraid of releasing a buggy product. Even the most polished product has its flaws.
ProTip 1: anybody using the phrase "I'm a True Fan and You're Not!" is an obnoxious, self-centered, egotistical, elitist, narcissist douchebag.
ProTip 2: anybody who uses the "Royal We" when making a demand wants to pass their own opinion as everyone else's.
ProTip 3: Only the people that do nothing but criticize don't make mistakes. Do things. Make mistakes. Learn from them. And screw those who do nothing but throw poison and criticize.
ProTip 4: If the Duke Nukem Forever fiasco wasn't enough of a lesson, perfectionism leads to nothing positive. Don't be afraid of releasing a buggy product. Even the most polished product has its flaws.
-
Gustavo6046
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Re: Last Post Standing, the sequel
Why not the whole deal?
"Everyone is an idea man. Everybody thinks they have a revolutionary new game concept that no one else has ever thought of. Having cool ideas will rarely get you anywhere in the games industry. You have to be able to implement your ideas or provide some useful skill. Never join a project whose idea man or leader has no obvious development skills. Never join a project that only has a web designer. You have your own ideas. Focus on them carefully and in small chunks and you will be able to develop cool projects."
— Weapon of Destruction
— Weapon of Destruction
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EvilGrins
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Re: Last Post Standing, the sequel
I will never be defeated!
http://gauntletwarriors.com/Forums/view ... 312#p62312
http://gauntletwarriors.com/Forums/view ... 312#p62312
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
Smilies · viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins
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JimmyCognitti
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Gustavo6046
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Re: Last Post Standing, the sequel
Mmh! Fences!
"Everyone is an idea man. Everybody thinks they have a revolutionary new game concept that no one else has ever thought of. Having cool ideas will rarely get you anywhere in the games industry. You have to be able to implement your ideas or provide some useful skill. Never join a project whose idea man or leader has no obvious development skills. Never join a project that only has a web designer. You have your own ideas. Focus on them carefully and in small chunks and you will be able to develop cool projects."
— Weapon of Destruction
— Weapon of Destruction
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EvilGrins
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Re: Last Post Standing, the sequel
Nobody has a happier icon than mine!
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
Smilies · viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins
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Gustavo6046
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Re: Last Post Standing, the sequel
It cries too.
"Everyone is an idea man. Everybody thinks they have a revolutionary new game concept that no one else has ever thought of. Having cool ideas will rarely get you anywhere in the games industry. You have to be able to implement your ideas or provide some useful skill. Never join a project whose idea man or leader has no obvious development skills. Never join a project that only has a web designer. You have your own ideas. Focus on them carefully and in small chunks and you will be able to develop cool projects."
— Weapon of Destruction
— Weapon of Destruction