new UED 2.2 !

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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby Hellkeeper » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:21 pm

Now now, everyone calm down. Shake hands and kiss.
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby ASLY » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:37 pm

Im just asked, because I never see this guy, that's all. :D
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby ividyon » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:48 pm

Feralidragon wrote:There are things which can kill a lot quicker than cancer, and I am going to leave it at that and I don't want to bring my own stuff to the table, just keep in mind that Smirftsch was not the only one with problems, whichever kind and severity they may have been.

Fair enough! In that case, sorry for that ignorant outburst, no offense intended. If you had been referring to school/work/daily life/whatever people usually refer to as "problems", that's when it would've absolutely been intended. ;)

As for the rest, I'd say it makes plenty of sense, since the general reluctance in picking up Unreal and just trying the new patch is a huge part of what hampers with its popularity, which is a circumstance that I simply find sad. What you've been saying about "people not knowing about UEd 2.1" and "not knowing about 227" seemed less like a problem with the 227 patch and more of a problem with thickhe---... 'purists' unwilling to let go of the platform they're used to and embrace something new - the same problem we had when UT Oldskool came out, too, just at a larger degree.

Anyway, we've got official statements from Smirftsch now and everyone's friends again, so I'm back to lurking. :p

ASLYE702 wrote:Im just asked, because I never see this guy, that's all. :D


Be glad you got to learn something new today, then. ;)
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby Tim-_- » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:11 pm

billybill wrote:@TimTim

You are another who has broken some heavy ground. I am not sure where all this negative feedback you refer to is posted or if it was done privately. I saw players giving real feedback about real bugs on your forums. And there was a small petition to stop you making changes to the way weapons are switched. There's plenty of reasons to complain when you are making changes to classic game elements. These complaints could be seen in a good light as well. It shows the dedication people have for the game, so much that they don't like you changing the amount of damage a weapon does or making decisions that you may have over-looked the importance of. I'm sure like me these people are still very happy with some of the changes. If they have been I don't know, "mean" about it maybe they thought you left them with no choice, personally I loathe a lot of changes and have problems with the way you have described the changes which seem inaccurate (perhaps comparrison typed out hurriedly) but ultimately it is your mod.

Yeah, when you take on projects as game-changing as 227, newnet, etc., you're bound to receive a wide range of feedback and demands, especially from diehard fans with strong opinions; and naturally, when people are content, they don't say much, while any complaints are usually loud and clear. All human progression likely revolves around that description. We all take the status quo for granted and we're always trying to push things forward and make things better.

Regarding the feedback for my particular mod, what you've seen within the official thread is fantastic. I love it. But the other type of feedback that I was referring to in my last post wasn't entirely public. I was actually opposed to making any changes to any of the weapons' damages and rates of fire, but after receiving an overwhelming amount of complaints about weapon/game balance within the "competitive" weapons community, I opened multiple polls and adjusted accordingly. I also refuse(d) to make certain things easily adjustable, because all that does is segregate an ever-shrinking community even further. The best thing to bring everyone together and increase activity is consistency.

Man, if you only knew the amount of entitlement that many people within the "competitive" weapons community felt and how much hatred and harassment I received when I didn't cater to their every demand. The irony of it all now is that that same community (mostly prounreal) imploded on itself, so all those complaints and all that entitlement was for nothing. But all the work that I put into it as a result was not. (Side note: My public release will probably return everything back to UT's original configuration since the "competitive" community that demanded these changes no longer really exists. Heavy quotations around "competitive". :lol: )

So there's a bit of a lesson to learn from this, and it ties into this discussion about 227 and UT and all of Smirftsch's/OldUnreal's work. I realized a long time ago that no matter what I did, there was absolutely no way to bring that particular community forwards. Given time constraints and the many other limitations already outlined within this thread, let's be real here. Many people are set in their ways, and for something like bridging the gap between communities (games even!), trying to conform to the demands of any one side will almost certainly not end well for the project as a whole. Things die. Communities die. It's just how the world works. But when things die, new opportunities present themselves; and if properly seized, you can end up with something better than ever before.
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby Smirftsch » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:18 pm

@ferali
really happy to have this sorted out now :)

Red_Fist wrote:"Is this now the long expected and already missed "uh I opened it once and although I am not willing to really check why things are the way they are I closed it again and everything is crap" comment?"

No the letters go over the top of the checkbox dropdowns as in like a screen-or window is not resizing for a font.
Like when you see a messed up webpage and the letters go over the top of the pictures type of thing.


all this indicates a messed up installation or a messed up ini, but you always can file simply a bugreport with a screenshot either via mail, via icq, via irc, via oldunreal forums or if nothing helps even here via pm, I'm sure it can be easily sorted out, plain anything is more useful and helpful than posting here an "everything is trash" comment (no matter if that was your intention or not).

Red_Fist wrote:Can you make MH maps in 227 ?
Can we play through the pile of levels that where made in oldskool ?
Also the thing to make it better is that I had these textures that are the same from each but don't work in UT. That would be a big help between versions. I had a 227 map but the textures where all scrambled in UT texture browser.

There is an Unreal version of MH, but I don't know if UT MH will work without modifications, so you can make maps with Unreal MH but I doubt they will work without some additional conversion in UT.

And yes, even playing oldskool maps is possible now, although its probably a bit of pain to set it up, since it requires a lot of ported UT packages which were converted mostly by dots from what I know. Didn't set it up myself yet and don't have the needed files at hand, but was playing some of the campaigns on newbies and rubicons server already.

The scrambled textures however are probably DXT3 or DXT5, which I added support for to have a proper format for alphablending. Easy to avoid when using DXT1 or P8.
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby papercoffee » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:55 pm

TheDane wrote:And howcome Anthrax isn't wearing the green outfit?

Well there is no problem if you want to nominate him for green ... :wink:
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby Dr.Flay » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:27 pm

:confused2: Papa Smirf wears green as a sign of respect. The respect an elder-statesman of the Unreal world deserves.
In many ways we are lucky to still have him with us.
Another person you would see get awarded green status upon arrival here, would be Flak.
She is one of the remaining few that still looks out for us.

@Red_Fist Garbled textures in the browser, are because it is probably a Hi-Res S3TC texture, and the window renderer is still using software. Change your choice of window renderer in the main UT ini.

Actually I can see ACE having a problem with SDK users, if the current available audio renderers have not been white-listed in the many months they have been available, it does not bode well.
Thankfully hardly any of the servers I want to use have it, so I don't see the ACE problem as being so bad.

As an avid user of both, I can say using UEd2 (UT) feels like someone has cut off a hand after using UEd2.1
Even if you don't use new engine features, there are so many time-saving features, you are mental to go backwards.
This is also why I am more than happy to use UEd3 (2K4) for some of my needs. Building, re-building or editing texture packs is so quick and easy.

UEd2.1 always has "add new pathnode" as a right-click option, so you never have to change the actor branch while adding paths.
It allows you to select all copies of a deco or pickup, and swap with the one you have selected (same way you can with textures). This makes converting Unreal<-->UT maps much quicker.
No more, delete, replace, move-on, repeat....

:idea: I use Shivax's version of the botpack, as it has some of the 227 effects for the UT weapons (very nice).
Setting up UT and Unreal to be "one with each-other" is easy.
My installation is "Gestalt". The lines are blurred and they are more.
I'll copy my info from "Your Unreal" to a post here, and show my configs, as it can be said to be UT related.
For now visit here http://my.opera.com/Unreal-Tournament/blog/unreal.
Once I edited all of the Unreal mutators I use to show in the Umenu, it becomes as friendly and useful a GUI as UT.
Many older Unreal modders still forget they now have access to the Umenu, so unfortunately I still have to edit many new Unreal mutator int files.

Talking of splits, the botpack is a good example.
Some think the UT weapons should be pure, and others think they should have the HD weapon effects.
:thuup: I am for the use of the effects, and as Shivax shows in his quick port it can easily be switchable.
To be honest, from the point of view of a new HD SDK weapons pack, it would be handy to have an Unreal botpack with all of the weapon effects enabled.
Comparison would be very useful, and decisions could easily be made on whether to mirror the Unreal HD weapon effects, or go for something else.

As pointed out, much extra functionality can be added to both engines with code external to the core, or in the case of the SDK by bypassing certain parts of the original core components.
There are a few mods designed for both games and have enabled many maps to remain compatible for both. Infiltration, NBSpecials, MonsterSpawner, and UTeamFix have all been around for a long time.
Recent projects such as the amazing "Unreal Computers" have shown that limitations in one editor or engine, do not mean something can't be done.
And in the case of CSWeapons, may just take a bit longer :sad2:

I now play more death match in Unreal than UT, as it looks and sounds superior.
It feels different using "Enhanced DM", but so does using Chaos or Infiltration etc. and other than not having NW3, Chaos, Xpickups and the Xanth realism mod, I am more than happy.
I have a wide range of weapons, mutators, bots, vehicles, monsters, and most importantly to me, a port of Gopostals first MallZombies :mrgreen:

UT is much smoother with a lot of stuff going on, as that is what it is optimised for. However the richness of visuals and sound in Unreal have me hooked.

The EAX-EFX audio is bolted into Unreal, and with the new renderers also for UT, but without anybody else trying to use it in maps it is difficult to gauge functionality. No one knows how to make the original Galaxy EAX profiles, so this is our only option.
I think a simple example to demonstrate the EFX could have been made. Perhaps a video of a demo capture played back, with and without EFX and the sound occlusion.
Currently it is not as compatible as Unreal, as you are limited to using only the OpenAL renderer for adding EFX to maps, though things like the sound occlusion are independent to the EFX reverb settings, so always work.
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby Torax » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:38 pm

Erm..guys.
I'm sorry if i'm entering discussion which minimum knowledge of stuff (i read all of this posts but i'm actually not in of all stuff), but what had you decided?
And what it will be? Move UT into Unreal? Or probably better to forget about this?

Or there are other things possible to solve raised questions?
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby Red_Fist » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:44 pm

Ok I will mess with the ini's then, I did install Unreal, then the patch, then I think 227h, then 227i is how I did things.

My first problem was in the menus to change the viewports, it would never stay, so yesterday I manually edited the unrealed.ini and now they stay.
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby Hellkeeper » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:02 pm

Torax wrote:what had you decided?

Decided about what?
Unreal and UT are separate games with separate engines, there can be no actual merging; the games are slowly being made similar and compatible, but unless some groundbreaking stuff happens, they will remain distinct for a very long time, probably forever. What everyone is uneasy about is that UT is the superior game with a superior community, yet the superior editor, features and engine are now in Unreal thanks to Oldunreal's patch.
That's basically the situation. :wink:
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby papercoffee » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:52 pm

I remember now that Creavion showed me some neat stuff ...mainly texture alignment on terrain brushes.
He made the alignment of the canyon walls of my Northern Lights map in Ued2.1
If only this function would be available in Ued2.0 ... it would make mapping so much easier.

Now I have to see what Unreal version I have... hopefully still patchable. ;)
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby UT99.org » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:29 pm

billybill wrote:
Smirftsch wrote:the drivers could be probably simply whitelisted as well (and yet it seemed to be not worth it for the people I got feedback from), although I have to admit that I have no clue about current anticheat systems in UT. Unfortunately my experiences are showing that the majority doesn't seem to share this opinion about existing mods and compatibility.


I Just want to point out, if I'm not mistaken, a server can whitelist files that are not whitelisted on the main whitelist. So as long as servers wish to be kept in the loop then you wouldn't need a competent whitelist updating person (or rely on whitelist server, the ut servers having correct settings to retrieve updated whitelisted files)


@Dane

That list goes back to like 2008. Funny though I never knew Higor wrote siege :P I hope that's a typo and not an attempt to re-write history. If that's true then I am the author of BT :lol2:

@TimTim

Well yeah it's NewNet, your mod, not theirs, waiting for you to share it regardless :tu: I'm sending you a PM, hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions about NewNet
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby Red_Fist » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:16 am

Well I tried, and moved a few .ini's the actor browser shows like it should, if I look at default properties then the type is right on top of the plus sign box. If I click on it, the minus sign of the box shows on top of the type.
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby AlCapowned » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:21 am

In Unreal.ini, under [Engine.Engine], what is the language set to? If it's set to jpt or something, change it to int.
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Re: new UED 2.2 !

Postby Red_Fist » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:39 am

AlCapowned wrote:In Unreal.ini, under [Engine.Engine], what is the language set to? If it's set to jpt or something, change it to int.


HA you got it buddy :thuup: , it was jpt , SOLVED.

Better help than Microsoft and all the rest, gawd it would have took repair tickets for years, lol.

thanks man.
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