GameSpy closing down

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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by papercoffee »

Where did I dismiss something?
billybill wrote:but because you are too lazy to check and don't believe me I have to post the proof here?
And you are too lazy to draw an anatomical correct human body... :ironic:
Yeah, you have to post the proof if you accuse someone any kind of offence. That is common decency.
You can't just stand there accusing someone and think the majority/justice will be on your side, just ...because you said so.
It has nothing to do if I believe you or Dark. I can't check it ...and if I could check it, I wouldn't have a clue what I'm looking at.
But other people can see and explain what's happening... That's why I keep saying, show some evidences.
Not for me alone, but for the other clueless people out there.
billybill wrote:I'll tell you what, would you stake your reputation on the fact that I'm misleading you?. See how it goes both ways?
I have a reputation?
Cool ...what kind of?
billybill wrote:Here's a question to ponder, how do you think the site knows your server exists?
I HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE!
How about you explain it.
billybill wrote:And I am telling you, if you don't agree with me pointing out facts for the larger community, or people discussing if something that is tolerated or deemed acceptable should be, then by all means you have my permission to then delete my account and messages
Nope.
You have to PM the staff and write "please delete my account". Then we would argue with you if you really want this to happen. You would maybe say yes and confirm it. Only then would we finally delete your account ... But your posts in the forum will stay.

And I don't agree with you posting allegations... Your turn.
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by DLD-RABBIT »

That was some good coffee :gj:
I'll admit I don't know what the deal is with you demo players

I hope this will answer your question...We play demo because that's what we want to play billybill. Version 348 is what our clan plays :tu: No robots attacking 348 UT99 :lol2:
you folks play and support the demo of for reasons unknown
Unknown only to you :agree1:
Now to get back on subject, GameSpy is gone "She be dead :agree1: " Epic has restarted their master server :agree1: Which is a good thing, but we can not rely on just one master server, what if Epic goes down for a few weeks, or stops it altogether because of the new release of games, or perhaps because this game is really getting old :? Let's support 333Networks, and stop all the useless attacks
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by UT99.org »

billybill wrote:LOL. Allegations. OK then. Papercoffee the sky is blue, because I say it is, and because god admits it is because he has made it that way. Do I need to show you photos of something you can check for yourself? Like I said in maths or science the formula is explained to get the result. You are the only one with a differing result, so I'm afraid it's you that will need to explain the steps you took to get this result. I have doubts he has excluded your IP address, unless your ISP has a block on 333networks? That's all on your end. Check where he responded a few posts back and he validates this beyond the point of it being a mere allegation, he does in fact query the master list every three minutes. His code is posted at github, same place as the new UT. It's a good thing that it's as public as it is, or maybe that's why Epic wouldn't have a huge problem with it until lots of others start doing it or it becomes problematic. My point remains that we as a community should somewhat shun this type of behavior, and anything of bad ethics and that encouraging it will only make it deemed acceptable, making the problem worse over time

@DLD-Rabbit. Interesting, I thought the demo of a 15 year old game would be dead. And that all it offers is a UT99 experience with less weapons and maps. I would've thought the alpha/beta of the game would be better than the restrictions of the demo. The gameplay is not as good but far more weapons and maps. Grrr I must have missed something :(
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by papercoffee »

billybill wrote:LOL. Allegations. OK then. Papercoffee the sky is blue, because I say it is, and because god admits it is because he has made it that way. Do I need to show you photos of something you can check for yourself?
But you are wrong, the sky isn't blue. It's pretty much colourless ... it's density breaks the light like a prism.
The most visible colour is that with the shortest wavelength and highest energy, which is actually blue.
ultraviolet isn't a colour because it's invisible for us.
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by DLD-RABBIT »

@DLD-Rabbit. Interesting, I thought the demo of a 15 year old game would be dead. And that all it offers is a UT99 experience with less weapons and maps. I would've thought the alpha/beta of the game would be better than the restrictions of the demo. The gameplay is not as good but far more weapons and maps. Grrr I must have missed something
:agree1:
You have missed something.......We have all the weapons of the full version "Mods" and a few that the Full versions doesn't have. We just have 6 maps, currently running 5. Gameplay may be a little better in demo, but really it's the same. We call it Extreme because it has all the FV stuff in 348 UT99. :shock:


http://www.gametracker.com/server_info/ ... 91.5:7777/

P.S. We are still alive, as far as the server is concerned. :tu:
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by Dr.Flay »

billybill wrote: I am still interested in his response, as I might as well start querying the master lists with robots myself. I'd sure like to flood them all offline and steal all their servers be the dominant master server after they all shut down due to irreleventness and being abused. I will be the supreme master list leader who has entries that are uplinked from anywhere. bahaha. Well, it's still far too much of a coincidence and far too much of a risk.
Ah, I understand.
You seriously believe that Darkelerious seeks some form of dominance or advantage or fame.
That is obviously the way you think billybill, and you seem to think that is also how everyone else operates.
It is not in Darkelarious's interest to become some form of uber-master, or for any master server to somehow be dominant.
There is no prize for the winner. There is nothing to win. It is not a competition, and never has been.
333networks is a hobby he does while he gets on with the rest of his more important life.

Ideally all masters are equal and can communicate in both directions (imagine p2p networks). This allows for people that insist on using 1 master to see all the servers no mater which they use.
The ideal situation is to use the one geographically closest as your primary choice, and a couple of backups (me, I like having a plan-B. Having a plan-C as well, is way better. You don't need to be a tactical genius to see the advantage, and also why UT was built to use multiples from day-1).
The Unreal crowd have been running the new masters as equal peers for a while now, and this is how it should be.
With the new Unreal update the load is evenly spread among equals and old masters alike.
There is no dominance fight amongst them, or need of it.
Dominance leads you down the path of GameSpy and destruction.
billybill wrote: If I see other games being supported on his site I'll be very impressed, the officially supported games should be having direct uplinks directly to his server too, should be no need to continue the port scanning
The publishers that use 333nw as a backup (note 333nw is always the backup), will be listed on the site. They have the option to host their own version (part of the complete 333 package), or rely on the display at 333networks.
Some go one way, some the other.

I have already said before, that 333networks did not go looking for business, so don't expect to see the list grow much.
Help was requested by members of their communities, and being helpful types we responded to them and I contacted the various companies, who were needless to say very grateful, and after a few quick tests they were all up and running. Most importantly they are now in charge of their own network, and can never suffer the demise of the provider.
I have even been offered freebies/credit on my steam account by some of these companies, and have declined their offers, and when I asked the rest of the group if they wanted freebies, guess what ?
Everyone said no thanks.
They are just happy that other people are happy, and a good job is done :tu:

OK.
Reminder of the topic title
"GameSpy closing down"

Old news, it has closed.
It is bereft of life.
Shuffled off this mortal coil and gone to meet the quire-invisible.
Unless anyone has something to say about GameSpy, please put it elsewhere.
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by UT99.org »

billybill wrote:First things first, you force me to quote you out of order
Dr.Flay wrote: OK.
Reminder of the topic title
"GameSpy closing down"

Old news, it has closed.
It is bereft of life.
Shuffled off this mortal coil and gone to meet the quire-invisible.
Unless anyone has something to say about GameSpy, please put it elsewhere.
I don't think you can use your admin to have the final say on things. If you request nobody else comment, surely you shouldn't say something provocative in the same post. So I'll answer you, and if you stand by nobody making any more comments regardless of what new revelations come to light then you wouldn't answer yourself, make sense?
Dr.Flay wrote: Ah, I understand.
You seriously believe that Darkelerious seeks some form of dominance or advantage or fame.
That is obviously the way you think billybill, and you seem to think that is also how everyone else operates.
It is not in Darkelarious's interest to become some form of uber-master, or for any master server to somehow be dominant.
There is no prize for the winner. There is nothing to win. It is not a competition, and never has been.
333networks is a hobby he does while he gets on with the rest of his more important life.
I don't know if he's seeking dominance or not, it's coincidental that he sends mass packets to the other master servers. It's also coincidental he's never moved to try and cover Unreal1 where he would undoubtedly be asked by other master server owners why he needs to mass packet them. I can't say I fully agree with your Plan B Plan C talk either. If you think Epic server will go down without warning, which could happen, a temporary backup is all you'd need. It wouldn't be permanent.

As you pointed out. Luckily between Unreal and UT99 the client got a new ability to retrieve the list of game servers from mroe than one list at a time. Unfortunately it encourages people like 333networks to come in and start stealing servers from other lists by pretending they are a UT client

What about 333networks negotiating with some of the owners into receiving new servers as they are uplinked to them? In fact he wouldn't even have to query them on their query port. If he understood the uplink code it has it's own dedicated port. It doesn't seem a little weird that a master server would query servers as if a client, and master servers as if a client? It's Darkelarious's code, he seems so proud of the bad parts about it and never thought of making it work with others or if I could borrow a quote...
Dr.Flay wrote: The Unreal crowd have been running the new masters as equal peers for a while now, and this is how it should be.
Equal peers? I really like the sound of this.
Dr.Flay wrote: I have already said before, that 333networks did not go looking for business, so don't expect to see the list grow much.
Help was requested by members of their communities, and being helpful types we responded to them and I contacted the various companies, who were needless to say very grateful, and after a few quick tests they were all up and running. Most importantly they are now in charge of their own network, and can never suffer the demise of the provider.
Can you elaborate on this, for the sake of the topic. First I dispute the looking for business part. We can all see clearly, both games had their forums hit upon by 333networks where nothing was mentioned of how UT internally fixed the problem of clients having bad default master servers. More along the lines of "add 333networks!!!", although we can't be certain the posts originated from 333network members. Also, you mention they use 333networks "only as a backup" if I understood that right. Once again to correct you *sigh*, they fixed the impending gamespy server shutdown by releasing new game patches with 333networks as the main server both for clients and the uplink line in the dedicated servers. (both those games). I did hear talk of another master server in the forums but it never eventuated into the official files from what I can see. These folks are relying on 333networks for the time being. To be clear I'm steering clear of mentioning the long list of non Unreal engine games who may or may not have officially endorsed 333networks as a main or backup server
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by papercoffee »

billybill wrote:I don't think you can use your admin (power?) to have the final say on things.
Well, but we can indicate you to stay on topic... that's our job! you know?

For the remaining thing you wrote did you lost me again.
You may elaborate please.
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by UT99.org »

billybill wrote:I will try. If I say papercoffee doesn't like coffee and follow that with "you are not allowed to respond", it is similar. If no new revelations come to light (ie nothing said that is refutable), then it's much more appropriate to say you are not allowed to respond. It's something that can be abused too easily, someone wanting to bend the truth by using weapons or muscles to do so. Or in this case flexing mod powers. I don't think we were far off topic anyway, I guess it gets personal when someone is spokesperson for third party site that is in the line of fire
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by papercoffee »

billybill wrote:I will try.
I did mean the whole server talk in your last post.
Anyway ...I gotta go.
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by Dr.Flay »

*Damn! lost my post. not enough caffeine in my body yet. I'll try and cover it all again*

Fair enough.

I was just trying to guide people back on topic with some Monty Python humour.
The reference was to GameSpy being dead, not the conversation (sorry if it seemed I was dead-ending the topic)
If anyone want to discuss matters that specifically relate to 333nw, it just seems to make sense to move it to another thread :noidea
This topic is open to anything relating to the GS closure, and I understand 333nw is in that mix, but this topic has drifted into just being about 1 thing again.
I am also aware that you are not the only one to be going down this road (someone was going to get a slap via PM, but now I'll just set the dogs on him :wink: ).

I'll cover the rest in a mo. my coffee needs attention :tu:
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by Darkelarious »

GameSpy went down. GameSpy was, by my knowing, the only "multi master" available for both UEngine and non-UEngine based games.
UEngine based games use a protocol that was drafted by (or with) GameSpy (GS v0 protocol).

333networks was originally intended for UT99 only, but we discovered that it works for UEngine based games too.
UEngine uses that GameSpy protocol.

Quod erat demonstrandum: 333networks can support all games that use the GameSpy v0 protocol.

However, I must also honestly add that the list of supported games on the 333networks site is incorrect or incomplete -- since GameSpy went down, a lot of people started trying whether their games worked with 333networks too. And it did. In other words, 333networks supports a lot more games than we originally anticipated. I think that is something to be proud of.
billybill wrote:What about 333networks negotiating with some of the owners into receiving new servers as they are uplinked to them? In fact he wouldn't even have to query them on their query port. If he understood the uplink code it has it's own dedicated port. It doesn't seem a little weird that a master server would query servers as if a client, and master servers as if a client? It's Darkelarious's code, he seems so proud of the bad parts about it and never thought of making it work with others (...)
billybill wrote:It's also coincidental he's never moved to try and cover Unreal1 where he would undoubtedly be asked by other master server owners why he needs to mass packet them.
Oh, I am sooo sorry that I did not discussed all my whereabouts with you in advance.

Get your head out of your ass and stop pissing vinegar on everything you see. I do not have any obligations towards you, nor do I have to explain any of my actions to you. Stop treating me --or people who speak in favour of 333networks-- like shit.

Instead, why don't you join us at IRC every once in a while? Perhaps have a good word with the OldUnreal admin, or the guy who runs Telefragged/GameRanger. You said that you did also thoroughly read and understand the source code in my git repository (so NOT "github"), so you have read and understood that 333networks synchronizes in TWO directions with the other available master servers for (but not limited to) Deus Ex, Postal, Unreal, UT and Rune. We DO communicate with other master server hosts. We DO have mutual understandings and agreements. We just don't see a single f_cking reason why we should keep you up-to-date about such technical or trivial details.

From my logs I indeed see that I query other master servers (hell, that's how I programmed 'em). I also see that several master servers query me in the exact way. Some of them from admins that we agreed with. Other master servers query me without asking. It's not like every UT player nicely asks Epic Games if they can please sync their game list. That's the purpose of a master server: to provide this thing. If you don't want to provide, then you don't have a master server! The total amount of data exchanged between masters is severely less than the total master server bandwidth.

I'll stick with the suggestion to open a new topic/thread with benchmarks and documentation.

*edit: How about this: if you send me your server's IPs, I will firewall them and make sure that 333networks no longer provides services for you. Okay?*
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Oh, and we still are ready to receive donations. The url works, right? It doesn't seem to be doing anything...
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by UT99.org »

billybill wrote:Were you not asking for a coder a few posts back? Sucks to be you that I am probably the only person who could do what you ask without breaking a sweat. I know how your master server works in and out. I'm truly not exaggerating the time-outs I receive on the Epic master server, which is caused by excessive traffic. I don't agree at all with your philosophy of supplying a server for the reason of 'to provide another master server' when you are the reason for the faults in the first place. If you read my post I ask the question what if more robots like your were doing it. It's not necessary to start with despite your claims of trying to supply a perfect master server.

There's a reason I don't appear on IRC and it's personal. You are suggesting I talk with the Unreal guys and ask around about your reputation? I can believe you do work with them and their servers and not query the shit out of them like you do Epic. As for your past, I truly don't have to, I've seen the way you close and remove threads that reveal anything about you in fear of the floodgates opening. But hell I could be wrong, it just looks that way to people who actually see the threads before they disappear

And sorry but that edit at the end. God you are an idiot, I already block your master server and I encourage others in the UT community to take a stand and do the same. Too bad you can't block us all by default
:loool:

Wishing you luck with all those games, there's a great deal of them. Maybe now is the time to start correcting past wrongs don't you think? I mean hell you might even find a coder or two that would help you if you provided a respectable service
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by Red_Fist »

Oh, hey, it finally changed, it won't find MH servers or maybe other servers that are not populated anymore.

So how can I hook up to SOME master server, and find EVERY live server on the planet ? I am talking about UT99 only.
Or won't it work anymore because the server dudes would need to change things to a non default IP ?
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Re: GameSpy closing down

Post by UT99.org »

billybill wrote:Redfist. It will still work if you keep refeshing, it still works just not as well. You might need to refresh the list a few times

All this because one guy thinks he's special and can use robots to query the list.

If Epic server does go down it should never be for long, all the servers uplinked to whatever secondary master server you can find and edit your settings to will show up. I'd see this as a good way of letting people know to uplink to other servers. The time Epic is down some UT & Master servers would get traffic they normally wouldn't get.

Unfortunately once again some people think they are above all this

Maybe I will prepare a little email template here for those who keep getting the timeouts, it will be directed to the email address on the EULA and specifically state the ip address of 333networks.com

I'll have to use the reference to using their online services (ie EpicGames.com) with a UT3 Eula, since the one used last time their master server was active is long gone. http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Unreal_Tou ... _agreement

Specifically, section 16, and 17: a.i.A, a.i.F, a.i.G, b, c

The thing is he's not using the game itself so he has nothing to delete. All he's done is back-engineered the gamespy/masterserver protocol. I'd say they can ask him to stop using the UT name and logo for one, block his IP (I'll add that they should never have been put in a position where they'd have to go this far), and seriously question his unprovoked mass packetting towards IP's he's obtained through scanning of users of the master server. I'm guessing the email address you put on your server will be available on the net for archiving and thus spambot retrieval within minutes of uplinking as well unfortunately
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