CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by nogardilaref » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:12 pm

Holy shit... how many turns did the whole thing have to take to end like this? :omfg:
I guess we're looking at the worst possible outcome of what I was afraid at first when I saw the whole thing get as convoluted as it got.

I already made this decision a while back, but if there's another competition with me in it, I will be the one organizing it and defining everything properly, and it certainly won't be here or in a forum format kind of thing, it will be something properly done. There goes the saying "if you want something done right, do it yourself", which has served me well thus far, and which apparently I should keep abiding to.

As for this one however, let's just quickly wrap this up by assembling the mappack and give the prize to the right participants, and be done with it.
No need for all this random bullshit.


@Carbon: Those in charge are either too busy, or don't really care much, so as someone who actually had to go the extra mile from the start to minimally define this contest from the start and get things going, and maybe being the one of the only ones here still interested in wrapping it up properly, allow me to be the one explaining it out to you.

There were 2 voting moments:
1 - A first one, from the participants themselves, and this is the one which counts to determine the winner, and its results are here:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12447
2 - A second one, this one, from the overall community, and this one doesn't count for anything other than perhaps knowing the opinion of the community itself and how much it might diverge from the participants.

So, as far as the prize goes, memsys won as you can see in the link I provided, and those in second place are Terraniux and ExpEM, but they are tied.
Terraniux is waiting for ExpEM feedback to know how to proceed, and if he wants the prize or not, or how he wants to sort it out.

From there, I misunderstood a potential solution from Terraniux (using this poll as well), so this poll still is, for the time being, for intents of prize giving, meaningless.
In summary, your prize should go to either Terraniux or ExpEM.

As for makemeunreal, he just seems to be randomly stirring up meaningless confusion and entropy into this whole thing for some reason right now that escapes me, which should probably warrant him at least a PM from an actual admin to check if he calms down.
Either way, he ended up in third place, so unless both Terraniux and ExpEM explicitly say they don't want the prize (Terraniux at least seems to want to take it unless ExpEM wants it too), then he's not even part of the equation right now.

Hopefully now everything should be more than clear.

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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by Terraniux » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:54 pm

I apologize for my previous post. But I hope people understand my reaction.
Sorry Carbon. My can of salt is empty now. This is exactly the result of confusion.

Code: Select all

but if there's another competition with me in it, I will be the one organizing it and defining everything properly, and it certainly won't be here or in a forum format kind of thing, it will be something properly done.
Please do! I'd like that. :tu:

Terraniux is waiting for ExpEM feedback to know how to proceed, and if he wants the prize or not, or how he wants to sort it out.
1 week almost passed now. I'd say wait 3 more weeks for ExpEm to reply ( The end of November : the 30th ). If he hasn't replied by then, I claim the price. I think that is very fair. Unless someone disagrees with that. :what:
If he replies in the meantime - he and I will discuss about this.
Hopefully now everything should be more than clear.
It is crystal clear to me now. Thank you Nog.

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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:08 pm

Me, random player I had a bad time trying to figure who is the best from these maps - DONE so far not Later. Given contest rules, regarding to USELESS annoyance developed I can tell that around 3 maps are not subject for contest so I filtered them out.
First of all Bot play and Net stuff were RULES, regarding to fake misunderstanding described around some grammar which everyone is taking as wants - see other contests - we talk about quality here. By reading RULES and looking at maps after contest ending I could figure very poor stuff.

2 maps were not subject for A.I. either and another one was a SUMMERSUN Ambience Mapping Contest, so to speak nothing that much related to Chaos and yeah people voting that were somehow DUMB at this point having no clue what means CONTEST'S THEME, yeah, they are dumber than sh!t - totally agree with <makemeunreal> :ironic: . Else if map is OK but IS OUT OF SUBJECT seriously, perhaps people voting that did not have a clue about subject - a small I.Q. test probably would be recommended. It was like let's do a CTF map, and then we come with a DM one. Which part of rules was in fog ? Criteria of voting something out of RULES is leaving me confused. It's like in a contest map with 3072 UU we are coming with a PERFECT MAP but it's a 8192 UU map. Is this part of contest ? NOPE ! It do breaks the rules. Which part of word "RULES" has a different meaning ?
Me, personally, I voted SilverSound at equal with MemSys and Terraniux. MemSys overloaded nodes a bit, and Terraniux had some Net stuff problems but not critical for game-play. The same good points for DOM map but I'm not that interested in Domination game and it needs mutator for preventing dumb telefragging and reducing default collision crashes.

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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by nogardilaref » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:52 pm

Sektor, for a guy so focused in quality and whatnot, and so attentive on what's going on, you are utterly missing the point of the whole thing and the fact that the root problem was how the contest was organized, defined and managed in the first place.
And the result is simply fully on sight.

Do you know one of the most important things in organizing a contest? Properly written and defined rules.

This means correct grammar, and writing them in such a way that they are clear and closed from interpretation, as much as possible, and there's an actual proven way of doing so, and is used in everything from actual real contests, sports, to contracts, even laws and engineering specifications (be them software or hardware), such as the proper usage of words and expressions like "MUST" and "MUST NOT", and in the case of things like contests and sports, the consequences for not abiding to such rules (points deduction, disqualification, etc).

Maybe to you they weren't open to interpretation and sufficed, but your own grammar is clearly not exactly brilliant either, so I am sorry to say that your own interpretation on how things are interpreted is dubious at best to me. Therefore, give it an effort to actually study English further in the same way and passion you study UT, and you will see what I mean, and only then you can actually say all you want about how open or closed to interpretation things really are.

English is not my native language either btw, but I have used it enough for so many years, and I have read enough and actively looked up enough grammar rules, especially when on doubt.
And it's not perfect, far from it, and I still do many mistakes, but I know just enough to be able to tell what things like rules are open to interpretation due to the way they are written, and concerning what wasn't written at all and which should.

And fact is, and absolutely no one can really deny this, especially those with English as their main language: the contest rules were unclear, open to interpretation, and lacked the necessary information to properly dictate which maps qualified and which did not.
And the thing is, no one really bothered to properly define it, there wasn't enough care to begin with to make this a proper contest, and still isn't, and me not being the one responsible to organize it, wouldn't certainly be the only soul to loose my sleep over it.

So as far as the outcome goes, it's all simply a direct result on how the contest was defined and handled, from start to finish, and it wasn't pretty. Hence now the only course of action is to just finish it, and next time (if there's a next time) do things properly, and personally I am going to take matters into my own hands next time if I have to, I won't let this sort of thing happen again as long as I am at least a part of it.

I know I may sound arrogant in a way, but I am just too well aware of all the mistakes committed here which resulted into this chaotic thing, from the very start, and there's absolutely no justification for it other than there wasn't enough care to do it in the first place.

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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by editor Dave » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:19 pm

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/chaos
chaos
NOUN

[mass noun]
1. Complete disorder and confusion.
1.1Physics The property of a complex system whose behaviour is so unpredictable as to appear random, owing to great sensitivity to small changes in conditions.
1.2 The formless matter supposed to have existed before the creation of the universe.
1.3Greek Mythology The first created being, from which came the primeval deities Gaia, Tartarus, Erebus, and Nyx.
It was a Chaos contest, so a little bit of confusion throughout was part of the theme, right? :tongue: For me, the confusion already started with the theme itself: What exactly is "Chaos"? The definiton of it doesn't specify anything related to Halloweenish imagery (otherwise I would assume you would've called it Halloween contest, anyway). So I don't get, why for example makemeunreal's contribution caused confusion concerning the overall theme. Couldn't the bright colors and the mass of Water Zones in a MP map cause visual confusion (if you are rather accustomed to darker colors in UT maps) or movement confusion (if you are rather accustomed to regular air control in UT maps)?

Paper's and Griffin's map is confusing as hell, yeah, it's not really meant for fragging, but why should it? Of course, it used files that were originally prohibited. Some people sticked to the rules, some took them loosely (because, as already stated, they were), some could get extra points, some should lose some points or whatever, but what matters in the end is that there has been some fresh air of new maps. And all of the maps have some inherent merit in one way or the other.

Regarding the prize: Since the obvious winner declines it, ExpEM is the next one if you put community and participant voting together. If he declines, Terraniux should get it, then makemeunreal. Btw, if there is a tie, the places will be counted as different ones, so ExpEM and Terraniux are both second and third place in the participant voting and makemeunreal is actually fourth place (I do wonder if his score would've been better if more people didn't tie the concept of "Chaos" to this one mod which is a shame; it wasn't really specified or explained).
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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by Terraniux » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:33 pm

Since the obvious winner declines it, ExpEM is the next one if you put community and participant voting together.

The poll is a poll. There is not official scoring in there. Just players opinions. Or is the poll now suddenly part of of the official point scoring now? Someone help me out here.
IF that is the case, then I indeed can not claim it. Then ExpEm get's the price afterall ! Good thinking there Dave and Nog.

Edit - I traced it BACK.


Everyone who submitted a map before deadline have to vote here to determine the WINNER of the contest.

In this thread... only the participants can vote for the best map of the contest.
You will give 3 points to your favourite, 2 points for your 2nd, and 1 point to your 3rd favourite.
You can write a whole review for all maps but please mark the three winner clearly.
.....

.....

...
)
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GECKO / FLAY / PAPERCOFFEE -- where are you. Someone notify them please!


Sorry guys, I'm really sorry. I am so confused :omfg: :omfg: :omfg: :omfg:
Last edited by Terraniux on Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by makemeunreal » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:50 pm

I don't remember if Mr. Perfection sent over an entry last year or not. Nogard...
But the cause of me askin` something like...will users vote as well? Was because thats how things were last year. I did participte btw. Lemme quote

The maps will have a public voting poll to ascertain the Gamers Choice. But also a separate vote of all the participants to determine the winner of the contest. The mappers can vote for others but not for his own map. This will be explained in details later in the Vote threads

I hvent counted my poinzs nor did tactic or anythin like that. Since i sent 4 points to terra. 3+1 here. Check shot you nice guy.
Shit grmmar on purpose. I dont care. Go fuck yourself please and ban me since i dont care.
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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by makemeunreal » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:53 pm

Idiot dumb shit. Whats the point of even asking something if one will only get woofed at like i got here. Or get no ttention at all. Posing me as the guy who stirs shit up was a shit move.
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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by papercoffee » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:17 pm

:wth: I'm right now at a train back to Cologne. So, I can't write well.
But I have to say, I'm disappointed about what I have to read hear.
I'll explain everything tomorrow.

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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by OjitroC » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:28 pm

editor Dave wrote:What exactly is "Chaos"?
No doubt about it! Chaos for the purposes of the CMC is/was the ChaosUT Mod - the Contest was even called "The 2017 ut99.org ChaosUT Mapping contest" - if the theme were actually "chaos" then there would be no need to capitalise the c.
Terraniux wrote: The poll is a poll. There is not official scoring in there. Just players opinions. Or is the poll now suddenly part of of the official point scoring now? Someone help me out here.
You are right - according to the contest rules, the only poll that matters for determining the winner and placings is the poll of the contest participants. Again there can be no doubt about that.

As a disinterested but keen observer of the discussions here, I can only agree wholeheartedly with what sektor2111 says in his post. On the whole the contest rules seem fairly clear to me and where there was doubt reference to the discussion thread and to the practice in previous contests should have helped to at least shed some light - I do agree that they could have been more clearly written in some places and I did try to make sensible and helpful contributions to ensure that that was the case.

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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:31 pm

Yes, and then I have never said that I'm speaking english well or such - my english is bad - that's the truth :| .
However, by reading explanations toward Chaos theme
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12335#p99420 - "extra quote - Chaos will never be set in a nice location."
described by Flay, we might have some ambience inspiring fear, regrets to be there, a miss-balancing feeling like death is tracking you, not like you are in a sort of holiday at Miami Beach. Else, after my understanding toward some let's say described rules I see:
UnrealGecko wrote: -Any game-type allowed.
-The contest badge must be placed somewhere into the map on a visible place. Not just in some easter-egg room.
masked 256x256 pcx version by Terraniux masked 1024x1024 pcx version by nogardilaref.
- Map Screenshot, Bot-Support and Music (at least a MyLeveled blank.umx) are a must.
- When naming your map, make sure the name has the -CMC- prefix. (DM-CMC-MapName, KOTH-CMC-MapName etc.)
For me these sounds more than clear especially those "are a must" strings. For participants misunderstanding these (maybe indeed too poor) descriptions, then I'm sorry for them
To be honest I don't mind this subject that much, I was doing some Chaos related update - I did not see any feed-back positive or negative, so I'm not bother with extra debates - I did all my best to fix my mistake in bumping previous contest - I promise that it won't happen again. Congrats in advance for any Winner. Now I go to study other stuff (I'm waiting a download which is coming too slow, probably I'll drop it into a faster location after getting it). Chaos is not 1st priority of me right now.

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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by OjitroC » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:50 pm

nogardilaref wrote: And fact is, and absolutely no one can really deny this, especially those with English as their main language: the contest rules were unclear, open to interpretation, and lacked the necessary information to properly dictate which maps qualified and which did not.
Not quite sure that's wholly true, old chap - over egging it somewhat I would say.

Not sure either precisely what THE PROBLEM is/was - most participants seem to have been perfectly happy with the contest and clear about was required. Much of the post-contest debate has been about the ultimate destination of the prize rather than the contest itself.

Once again, sektor211 is spot on in his latest post.
sektor2111 wrote: .. To be honest I don't mind this subject that much, I was doing some Chaos related update - I did not see any feed-back positive or negative, so I'm not bother with extra debates
As someone interested in your Chaos update, I would have given feedback but have not had any free time to play UT in recent weeks.

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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by nogardilaref » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:59 am

@makemeunreal: I was referring to these:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12460&start=30#p102109
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12460&start=30#p102126
Not sure what you were on (and maybe still are), but these posts were rather crazy and random, and contributed absolutely nothing at all to the topic at hand, they had the opposite effect as a matter of fact.

@sektor2111 & OjitroC: Allow me then to rephrase and add to the same rules in a different fashion:
1 - Any game type is allowed, both standard (DM, CTF, DOM, or other) or custom (MH, JB, BT, or other).
2 - The contest badge texture, located <here>, MUST be placed somewhere in the map, and it MUST be visible, well lit, easy to locate during normal gameplay, and occupy a surface area of at least 128x128 Unreal Units.
3 - The map MUST have a screenshot defined in its LevelInfo, and it MUST consist of an actual screenshot of the map itself showing at least an entire room or part of a big area, without additional text or any editing whatsoever.
4 - The map MUST have bot support, in other words, when playing as a spectator, with only bots playing and no players whatsoever, they MUST be able to fully transverse the map like a player would, and they MUST be able to fully complete it, in whichever sense that means for the targeted game type (be able to capture the flags in CTF for example).
5 - The map MUST have at least one music file associated and defined in its LevelInfo, even if a completely silent one.
6 - The map filename MUST have the following format: <gametype prefix>-CMC-<map name>.unr (for example: DM-CMC-MyMap.unr).

Any map submitted which does not follow all the rules defined above, will NOT be accepted.
Notice the difference?

<here> would be a "here" text with a link to the actual badge utx files btw.

Anyway, from here, I won't pronounce myself any further on this subject in particular, as what's done is done, and I just really want to get this all over with right now.
If there's a next time, rather than "talk", I will just "do", and do it my own way, and that will be it, this has been the last time I gave the benefit of the doubt concerning the organization of stuff like this by the community, when the community itself wasn't invested enough to make a good contest out of this to begin with.

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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by Red_Fist » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:08 am

I would send the prize to the guy who made

DM-CMC-Lords_Of_TheVoid by XaNcOnII

Final answer :idea2:
Was the best map.
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Re: CMC Contest: Players' choice poll

Post by UnrealGGecko » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:51 am

:wth: here goes nothing...

Firstly, I'd like to say I'm sorry. Every contest I try to organise or help out with the organising, some crap just HAS to happen. I hope next time someone with better understanding on how really a contest runs will run may step up and take charge, because I for sure don't want this to happen again. I took a few days off the forum just to work on the mappack, among other RL things, so sorry for the inactivity. Hope next time we'll get a great one

Now the prize:
Like mentioned, this was the „not really inportant” poll. I guess since we have 2 2nd place winners we can make this as a tie-breaker (so Memsys>ExpEM>Terraniux>makemeunreal>XaNKoNII etc. would be the order). Hope this clears things up.

@makemeunreal
We can't accept your steam account, sorry. If it was a game code, the no problem, but steam accounts are a tricky thing. Due to this section in the Steam Subscriber Agreement:
You may not sell or charge others for the right to use your account, or otherwise transfer your Account, nor may you sell, charge others for the right to use, or transfer any Subscriptions other than if and as expressly permitted by this Agreement....
So most likely if Valve found out they'd ban it straight away.
Also, your recent posts here + the spam with your wip maps is just :barf: sorry to say this but you really acted immature there.

Finally the mappack:
*sigh* I was ready to release it today. But not when the situation is like this. I'm running for work in an hour or so, and the next time I'll be on my PC is either a week or 2 weeks time... Again sorry but I want the mappack to have mostly final versions.
Tell you what. I'll release the mappack in 2 weeks. During those 2 weeks. Please send me the final versions (or as close to final as you can get), and if possible to avoid mismatches, add a -vF at the end of your mapname (like CTF-Hellscape-vF). Is that ok?

Again, sincere apologies if I pissed someone off even more now. The current situation is pretty hard for me, both here and in RL. I just hope it's ok with you all.

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