New mappers class?

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Re: New mappers class?

Post by Swanky »

I remember the days about 15, 17 years back when I first started mapping. I had some experience with sandbox editors from Red Alert and StarCraft, but nothing as complex as Hammer or UEd. So I first started out with one of those basic how to make a room, light it in pink light and add some apples. Wasn't until my 3rd or 4th map that I abused my parents' 56k modem and uploaded it. Wasn't good, obviously (and also lost in time). It was only when I kept insisting on uploading 2 or so more maps that showed some promise when the user _unreal_ pointed me toward some of DavidM's tutorials (unfortunatly - also lost in time) on level design philosophy and how to make an atmospheric scene using the editor. Fast forward a few more maps I tried getting into the ImperialOne Mappack. Didn't work out but I learned a ton of stuff with the map DM-Ajanta while also getting a lot of helpful feedback along the way.
The thing is - it's always a bit of both. Challenge yourself and get challenged by others. Sometimes a "this looks shit" is more worth than "this looks good" because it sometimes manages to stimulate more. But for starters a few pointers in the right direction are always nice. Maybe not so much technical bits like Hourences' tutorials still available but more like tutorials on design philosophy and how to work with those in a given environment. Not that I had the time to do so, unfortunatly. Just don't take it serious and let yourself be pushed out of what you like to do. Keep doing it until someone hands you that little golden key - just bring a lot of patience. As has been said, learning the ropes and finding your own style can take years.
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Re: New mappers class?

Post by Terraniux »

I red trough all posts again, then went to your first post again.

So far, all we did is discuss, discuss, argue, and discuss, and argue again. crisscross. up and down. This is good! :agree1: !!!

But this topic rests on a simple question, regarding a certain problem:
It will do the community a lot of good if there's a better obvious support system in place for guys who are trying to get their Ued training wheels off. Let them know that they can ask stupid questions and not be made fun of (...ok, maybe a little). Whatever it takes to improve the average level of the posted map projects that have been getting shared. I'm not shitting on new work, I'm instead saying we could help with making it way better.
There needs to be a support system that a new mapper can enter into and be comfortable in asking questions and getting guidance. I think it would be great if someone took the lead on this and asked to be the go-to guy for mapper questions.
What to do about this?!

So let me be the first, to say.

I may have a plan and a possible solution for this, Jack. :thuup:
I'll present it as soon as I can. :!:
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Re: New mappers class?

Post by Chamberly »

We might also need to provide guidance for those who want to make any tutorial too, just to make sure everything goes crystal clear and not leave a dirty mess misusing unreal editor - including on accident. :wink: :!:
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Re: New mappers class?

Post by sektor2111 »

Some important thing about "brushing spree" would be explaining what "align at grid" may means.
Saying these because I could see maps done from simple cubes but ugly miss-aligned. A kid having 4 years old is able to put a wooden cube on a grid paper. I'm expecting more from mature people if a kid has this native wrapping feeling.
Explain that you have to remove grid-align when you want to FIX A DAMAGED BRUSH not as default build method. Because yes, removing alignment is a debugger problem not a mapping option. So to speak novice mappers are not debuggers from any kind.
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Re: New mappers class?

Post by Pandemonium »

Yeah, I remember those often quoted DavidM-tutorials quite well, some very basic but important tips for UE1.

Someone should remake them. But on the other hand.. how many new UE1 mappers are out there today?
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Re: New mappers class?

Post by makemeunreal »

There is about 6 or 7 I taught myself.
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Re: New mappers class?

Post by sektor2111 »

Pandemonium wrote:Someone should remake them. But on the other hand.. how many new UE1 mappers are out there today?
Look at several contests mapping from last time, and see people with links in their signature. That simple.
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Re: New mappers class?

Post by Jake19 »

nogardilaref wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:21 pm Well, honestly, I don't think that there's a need for there to be this split.
Not only you don't see this kind of separation anywhere (even in places like DeviantArt), it presumes a newbie mapper to be worse than a veteran one.

As a software developer myself, I have also my own team of developers, and they are mostly seniors by now, and I do prefer seniors for obvious reasons.
But I already had seniors which were so laughably incompetent at the job, that I would rather have a junior do it.
On the other hand, I had juniors who had zero knowledge about the programming language we used and our practices, yet in the span of just a month was writing code with the quality expected from a senior, which was awesome.

It all goes down to competence and humbleness.
No matter how good you think you are, there's always someone a lot better than you. Always.

Therefore, a new map from a newbie could be the expected "garbage" of the kind we all did once upon a time when we were newbies ourselves, or could be a true form of art into itself, or at least have a very interesting concept, you never know.
But the crucial part of all of this is how willing is the author of such work to be honestly criticized by others.
If they accept the criticism they're given (and note that accepting != agreeing), and work towards improving oneself, whether or not they're "juniors" or "seniors", people will feel attracted in helping you out and watch you grow.

So it doesn't really matter if someone is new or not, just post the work and do not be afraid of bad criticism, learn and grow with it instead, because the rest of the world isn't much nicer than this either, so you better start getting used to it.
True honest criticism, highlighting both the good and bad parts of any work is still the best compliment one can receive, since for such a criticism to be formed, that person had to look closely into that work, had to give some of his/her attention to what you did.
Of course, some will still be harsh and highlighting only the bad things in the most crass way possible, but because they're harsh with everyone since they have quite an ego and sense of elite themselves, but that's about it.

Now if a newbie comes thinking we ought him/her attention from the start, only because "UT lacks mappers", oh boy, be prepared to get more than criticism, and that kind of attitude acts like a shield for incoming information about how to improve oneself, so that person will never improve anyway and we're all better off without them.

Having that said, folks like Jake19 started with the wrong foot, so if he's willing to start over and reflect on this, and put his own ego aside, I think most of us (me included) are more than willing to keep providing honest feedback and how he can improve things, so he can even be more proud of himself of achieving higher heights.
It's completely up to him, and any newcomer which comes along. :)
Honestly, if you already know that i am a beginner of map making, then you don't create this fucking post, because you know that you piss me off with this, you fucking retard
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Re: New mappers class?

Post by Hellkeeper »

Mapping classes? There's a first step here. Anyone could make new threads and make more.

If people have questions, they can always ask here. When questions are purely mapping-related, I try to answer.
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Re: New mappers class?

Post by papercoffee »

Jake19 wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:49 pm Honestly, if you already know that i am a beginner of map making, then you don't create this fucking post, because you know that you piss me off with this, you fucking retard
The last post was from Dec 18, 2017 and nogardilaref's post wasn't aimed at you, but was meant generally.
If you start to make a ruckus again like in your first thread ... I'll recommend you to leave and take your attitude with you.

Hellkeeper's thread is a good start for all new mapper.