question about weapons mutator

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question about weapons mutator

Postby darksonny » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:27 am

Hi all boys/girls

Anybody knows about any sort of weapon mutator that allow having weapons, magazines of the weapons (flak, rl, etc...) and /or items (healing packages) to be included in a map that initially and by default does not have any of this things (maps used to play as instagib for ctf, or to be played as lms for dm/dom?

Thanks!
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby OjitroC » Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:48 pm

You could try MrLoathsome's SwarmSpawn - see viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11485&start=0&hilit=swarmspawn
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby darksonny » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:19 pm

hi Ojitroc
I've read all 8 pages of that thread and Im still not very sure how to manage this thingy to putt weapons and items all over the map that does not have anything but the map itself, could you give some idea about how to manage this mut into ut, please? thanks!
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby OjitroC » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:48 pm

First thing is you need the exact class name of all the items you want to spawn. So fire up UEd or UTPT and open up the package containing the items - it looks like you want default UT items so open Botpack.u and make a note of all the items you want to spawn. I would do this in a text file as you can then copy and paste into the SwarmSpawn.ini.

Next open up the SwarmSpawn.ini and add the items, one to a line like this
Spoiler: show
[SwarmSpawn.SS]
CheckRate=2.00
bDebugMode=True
SwarmInfo[0]=(SwarmClass="Botpack.ripper",Qty=1,bSpawnOnce="True")
SwarmInfo[1]=(SwarmClass="Botpack.PulseGun",Qty=2,bSpawnOnce="True")
SwarmInfo[2]=(SwarmClass="CS_v16_2.M249",Qty=2,bSpawnOnce="True")
SwarmInfo[3]=(SwarmClass="SiN2UT.TrueChainGun",Qty=2,bSpawnOnce="True")
SwarmInfo[4]=(SwarmClass="q3weaps.plasmagun",Qty=2,bSpawnOnce="True")

I tested this .ini in two maps without weapons (CTF-Bert[GU] and CTF-Klondike) and all the weapons spawned OK. I've just added weapon class names at random from one of my StuffSwapper.ini as an example.

You can add what you want (the limit on the number of lines is pretty high - 64 in the version I use but the later version is much higher) - set the quantity of each item to be spawned to whatever you want. Make sure bSpawnOnce = True. You don't need to worry about the other variables, unless you want to alter projectiles, etc. Make sure there are no typos or spaces and also that the quotes and brackets are in the right place.

Make sure bDebugMode is set to True, as you can then check the log for any problems with items spawning. The CheckRate here is low but you can set it to whatever you want.

That's it really - just save the .ini and add the SwarmSpawn mutator to your mutator list. Just to note, the weapons/items can spawn anywhere in the map and there may, perhaps, be some maps where stuff won't spawn.

An idea - if you want to start players off with more than one weapon, you could use StuffSwapper together with SwarmSpawn.
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby darksonny » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:36 pm

Thanks for the explanation Ojitroc, let me try with your info and try it with utpt and If I get amny doubt aobut this mut I will let you know :tu:
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby ItsYaBoiLoque » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:54 am

I don't know about SwarmSpawn but there's UnrealEd, edit the map and place the pickups in the map.
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:35 am

Invalid argumentation
Editing map doesn't do any Random Load as SwarmSpawn does, it's only a new map-file which usually has no fixes if it do includes flaws. Beside this, in a server with 300+ maps will need editing all those 300 maps - Good Luck with that. There are mappers which don't like to see their maps crapped up by some dumb idea, in others by doing adds things might go out of logic or ruining map's purpose, to summarize a sudden Editing Addiction is not an answer.
A mutator, like man has asked, has way more benefits than creating another static stuff for no purpose and spending ages in Editor.
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby darksonny » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:10 am

As sektor said ,I prefer not to change anything against author (unless If you did not success fo contacting him via email, because his email is not active or missing, you will see...) and ask for a mutator that may put weapons over all the map and their items. This weekend I will test Ojitroc suggestions now im a bit busy with family and work in realife.

Sektor, as Ojitroc said, what if one specific map from many of them, does not work when another could work? What could I do? I was thinking in lms but this way is not like default set for all maps when published for public, I think this kind of maps were made only for arena or using instagib mut.
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:04 pm

In maps which are empty (excuse my rant but for me those are not maps) I prefer to setup some patching if geometry is OK. If is an empty trash without paths and without a good geometry I step over "author" and I fix it. If he/she goes balistic, I'll start pointing him/her tutorials and stop bullshitting about "mapper" feelings because they don't have such features. If map supports patching, in 2018 this is a good solution. Result: Player will never download new maps from a server, new admins won't get confused about multiple versions of a non-fixed map.

For really empty maps we do need loaders type mutators giving weaponry directly to Pawns entering the game - ANY Player, as for map load, this will need PATHS as guidance for deploying items, this task not possible without new C++ stuff as long as UScript cannot map paths in empty areas and does not have "eyes" for figuring how to do them - see what does Editor in pathing task - a full mess.

As a note:
not speaking about a mapping contest, I think a DM/CTF/DOM/etc. map can be done in a "morphing-type" mapping containing an INI. Map is doable simple/empty having only Nodes. In INI we can set some Items and an Actor from map will operate a task: checking InventorySpot actors and attaching random items from ini list to these spots in a desired time, somehow like Chaos does but using other items and/or combined with default stuff... and not doing changes all time. When I'm talking about such a random map I don't forget BOT - anyone has the right to play map At Home or ON-Line, no discrimination. This way will deliver a random action, items won't be the same all time and... might be compatible with future weapons... being a dynamic map letting Engine to setup Level for us.

Another mutator idea:
Spawning random items in map using paths guidance. If map has NONE paths, using player as guidance, spawning from time to time items behind player taking in account some distances. Let's say that player is dropping invisible "seeds" and they will deploy random items. Who wants to put this idea in practice ?
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby papercoffee » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:34 pm

sektor2111 wrote:Another mutator idea:
Spawning random items in map using paths guidance. If map has NONE paths, using player as guidance, spawning from time to time items behind player taking in account some distances. Let's say that player is dropping invisible "seeds" and they will deploy random items. Who wants to put this idea in practice ?

I would like this. :tu:
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby OjitroC » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:18 pm

sektor2111 wrote: For really empty maps we do need loaders type mutators giving weaponry directly to Pawns entering the game ...

Just to note that StuffSwapper can be used to do this - by putting the desired weapons in the StartUp section. One of my StuffSwapper configurations consists solely of weapons in the StartUp section and I use this in maps with no weapons.

I do agree with papercoffee that your ideas for a mutator spawning random items and for using an ini are good and worth pursuing.

darksonny wrote: ... what if one specific map from many of them, does not work when another could work? What could I do?

I don't think you need to worry much about this as it is likely to be a rare occurence. I've only come across it when testing a couple of maps made for UT Mods - normal UT maps are likely to work just fine.
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby Feralidragon » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:36 pm

sektor2111 wrote:Another mutator idea:
Spawning random items in map using paths guidance. If map has NONE paths, using player as guidance, spawning from time to time items behind player taking in account some distances. Let's say that player is dropping invisible "seeds" and they will deploy random items. Who wants to put this idea in practice ?

I also had a similar idea a while back.
Not only using the player as a guidance, but anything else that could be used (lights, keypoints, some BSP tracing to understand the map), but on top of that all, also save to a file in the end so the next time the same map is loaded, it no longer needs to do all that tracking anymore, or could apply the previous one and just optimize it over time, in a machine-learning-ish kind of way (not necessarily so, but close).
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby sektor2111 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:40 pm

Feralidragon wrote:in a machine-learning-ish kind of way (not necessarily so, but close).
And saving this "knowledge" somewhere to slow down servers with 1276 maps rather than taking the right decisions and RANDOMIZED properly based on player skill ?
That's why I said that for me is a difficult task and I need some Coop-Work for such stuff.

However... Last time I see less and less players in servers... heading to the question: Is it worth the effort ?
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby Feralidragon » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:13 pm

Most ways of building code are actually extremely fast as long as you don't do it naively: algorithms.
Therefore, unless you save these files in a very straightforward naive way without consideration on the slowdown of saving a file to begin with, of course it will be slow, otherwise if you do it right with a decent strategy, it makes no difference on how many maps you have in the server, it will always be fast.

If anything, the server will actually slow down if you have enough logic in your code into trying to figure out the entire map from absolute zero every single time, hence is much better to have an already processed knowledge base for that specific map to begin with, as it saves the code from a lot of the same unnecessary processing to reach the exact same conclusions.
These files are essentially a cache, and the purpose of a cache is exactly to speed up performance into avoiding to process the same things for the same result.

The machine-learn-ish kind of processing on top of this would be the process of adding some minor bits of extra information to the existing cache, such as when a player is able to perfectly reach an area which was otherwise "unknown", even in previous plays.

Wanting to have a randomized experience based on skill level doesn't have anything to do with this, that would be only logic to apply on top of what you know about the map itself.
In other words, you're now talking about a completely different thing altogether, which has no barring in whether or not you save a file with what your code learned about the map.
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Re: question about weapons mutator

Postby sektor2111 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:41 pm

My point is toward which items spawn where and never in the same way....
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