Game lagging in any server without connection problems

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Re: Game lagging in any server without connection problems

Postby PrinceOfFunky » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:30 pm

Hitman wrote:I had this issue some years ago to, was going crazy, turned out it was a bad trojan that snuck in, once removed all went back to normal..just a tip

Oh no :< Do you remember any detail about that trojan, like the name?

EDIT: bNoInventory in the LavaZone! That's the problem, for some reason the game believes you are inside that zone (even if Region.Zone doesn't agree).
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Re: Game lagging in any server without connection problems

Postby JackGriffin » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:32 pm

That's not the problem. Here, open this map:
CTF-TestLava.unr
(11.97 KiB) Downloaded 12 times

This is two room separated by a simple zone portal. Lava zone identical to yours is in the other room. The result? No weapon loss. You can even directly swap your lava zone into it and see it still won't have the effect.

Once you scale a brush and build the map it fucks everything up. You have to start fresh, you can't even have the old map open and rebuild parts of it. I'll bet you can reproduce the error by importing your map into this and rebuilding the whole thing.

Pitchfork mob stands ready. Let me know when I can send them over :ironic: I kid you Funky, this is how we all get better. I know this sucks to find out. I hate it too since scaling brushes is such an easy way to fit things. You just can't use it with subtractive geometry because it destroys the BSP calculations.

EDIT: I tested and it did exactly what I thought: When you copy my map over into yours my new area behaves like yours does. Inventory is deleted. The lava zone is leaking out all over the map because the BSP tree is corrupt.
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Re: Game lagging in any server without connection problems

Postby PrinceOfFunky » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:38 pm

JackGriffin wrote:That's not the problem. Here, open this map:
CTF-TestLava.unr

This is two room separated by a simple zone portal. Lava zone identical to yours is in the other room. The result? No weapon loss. You can even directly swap your lava zone into it and see it still won't have the effect.

Once you scale a brush and build the map it fucks everything up. You have to start fresh, you can't even have the old map open and rebuild parts of it. I'll bet you can reproduce the error by importing your map into this and rebuilding the whole thing.

Pitchfork mob stands ready. Let me know when I can send them over :ironic: I kid you Funky, this is how we all get better. I know this sucks to find out. I hate it too since scaling brushes is such an easy way to fit things. You just can't use it with subtractive geometry because it destroys the BSP calculations.

EDIT: I tested and it did exactly what I thought: When you copy my map over into yours my new area behaves like yours does. Inventory is deleted. The lava zone is leaking out all over the map because the BSP tree is corrupt.

Yeah I knew it already but I always preferred to scale brushes and find workarounds which yes, led to some maps having kill zones, but with how many maps compared to the amount of maps I've made? I swear I can't even imagine to build an entire map checking the size numbers for every single brush. Also there's always math behind every scaled brush, they'll always be aligned to grid no matter what.
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Re: Game lagging in any server without connection problems

Postby JackGriffin » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:55 pm

PrinceOfFunky wrote:Also there's always math behind every scaled brush, they'll always be aligned to grid no matter what.

I think you are mixing a couple of conceptual ideas. Yes, there's math behind the brush but a scaled brush can easily get into ten-thousandths math. There's no grid when you are dealing with that level of precision. That's why it's important that the entire map follows a relative baseline. It ensures that all calculations are relative to each other. If a subtractive brush has scaling then where is that exact boundary line and vertex at? Does the brush that's up against it have exact parallel? If it's off by even a tiny margin and you are subtracting again then you have over/underlap and neither one is good news. That's why I urge people to just never use it. Nothing good is going to happen.

About measuring...IIRC isn't there an editor 'ruler' mod? I swear I remember seeing one. EDIT: https://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2 ... 262425/0#0
"You damn kids, back in my time we made the items, maps and games ourselves with an unwieldy engine using counter-intuitive crash-prone tools and we liked it so much we built communities around this which nowadays look like cults because they're quasi-parallel societies based on the same old games." -Hellkeeper
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Re: Game lagging in any server without connection problems

Postby PrinceOfFunky » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:45 pm

JackGriffin wrote:
PrinceOfFunky wrote:Also there's always math behind every scaled brush, they'll always be aligned to grid no matter what.

I think you are mixing a couple of conceptual ideas. Yes, there's math behind the brush but a scaled brush can easily get into ten-thousandths math. There's no grid when you are dealing with that level of precision. That's why it's important that the entire map follows a relative baseline. It ensures that all calculations are relative to each other. If a subtractive brush has scaling then where is that exact boundary line and vertex at? Does the brush that's up against it have exact parallel? If it's off by even a tiny margin and you are subtracting again then you have over/underlap and neither one is good news. That's why I urge people to just never use it. Nothing good is going to happen.

About measuring...IIRC isn't there an editor 'ruler' mod? I swear I remember seeing one. EDIT: https://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2 ... 262425/0#0

Well what you're saying happens only if you click on Toggle Drag Grid, but if you don't there will always be a grid which will be proportional to the number you choose in the Drag Grid Size list input.
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Re: Game lagging in any server without connection problems

Postby JackGriffin » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:08 am

I see where you think that you are correct. Multiplying out the values seems to keep you on the grid. You'd have to ask someone like Wormbo or Smirf the actual 'why' part but when the engine computes BSP and the level brushes have scaling applied to them it's been my experience that things go wonky fast (as I've shown).

I'm right there with you in that it shouldn't be this way...But it just is. Yet another thing to add to the It-Don't-Make-Sense editor pile.
post-scaling.jpg
post-scaling.jpg (113.24 KiB) Viewed 135 times
"You damn kids, back in my time we made the items, maps and games ourselves with an unwieldy engine using counter-intuitive crash-prone tools and we liked it so much we built communities around this which nowadays look like cults because they're quasi-parallel societies based on the same old games." -Hellkeeper
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Re: Game lagging in any server without connection problems

Postby PrinceOfFunky » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:48 am

JackGriffin wrote:I'm right there with you in that it shouldn't be this way...But it just is. Yet another thing to add to the It-Don't-Make-Sense editor pile.

If this editor had any sense... :D

Also
$carface wrote:Graphics is where I'd look, particularly where you are running a switchable setup. I suspect it's going from Intel to nVidia and switching back and forth, constantly.

From NVIDIA Control Panel:
3D Settings-> Manage 3D settings
The Tab "Preferred graphics processor ", select
High performance NVidia processor

Try again after you've done that. Let us know how you get on.

Also, post which, game render device you are using.

UnrealTournament > System > UnrealTournament.ini
GameRenderDevice=
RenderDevice=

The problem still persists, at least while using d3d10, I'll try using d3d9 but that's still strange that drd10 and opengl have the same issue.
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