DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

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Iacobus
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DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by Iacobus » Mon May 27, 2019 1:49 am

So this was supposed to be my first attempt at a MH map, but right after the first room I realized its potential for deathmatch. It started as a generic looking castle, but after I added the monk statues and worked the cliff area it began to give me a "Name of the Rose" kinda vibe, so I'll be theming it to be an old monastery. It's a mediun sized map, very open and interconnected, with only a few places to hide to allow for duels to be more dynamic and has support for 8 players at once. It's going to look a bit dark and samey right now and pathing, although functional, was done just for playtesting

Here's my to do list and I'd highly appreciate any feedback on these, specially the layout.



Geometry
- Redo skybox, remove unnecessary brushes, refine unpolished areas, define and apply a consistent pattern.

Lighting
- Add light to all unlit areas, tweak coronas, refine fire light radiation and tweak the moonlight.

Pathing
- Improve ammo placement throughout the map, study more thoughtfully bot behavior.

Others
- Create a texturepack of higher quality, add footsteps and ambient sounds, create/add more decorations, redo lifts.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Update 1_4: This version addresses many of the issues pointed out here regarding lighting and pathing and has some changes in the layout and item placement. It's being uploaded specifically for testing the gameplay and pathing. I appreciate all the suggestions regarding visuals and I'll be working on it now to improve navigation and aesthetics.

Update 1_9:
Map is now zoned;
Pathing tweaked and improved;
Floor texture changed temporarily to a less noisy one and with better contrast against the brick walls;
Geometry in the main entrance refined and teleporter added, conecting it to the center of the map;
DM-BrokenFaith][Beta1_9][.rar
Probably the final beta before final release
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Shot0112_1.jpg
Shot0012_1.jpg
Last edited by Iacobus on Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by The_Cowboy » Mon May 27, 2019 2:40 am

Consider this music for the map.

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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by Swanky » Mon May 27, 2019 8:45 am

Interesting. A new map with a lot of z-axis and an author who wants serious feedback? Betatest coming right up (sort of)...

Welp. Haven't got the time to do a more indepth bot test at this point (maybe next weekend or so, hit me up if you're interested in that and I'll see what I can do), but for first impressions, I really, really like the map's layout. It's got multiple levels, z-axis and interconnectivity seems good, too. Don't see many more possibilities without having the map have a stuffed out kind of feel to it. Also wouldn't add any more rooms to it. General feel and size of the map feel good, just need a few more landmarks for general orientation (which is probably my main gripe with the map right now).

Aaanyway, here's a small list of annotations, thoughts and suggestions:
Gameplay stuff
- reverse Shock Rifle with nearby ammo
- place 2 healtpacks beneath ripper?
- reduce vial count overall, add in a few more healthpacks (the map has exactly 20 vials but only 4 medboxes right now)
- reduce sniper ammo a bit and mix various ammo packs around the map (like 1 rocket, sniper and pulse ammo together instead of 2 flaks for example, except for near their weapons)
- 4 vials at brush642 feel kinda worthless for the detour (new place for thighs/armor, replace armor with superhealth/redeemer?)
- place flak & ammo directly in the yard maybe?
- from my experience with DM-Maris, block off the upper areas like brush939 (note: blockplayers with bBlockPlayers and bCollidePlayers true works good if you set the height and radius but won't block projectiles; check CTF-XC-Peak17 if you need an example)
- the dead end in the flak yard could be used as a teleporter position IF you need more connectivity

Other observations
- lighting overall could be a tad brighter. The dark and especially noisy textures in general make it a little harder to see and react to enemies.
- new textures are missing detailtextures
- a lot of alcoves need some more texture alignment (like brush866, 865, 755, 221 and 901 for example)
- dark floor texture isn't aligned
- the big rock outside isn't properly aligned (rotated the brush, align to floor and rotate back to original position; outdoors alginment sucks :D )
- the greenish tile texture is a bit distracting in my opinion, you may keep it but I would give it a more brownish hue so it's in line with the rest of the textures
- don't unlit the skybox -> you can use light and special lights for the clouds, then keep it fade to black so the edges aren't visible anymore
- set all torches to not have light and use regular lights instead. It gives you a lot more control over lighting in general
- not sure why but all your flares cut out after moving a bit away from them. Not sure it's intended or not :)

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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by SzGergo » Mon May 27, 2019 3:42 pm

the layout is pretty complex and confusing.
- if the lighting were a bit less monothonic, it would help a lot in learning and navigating
- there are some places where textures are meking the architecture implausible. Typically ceiling areas, like when a horizontal stone floor slab texture directly meets a vertical brickwall texture at a positive edge... (imho, in the non-vaulted areas maybe some wooden structure would make up a better flat ceiling...)
- i'd consider making more openings, to make the building feel more realistic, where people could see the skybox more.
- (maybe it is just my taste) but some more dramatic lighting could be nicer here and there, sharp shadows. If i was woeking on it, i think i would add a huge-ass full moon in the skybox that would cast som eerie shadows thro windows etc. (Also, such a specific object in a certain direction of the skybox can help quick navigation in game)
- maybe in the bigger, quasy-simmetric rooms some huge specific feature could do some good trick helping the players know where they are, like idk, a huge three story tall "nazi-banner" style drape hanging, or one of the walls having a distinctively different texturing. I mean any distinctive visual cue that reassures the player when they see it it that they are indeed in the certain location orinted into a certain direction. (the two monk statue also work like this, but visually they don't cover too much place)
- elevator shafts are a bit blank. Some feature would be nice that also might tell us what actually make those thin movers go up, for currently i cannot decide what to believe: is there some machine, as the elevator sound would suggest, or is it some sort of magic/quantum levitationt bs, as the appearende suggests
- skybox: the "ctflavagiantish" gigantic wavy surface in the skybox is not really nice. My method for this is placing a totally featurless blank texture in the skybox that will represent the endless body of water stretching up to the horizont, and putting a translucent water texture in the arena, and i avoid illuminating the edges, so that way it will blend into the skybox totally seamlessly and naturally.

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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by The_Cowboy » Mon May 27, 2019 4:16 pm

SzGergo wrote:=
If i was woeking on it, i think i would add a huge-ass full moon in the skybox that would cast som eerie shadows thro windows etc. (Also, such a specific object in a certain direction of the skybox can help quick navigation in game)
-
Ok that is adding insult to injury especially with the unreal engine limit of 256*256 against the high-resolution texture (which I am assuming should be atleast 1024*1024) just like Cedric 'Inoxx' Fiorentino did in CTF-Face
So I had to split the texture in 4 small 256*256 textures, which give a final result of 512*512. This is annoying to do because the bilinear filtering is blending the edges together. In the end the line between the different polygons is almost completely hidden but it's a painful process, I'm glad I didn't have to do this too much.
I mean for really casting shadows, it would make sense to add the (dynamic?) source only if engine were to support Ray Tracing and, for that, you'd have to work with the fourth installment of the Engine. With that information, I will say, for the record, that I am not a mapper, but a big fan of the work you people do (have done).

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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by SzGergo » Mon May 27, 2019 8:04 pm

The_Cowboy wrote:
SzGergo wrote:=
If i was woeking on it, i think i would add a huge-ass full moon in the skybox that would cast som eerie shadows thro windows etc. (Also, such a specific object in a certain direction of the skybox can help quick navigation in game)
-
Ok that is adding insult to injury especially with the unreal engine limit of 256*256 against the high-resolution texture (which I am assuming should be atleast 1024*1024) just like Cedric 'Inoxx' Fiorentino did in CTF-Face
So I had to split the texture in 4 small 256*256 textures, which give a final result of 512*512. This is annoying to do because the bilinear filtering is blending the edges together. In the end the line between the different polygons is almost completely hidden but it's a painful process, I'm glad I didn't have to do this too much.
I mean for really casting shadows, it would make sense to add the (dynamic?) source only if engine were to support Ray Tracing and, for that, you'd have to work with the fourth installment of the Engine. With that information, I will say, for the record, that I am not a mapper, but a big fan of the work you people do (have done).
i think it is more of just simply catching some consitent aesthetics.

Btw, you can circumwent the seams caused by the bilinear blending if you edit the textures yourself (for example i create a 254x254x254 skybox, render my six skybox images the size of 254x254, duplicat the edge rows and columns in gimp/PS making them 256x256, then applied them to the faces of said 254uu cube, and panned them to the center, so the 1pixel wide edges get cropped out...)

This can also make sense for a truly gargantuan celestial body in the skybox like the planet in DM-Morpheus or in CTF-Face, for those really take up a big part of the view and the resoultion difference would be too big therwise (and it just gets worse when you look at it thru the scope of the sniper riffle, which is pretty much a default activity on ctf-face),
...but i would not bother doing this for a smaller celestial body, like a simple big full moon.
Besides, some added effects like a bigger extra sheet of translucent moon-halo and some bright lighting that creates big contrast can even exaggarate the visual significance of it.

As for the shadows, as this example is mostly an indoor map with not so large spaces, distant light can be mimicked nicely.
In such a case noone really cares wether the light is truly collimated (which it isn't, for it is not supported, as you said) or it's just a single point-like source simply placed some thousands uu away.

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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by sektor2111 » Mon May 27, 2019 8:19 pm

I like the layout, but exist some small... heck I could see this in other maps as well... CHAINS here in D3D9:
[attachment=1]BF_chains00.PNG[/attachment]

I think are better like here:
[attachment=0]BF_chains01.PNG[/attachment]

And:
- some ammo actors might be a bit upper located - allow me some CHAOS-ification gaming;
- a PathNode from one of those ramps is creating a Loop like in CTF-Command (not sure if others have similar problems) - perhaps it's even useless as long as those ramps are... SHORT - I recommend them lowered with 10 UU;
- Doors/Buttons can be Lifts - not a big problem here but still Bot has too much power over them in this case.
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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by The_Cowboy » Mon May 27, 2019 11:27 pm

SzGergo wrote: Btw, you can circumwent the seams caused by the bilinear blending if you edit the textures yourself (for example i create a 254x254x254 skybox, render my six skybox images the size of 254x254, duplicat the edge rows and columns in gimp/PS making them 256x256, then applied them to the faces of said 254uu cube, and panned them to the center, so the 1pixel wide edges get cropped out...)
Now that is something new I didn't know because I thought resolutions with powers of 2 are supported (https://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:Creating_Textures). But anyways are you able to achieve higher resolutions?
SzGergo wrote: This can also make sense for a truly gargantuan celestial body in t
...but i would not bother doing this for a smaller celestial body, like a simple big full moon.
When you said "huge-ass full moon" I had another impression! But now it is clear.
SzGergo wrote: As for the shadows, as this example is mostly an indoor map with not so large spaces, distant light can be mimicked nicely.
In such a case noone really cares wether the light is truly collimated (which it isn't, for it is not supported, as you said) or it's just a single point-like source simply placed some thousands uu away.
As I said if the source is dynamic (like in CTF-Face where the asteroid is performing spin revolutions, less the vertigo) you will need Ray Tracing technology even for indoors (if you are pedantic that is).
Last edited by The_Cowboy on Mon May 27, 2019 11:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by Iacobus » Mon May 27, 2019 11:33 pm

Damn! Thanks for all the feedback and sorry for the delay, had an unnexpected visit that messed up all my day. I hate merging replies like that but I don't want to leave anything unanswered and I'll be taking notes of everything :tu:
The_Cowboy wrote:Consider this music for the map.
Really nice atmospheric song but I'm looking for something just a little more upbeat to match the dynamic of the map. I still want to make that MH map using the assets I'm creating for this one and then i might use this song. Thanks!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Swanky wrote:Interesting. A new map with a lot of z-axis and an author who wants serious feedback? Betatest coming right up (sort of)...

Welp. Haven't got the time to do a more indepth bot test at this point (maybe next weekend or so, hit me up if you're interested in that and I'll see what I can do), but for first impressions, I really, really like the map's layout. It's got multiple levels, z-axis and interconnectivity seems good, too. Don't see many more possibilities without having the map have a stuffed out kind of feel to it. Also wouldn't add any more rooms to it.
General feel and size of the map feel good, just need a few more landmarks for general orientation (which is probably my main gripe with the map right now).
Whoa, thanks! It's really hard to get some more indepth feedback, it's always welcome. My main concern for the moment is the layout (things that might fit my playstyle but not work for others in a broad sense) so I'm glad you liked it.
I got to a point where I was just decorating flat walls and adding nothing more to it and I was craving for some feedback to commit to the layout before start doing some polishing. Only thing I'm heavily inclined to add is a mid-height pathway from the lift exit by the rocket launcher to the outside


Swanky wrote:reverse Shock Rifle with nearby ammo
That does indeed look like a good place for a weapon but it would be too close (it already is, but not in sight) to the sniper rifle and I really liked the spot for the sniper rifle. I'll need some convincing to make that change.
Also, I was having trouble with bots getting stuck on the ledge there and bringing the ammo out (also the medpacks in the other room) helped with that.
Swanky wrote:-place 2 healtpacks beneath ripper?
Swanky wrote:-4 vials at brush642 feel kinda worthless for the detour (new place for thighs/armor, replace armor with superhealth/redeemer?)
Swanky wrote:-reduce vial count overall, add in a few more healthpacks (the map has exactly 20 vials but only 4 medboxes right now)
-Good call. I'll bring those medpacks already in the room to there, it's a better spot for it.
-I'll bring the thighpads from the upper floor down there and either remove or rearrange the vials (that's exactly the type of feedback I was hoping for, so thanks!)
-I'm always stingy with health and armour pickups, I think it adds tension and helps with the overall flow. A lot of maps I play, including the original ones, I usually just casually
run by available medpacks and I tend to stick around areas were health/armour is easily pickable. I added vials to all places I felt they'd fit, but not all of them will make the cut.
I still have to do a total count of ammo/health to proper balance it and I'd really like to hear your insights on that once I get to it.
Swanky wrote:-place flak & ammo directly in the yard maybe?
Swanky wrote:-the dead end in the flak yard could be used as a teleporter position IF you need more connectivity
Swanky wrote:- the big rock outside isn't properly aligned
Swanky wrote:-block off the upper areas like brush939
- I had the Flak originally there beside the 2 boxes but it felt too far and out of place, specially after I moved the Pulse gun to the center of the map (it was originally inside, to the right of the entance)
- Yes! My intention for that area is to have a broken bridge with a teleporter at the end, but I still need to work out the skybox to have anything sticking out there and commit to the layout before I start doing any
heavy vertex editing. Also, bots tend to bug out with teleporters if not done properly done so I'm leaving it for when I'm bugfixing the pathing aswell.
- I'll still be adding an extra floor for decoration (the area with the Rocket Launcher feels too "short looking") and connect the skyview areas so I didn't bother to properly seal the unreacheable areas yet

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SzGergo wrote:the layout is pretty complex and confusing.
- if the lighting were a bit less monothonic, it would help a lot in learning and navigating
- there are some places where textures are meking the architecture implausible. Typically ceiling areas, like when a horizontal stone floor slab texture directly meets a vertical brickwall texture at a positive edge... (imho, in the non-vaulted areas maybe some wooden structure would make up a better flat ceiling...)
- i'd consider making more openings, to make the building feel more realistic, where people could see the skybox more.
- (maybe it is just my taste) but some more dramatic lighting could be nicer here and there, sharp shadows. If i was woeking on it, i think i would add a huge-ass full moon in the skybox that would cast som eerie shadows thro windows etc. (Also, such a specific object in a certain direction of the skybox can help quick navigation in game)
- maybe in the bigger, quasy-simmetric rooms some huge specific feature could do some good trick helping the players know where they are, like idk, a huge three story tall "nazi-banner" style drape hanging, or one of the walls having a distinctively different texturing. I mean any distinctive visual cue that reassures the player when they see it it that they are indeed in the certain location orinted into a certain direction. (the two monk statue also work like this, but visually they don't cover too much place)
- elevator shafts are a bit blank. Some feature would be nice that also might tell us what actually make those thin movers go up, for currently i cannot decide what to believe: is there some machine, as the elevator sound would suggest, or is it some sort of magic/quantum levitationt bs, as the appearende suggests
- skybox: the "ctflavagiantish" gigantic wavy surface in the skybox is not really nice. My method for this is placing a totally featurless blank texture in the skybox that will represent the endless body of water stretching up to the horizont, and putting a translucent water texture in the arena, and i avoid illuminating the edges, so that way it will blend into the skybox totally seamlessly and naturally.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll be focusing on what I'm working on right now but I'll keep in mind all suggestions when i'm working on decorations, lighting, etc.

- Yeah, I wanted the layout to be a bit more intricated than usual, but it got nothing on say Turbine, Tempest or even Curse in terms of complexity, I think it's a rather simple one once you get the hang of it and proper lighting/texturing/decos will indeed help a lot with navigation and layout memorization.
- I need to tone down the torches and add more lanterns with different settings. I'll ajust the lighting after I have the texturing and detailing done, so i can have, for instance, wooden supports with larterns hanging from and things like that.
- As for the lifts, I want visible moving chains on the wall hooked onto some sort of gears and have some more wooden details around it and have everything properly lit. i'll get to that when I'm done with the geometry.
- I'm avoiding creating more corridors or expanding the map with new rooms to a point where duels are no longer viable. I'll be adding decorative doors and windows when I'm doing all the detailing. Right now I'm really just focusing on getting the layout nice and tight. I want the architecture to make some actual sense but I really don't mind if it doesn't look realistic

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sektor2111 wrote:I like the layout, but exist some small... heck I could see this in other maps as well... CHAINS here in D3D9:
Hi there Sektor! I might need your services when I'm hooking up the teleporters if the dumbots decide they don't like it lol :ironic:
I'd fix the chains when I was working on the other textures but I won't mind if you send me the fixed PCX you already have :P
sektor2111 wrote:- some ammo actors might be a bit upper located - allow me some CHAOS-ification gaming;
I also noticed those rocketpacks sunk into the ground near by the minigun. I still need to tweak ammo placement and they are a pain sometimes to get leveled with the floor. I'll align everything when I'm sure I won't be moving then around anymore.

sektor2111 wrote:a PathNode from one of those ramps is creating a Loop like in CTF-Command (not sure if others have similar problems) - perhaps it's even useless as long as those ramps are... SHORT - I recommend them lowered with 10 UU;
Gotcha! Maybe that's why they were getting stuck on the ledges at first. I have everything on grid right now to make it easier to move brushes around but I'll be making that ajustment soon.
sektor2111 wrote:Doors/Buttons can be Lifts - not a big problem here but still Bot has too much power over them in this case.
What you mean by that?

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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by Red_Fist » Tue May 28, 2019 2:09 am

You broken my faith not doing the MH map. :P
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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by sektor2111 » Tue May 28, 2019 4:10 pm

Iacobus wrote:What you mean by that?
Not me, but log speaks:

Code: Select all

ScriptLog: Warning: DM-BrokenFaith][Beta][.ElevatorMover1 is BumpOpenTimed.  Bots don't understand this well - use StandOpenTimed instead!
ScriptLog: Warning: DM-BrokenFaith][Beta][.ElevatorMover0 is BumpOpenTimed.  Bots don't understand this well - use StandOpenTimed instead!
ScriptLog: Warning: DM-BrokenFaith][Beta][.ElevatorMover2 is BumpOpenTimed.  Bots don't understand this well - use StandOpenTimed instead!
ScriptLog: Warning: DM-BrokenFaith][Beta][.ElevatorMover3 is BumpOpenTimed.  Bots don't understand this well - use StandOpenTimed instead!
And then if you are curios what a bot is doing with Lift type buttons see this: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12094#p96407
Spectate 2-3 Bots first over there and then play alone and see if any of those lifts is listening to you :P . This is what I'm hating at a map: I'm dying during fall but... crazy Bots can summon lifts (buttons/doors actually). And Epic has a wrong log. The right log would be

Code: Select all

... use StandOpenTimed instead for preventing Bots to CHEAT making a mess with you.
But they couldn't manage A.I. properly here... Else the fix would be hacking Mover in run-time instead of writing stories...
Iacobus wrote:I'd fix the chains when I was working on the other textures but I won't mind if you send me the fixed PCX you already have :P
I don't know image format, Editor did it...
[attachment=0]th_decc.7z[/attachment]

For linking whatever teleporters things I think are easy, if XC_Core doesn't help (I think is helpful) FV_LinkedPoint will definitely work - is the same as swJumpPad but without kicking.

Edit: For record toward a few actors - map garbage reported:
MapGarbage wrote: VoidCheck: --- Void placement report ---
VoidCheck: Light50 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: Light53 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: RedTapestry0 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: RedTapestry1 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: RedTapestry2 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: Light89 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: 6 actors look placed into void, check those.
These can be removed if are not used, else those flags can be dropped back in map...
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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by Iacobus » Tue May 28, 2019 10:23 pm

Red_Fist wrote:You broken my faith not doing the MH map. :P
lol :P I promise I'll be restoring your faith after I'm done with this one. I really want to make a SP map and I think MH will be a good gateway to that.
sektor2111 wrote: Spectate 2-3 Bots first over there and then play alone and see if any of those lifts is listening to you :P . This is what I'm hating at a map: I'm dying during fall but... crazy Bots can summon lifts (buttons/doors actually).
Thanks, I'll be checking the link. I remember you pointing that out some time ago but I thought bots always had control over lifts regarless the setting you use. Can' they always hide it backwards if they want to?
sektor2111 wrote:I don't know image format, Editor did it...
Alright, thanks! I downloaded this as jpeg and edited to tone down the brightness but didn't set an alpha channel.
sektor2111 wrote: For linking whatever teleporters things I think are easy, if XC_Core doesn't help (I think is helpful) FV_LinkedPoint will definitely work - is the same as swJumpPad but without kicking.

So, are teleporters always buggy or it can be done vanilla if you set then in a good and open spot? Do they work fine in DM-Galleon and DM-Gothic?
I was testing it in the other map I was making and they would always go for the Tp and would get caught on a loop once the got through. By tweaking pathing I got to a point where they would never ever use the Tp, even though it was still
hooked into. Also, are there any issues regarding A.I and WarpZones?

sektor2111 wrote:Edit: For record toward a few actors - map garbage reported:
MapGarbage wrote: VoidCheck: --- Void placement report ---
VoidCheck: Light50 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: Light53 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: RedTapestry0 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: RedTapestry1 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: RedTapestry2 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: Light89 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: 6 actors look placed into void, check those.
These can be removed if are not used, else those flags can be dropped back in map...
Thanks! The lights were all in that outside area that I moved around when i made the big arch. 2 of the banners were slightly touching the geometry and the last one was a mishandled Ctrl-C - Ctrl-V.
I'll be consolidating the geometry this week and then I'll start fixing all the sloppy placemet of actors

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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by sektor2111 » Wed May 29, 2019 6:38 am

Iacobus wrote:So, are teleporters always buggy or it can be done vanilla if you set then in a good and open spot? Do they work fine in DM-Galleon and DM-Gothic?
Not really, bots are using teleporters except Deck16][ where teleporter to redeemer it's into void. Recalling hint:
move alone through Gothic and setup rememberspot on top nearby "Armor2" actor, then jump down through arches in multiple locations and try to navigate using ShowPath - see if lamp navigation-beacon spawns around you and heads you to the top through teleporters - it think it does. Patch for Gothic is addressing those paths having a bad angle toward ledges or those heading down but causing a failure (- around "big keg health") simply un-referencing those reachSpecs, but nothing for teleporters. Like I said, swJumpad is a tribute from community for A.I. giving a lesson to EPIC themselves (woot mapping contest in stage) else there are more "domestic" teleporters - not teleporting, not dropping pawn, but just linking some points which are not linked but they can be linked - plain mapping.
Iacobus wrote:I remember you pointing that out some time ago but I thought bots always had control over lifts regarless the setting you use.
Nope, they do not control in jerky way "Stand" types and then if they are sitting around waiting lift, that one has to be set with triggers else they wait forever (and for helping player too) a bump lift is a Button for Bots and they can trigger buttons - see above linked sample-map-type.

Warp-Zones - usually these are working if paths network is solid. The problem comes if pawns is moving too slow around them = crash. Next problem is human tester. Engine has WarpZoneMarker incorrect coded and then debugging tools which UT has (described in docs), will crash such a map when WarpZone is next Point that has to be touched by Human player tester, so to speak you cannot easily check paths in a map with WarpZones, unless you know how to bypass warp during that testing stage.
InstantHit weapons won't damage anything through warps, with other words you won't see me using them - Bots cannot see you but you can fire a rocket killing a defender through a warp and moron won't even blink, and then you can ambush all A.I. over there because they won't see you from a warp but you might see them, so for me it's a nonsense what they did with warp-zones. If mapper wants such maps I'm defaulted to not even read that topic.

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Iacobus
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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by Iacobus » Thu May 30, 2019 1:33 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Iacobus wrote:Like I said, swJumpad is a tribute from community for A.I. giving a lesson to EPIC themselves (woot mapping contest in stage)
Part of the fun of mapping for me is figuring better ways to utilize what's already available. I see a lot of talk about scripting and very little talk and support for mapping and level design, you know, to actually
come up with levels that are worth playing and codding for. That's the the only reason why I'm a little hesitant in going straight way for makeshift solutions but I'm aware that teleporters have always been an issue though and I'll also be using the swJumppads in CFT-Bollwerk and surely I'm grateful for that. Anyways, people should always go for what bring them joy, not trying to diss or tell anyone off, just sharing my frustration in this regard which is kinda the other side of the frustration you have with poorly scripted/pathed maps, Btw, I hope you don't take to the heart any jabs I throw at you, it's just irresistible sometimes given your snarky nature :loool:

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Made some progress last night and applied some of the suggestion here in the thread. I'll be lighting things up and adding some more textures to improve navigation and then release a new Beta by Friday. I've been trying different floor textures but without success. I love the gritty looking this one has but it's being a pain to tune it to not look too noisy from afar and too muddy at close.
Shot0087_1.jpg
Medpacks were moved underneath the wooden platform and I'm considering adding 2 more somewhere in the upper area. Thightpads moved downstairs and another one added in the other corner of the room by the sniper. A step was added beneath the windows to allow players to front roll to the ShockRifle area without requiring an extra jump. The area with the overhang was turned into a bell tower to start fitting the theme a little more.


Shot0070_1a.jpg
An walkway was added in the flat wall by the entrance, giving a little more ZY to the area and a little loop around alcove was added with a player start and a second ShockRifle to justify that area, but it needs more testing. It's a bit out of the way so I don't think it'll mess with the overall flow already stablished and will serve more as a starting point.

Shot0089_1.jpg
The wooden beams were trimmed 32uu giving a better visibility in this room.
One of the invisible brushes underneath the chains was causing insta death and was fixed

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Re: DM-BrokenFaith (WIP)

Post by Red_Fist » Thu May 30, 2019 3:49 am

See you got the brown on brown being wood or not wood. To show 3d depth more, make those pillars stand out. In art usually darker means farther away.
Binary Space Partitioning

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