Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

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OjitroC
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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by OjitroC » Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:05 pm

PrinceOfFunky wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:31 pm
How doesn't it make it an error?
There are issues that are left unnoticed or simply not fixed for decades in a software, it can happen.
Well, we know it's not an error as it was coded that way and the developers intended the progress message to be hidden when the voice menu is opened.

It won't have gone unnoticed as people using the voice menu will have seen the progress message vanish (albeit temporarily). I've certainly noticed it and not considered it anything other than normal and desirable behaviour.

That it is now an issue is undeniable - the key question is whether the progress message behaviour can be altered without having a negative impact on the utility of the voice menu (and indeed on anything else).

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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by PrinceOfFunky » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:26 am

OjitroC wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:05 pm
PrinceOfFunky wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:31 pm
How doesn't it make it an error?
There are issues that are left unnoticed or simply not fixed for decades in a software, it can happen.
Well, we know it's not an error as it was coded that way and the developers intended the progress message to be hidden when the voice menu is opened.

It won't have gone unnoticed as people using the voice menu will have seen the progress message vanish (albeit temporarily). I've certainly noticed it and not considered it anything other than normal and desirable behaviour.

That it is now an issue is undeniable - the key question is whether the progress message behaviour can be altered without having a negative impact on the utility of the voice menu (and indeed on anything else).
Yeah, it was coded this way, I'll call it issue instead of error from now on.
"Your stuff is known to be buggy and unfinished/not properly tested"

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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by Chamberly » Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:44 am

Btw, #Reference to other issues is strictly XOpenGL related. (In the pic gargul2 described)
That states here https://github.com/OldUnreal/UnrealTour ... /issues/60 which is nothing to contribute to way I spoke about gargul2.

I simply have him blocked because of the constant cross reference between different issue trackers, which can make it confusing and not staying on the topic can make taking care of issues more troublesome. But yes just as FD pointed out, calling out names and cussing out to other is also not a polite way to discuss about things in beta-testing class manner. Sadly on Github it doesn't hide the user and their posts but it'd be helpful if it did.

Btw - regarding text going missing: I remembered I was messing around with some text overlay stuff, sometimes one do overwrite the other or make the other disappear as soon one comes up. Most commonly seen is the announcer text so I was thinking it was common. MonsterHunt probably have the most text overlay abuse as far I've remembered, some wouldn't get cut out but one of the other will do. Might go back and look at that as well. I did quite remember (or not) if I had the voice menu open, the announcer text was still showing anyway so it may be a different set up than the flag pickup msg text (As if the flag pickup msg is on client>Flag instead of client>Announcer).
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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:03 am

I thought that are more other more important issues to solve than a letter soup shown on screen. Eh, butterflies...
I was expecting an add-on or something advanced for Editor and even for game automated as Package for 436 clients but I see dumb things very important to solve when in fact game design for preventing a screen overload was well defined, we have to ruin it with any matter.

Edit:
And now it's my turn at chapter butterflies.
In UnrealTournament.ini file it looks like there is a section called "WindowPositions" which has some potential "configurable" things. I believe these are myths not fixed even in uber 227. They are just SPAM. Let me see section:

Code: Select all

[WindowPositions]
GameLog=(X=75,Y=75,XL=512,YL=256)
ConfigPageRenderer=(X=5,Y=96,XL=516,YL=280)
ConfigPageSound=(X=5,Y=96,XL=516,YL=280)
ConfigPageDriver=(X=5,Y=96,XL=516,YL=280)
ConfigPageDetail=(X=5,Y=96,XL=516,YL=280)
ConfigPageFirstTime=(X=5,Y=96,XL=516,YL=280)
WizardDialog=(X=375,Y=140,XL=530,YL=439)
ConfigPageSafeMode=(X=5,Y=96,XL=516,YL=280)
VFToolbar=(X=3,Y=3,XL=1188,YL=24)
PictureButton=(X=666,Y=8,XL=22,YL=20)
Sound Browser=(X=4,Y=32,XL=496,YL=299)
Music Browser=(X=4,Y=32,XL=496,YL=299)
Group Browser=(X=4,Y=32,XL=496,YL=299)
Master Browser=(X=762,Y=40,XL=512,YL=384)
Texture Browser=(X=770,Y=158,XL=496,YL=299)
Actor Browser=(X=770,Y=158,XL=496,YL=299)
Mesh Browser=(X=770,Y=158,XL=496,YL=299)
Scale Lights=(X=494,Y=266,XL=291,YL=105)
Progress=(X=415,Y=275,XL=449,YL=88)
Search for Actors=(X=387,Y=177,XL=506,YL=283)
Replace Textures=(X=378,Y=156,XL=524,YL=325)
EditorLog=(X=100,Y=59,XL=450,YL=450)
Find/Replace=(X=407,Y=217,XL=458,YL=196)
CodeFrame=(X=0,Y=-41,XL=1120,YL=629)
MdiFrameBottom=(X=86,Y=688,XL=1194,YL=32)
BottomBar=(X=86,Y=688,XL=1194,YL=32)
MdiFrameLeft=(X=0,Y=73,XL=86,YL=647)
EditorToolbar=(X=0,Y=73,XL=86,YL=647)
MdiFrameTop=(X=0,Y=41,XL=1280,YL=32)
TopBar=(X=0,Y=41,XL=1280,YL=32)
Viewport Config=(X=472,Y=254,XL=335,YL=129)
Brush Builder=(X=48,Y=198,XL=345,YL=283)
ActorProperties=(X=925,Y=32,XL=352,YL=436)
Preferences=(X=125,Y=125,XL=352,YL=512)
EditActor=(X=75,Y=75,XL=352,YL=512)
Section for my interest is BrushBuilder <Brush Builder=(X=48,Y=198,XL=345,YL=283)> and not only that. It's "fascinating" to see Editor having the same stupid plain size of a builder disregarding what you do over here and... RESTORING ALL. Why storing them since you are ignoring what I do ? Geez ! It's only writing abominations, not even multiple of two/eight 345 × 283 it's indeed awesome... :loool: and it won't read/gain other values from this section when it starts but not forgetting to save these junks. What did you do, EPIC ? Are you serious here ? If you are not taking them in account why saving these ? The logic here has flew on window.
Last edited by sektor2111 on Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by gargul2 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:41 pm

To Chamberly
Chamberly wrote:I simply have him blocked because of the constant cross reference between different issue trackers, which can make it confusing and not staying on the topic can make taking care of issues more troublesome.
I didn't even realised my cross-references were an issue for you,
because you simply didn't inform me about that fact,
I spent 5 years on github already (on various nicks),
created hundreds of issues,
posted hundreds of comments,
and made tens of cross-references,
and my cross-references never were an issue for anybody except you,
but if you would just ask me, instead of silently blocking,
that in this particular issue tracker,
you would like to not see less-important cross-references from me,
it would be not a problem for me to avoid them or code-tag them,
but no, you simply blocked me instead,
what blocked not only my cross-references,
but also possibility to reply in your issues,
what ruins collaboration,
sure, perhaps for you my cross-references ruin collaboration as well,
but not as much as blocking an user and preventing him from posting in you issues,
simply silently blocking an user,
without talking to him first and asking to avoid or to code-tag cross-references,
is not a polite way collaboration problems should be solved,
Chamberly wrote:But yes just as FD pointed out, calling out names and cussing out to other is also not a polite way to discuss about things in beta-testing class manner. Sadly on Github it doesn't hide the user and their posts but it'd be helpful if it did.
Sure, what's your polite way then?
The one, when you block an user instead of to talk to him first, as I mentioned above?
Or a polite hypocrisy way, to start an off-topic like SeriousBuggie,
then when I reply to his off-topic,
to admonish me, in a rude way,
to not off-topic in reply to his own off-topic?
It seems you and FD like to talk about a polite way the things should be done,
yet yourselves do the opposite.
And then you play a victim,
and FD plays your advocate role.


To Feralidragon

Calm down, are you Chamberly's advocate? Wow...you replied to me with a long post full of hard things about me which I don't agree, so I have a right to reply to it to defend myself.

Feralidragon wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:18 pm
I mean:


https://github.com/OldUnreal/UnrealTour ... -699544754
gargul2 wrote: Go fuck yourself, my contribution stopped now. I have meet too many such fucktards like you in my life and on the whole github, too many times, in too many places, fix 469a yourself with your attitude, bye
It seems you intentionally took my comment out of the context and quoted only a "bad" part to show how "bad" I am,
you intentionally missed part which explain why I replied in such tone, let's quote the missing part then:
gargul2 wrote: And who started Off-TOpic?
Off-topic:
For me this XOpenGL too bugged so even never test or use it.
So I just continued it, and now you bitching me? Bye hypocrite.
Don't you think that if someone starts off-topic and someone else continues it, then the one who started should not reprimand the other about off-topic, especially in a rude way? It's just stupid and annoying and is called a hypocrisy, and such hypocrisy is toxic behaviour, and toxic behaviour deserves toxic replies.

Also don't you think that if you take only a part of my comment out of the context you are unfair? It's called trolling, and it's another toxic behaviour example.
Feralidragon wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:18 pm

https://github.com/OldUnreal/UnrealTour ... -699670925
gargul2 wrote:LOL. Comon. Good joke. Perhaps you didn't read the whole thread...
To not mention that while you do have a point there of testing higher resolutions and small fonts being barely visible in this specific issue, the fact is that the game is designed and has to maintain proper support for lower resolutions regardless of what you think or feel about it.

So rather than ranting all over the place on how 1920x1080 resolution is the most common one nowadays, maybe you should restrict yourself to show (not tell) the problem at 1920x1080 and request for something to be done for higher resolutions.
And rather than treat people badly, maybe you should treat them with the same respect they have shown towards you.
There is nothing bad in this comment, such weird settings res 800x600 & 400 FPS just made me laugh, because they are very uncommon, which I proved by providing Steam stats, not by "what I think or feel about it", that's all, what's your problem with this comment?
Feralidragon wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:18 pm
Judging by your own comments thus far there, it seems to me that you were the only toxic element yourself there, and you're just projecting that denomination onto someone else.

Just as 2 examples, and from the same github issue, with the former being reply to someone who has been in fact contributing a LOT of reports and tools for the patch, and with the latter being a reply to Anth no less, the actual lead programmer for this patch and whom perhaps may understand a bit better what he's talking about than you.
It doesn't seem so as both of your examples failed.
I've explained my first comment you quoted and proved it was a SeriousBuggie's behaviour which deserved hard reply.
I've explained my second comment you quoted as well and proved there is nothing bad in it and it was just an adequate reaction to weird screenshoots.
Feralidragon wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:18 pm
That is a prime example of toxic behavior, so either a warning or a ban would be expected eventually as you kept relentlessly going off-topic and treat people like shit.
Not true, as above, your examples failed, I proved the off-topic was started by SeriousBuggie and in the second case it was provoked by Chamberly weird screenshoots.

Furthermore I can parody you, by saying that the prime example of toxic behaviour are users/admins who agressiviely block (like Chamberly) or ban (like you) other users for nothing or for something they are unable to defend against by a typical way it's being done: by argumentation, the moment they lose their argumentation, they are pressing these pathetic block / ban (also remove, lock etc.) buttons. Furthermore, unlike them, I don't agressiviely do toxic things: I don't hit ban / block / remove / lock buttons, I prefer replying by a comment and providing argumentation and this is an example of my non-toxic behaviour compared to your toxic.
Feralidragon wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:18 pm
The fact that you linked that specific comment which the first 2 lines go like this:
gargul2 wrote:Sure, don't post screenshoots with some crappy weird screen settings then, please.
An off-topic would not even begin then...
all the while trying to play the victim is pretty telling, this being the very definition of being toxic, as you put it.
Nope, just defended myself by a similiar argument, once then, he was unable to provide a new argument, so he blocked me like a child who had taken their lollipop. That is what is toxic, a prime example of toxicity and unability to win by argumentation, also a very childish behaviour.
Feralidragon wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:18 pm
with the former being reply to someone who has been in fact contributing a LOT of reports and tools for the patch,
Me too is a a guy who contribute much to various open source projects on the whole github, bugzilla and many other open soruce trackers FYI, I have others nicks as well, just because I'm not so long in ut99 it doesn't mean I'm not long in other open source projects, I spent enought time in internet to actually know how much toxicity is here, I defend against it.
Feralidragon wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:18 pm
And rather than treat people badly, maybe you should treat them with the same respect they have shown towards you.
That's exactly what I do, I treat them like they treat me... Oh wait, no, actually I treat them better than they treat me: I prefer to prove right by discussion and argumentation rather than by childish and toxic behaviour like pressing block or ban buttons, furthermore I don't paste screenshoots with weird settings, and I don't pour out hypocrisy by stupid rude replies like "stop off-topic" if it's me who started the off-topic, to a guy who just replied to my off-topic. Also you can put 100 times word "toxic" in your elaboration about toxicity and it still won't make me the one who is toxic. Also unlike you, I don't agressiviely call admins on you to ban you, like you did to me, I'm definately not such kind of person. These who agressiviely press ban / block / lock / remove / cenzorship buttons are the most toxic in the internet.

Try to guess what will happen now? I did nothing wrong, just replied to your long comment, defending myself, and now your friend moderator / admin will come and agressiviely hit these pathetic ban / remove / lock / block buttons, for no reason. How do I know this? I meet such toxic admins / users the whole time...they are the toxic ones, they abuse pr essing ban / block/ lock / remove buttons like gods....perhaps this time it will not be case...

As seen, my reply is as long as your failed elaboration about toxicity, otherwise I would not put so long reply.
I'm not gonna continue our discussion unless you reply to me again...it's your choice whether to continue our conversation,
I posted a short comment, you replied with a long elaboration, so I did.
Last edited by gargul2 on Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Feralidragon
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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by Feralidragon » Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:45 pm

The only thing I take from your reply and comments thus far (here and there) is that you're generally a very angry person, and you seem to see every reply that disagrees with you as a personal attack and a conflict.

I mean, my reply wasn't that long (and I tend to make huge posts, which is a known fact around here and a bad habit of mine, that's why I do only a few and in between, especially when I add long parenthesis like these), yet, interestingly, you saw the length of my reply as a threat by itself, and so you felt you had to do a bigger reply.

There's nothing wrong with arguing and having a different opinion, but the way you do it is very important, and that's exactly the problem here, and it's more of a problem in a place like Github where things are expected to be a bit more "professional" and "mature" if you will, in the sense that your self expression as you presented may be fine most of the time in a forum like this, but it's decidedly not fine in a setting like Github.

The way you acted was childish at best, especially with claims of insulting and going off-topic yourself because someone else went first and called you out on it.

It wasn't just Chamberly who got uncomfortable with what you did and how you did it, everyone was, including the devs who really want to just address the issues and not having to address drama.
I am indeed somewhat playing their advocate here because right now is what I can contribute with so they are able to focus in development instead of worrying about having to deal with people like you.

It all boils down to an old and long standing simple Internet motto: Don't be a dick!

You weren't simply trying to argue back with counter points, and you still aren't, you were making a huge deal about every and each one of them, while including some low key insults towards the people you were disagreeing or presenting a counter point towards, treating them like they were below you, which is especially off-putting when your points come from flawed sources, which makes it even worse.

For example: Steam data doesn't really apply very well to a 20-year old game like UT99, because it's not really representative of UT99 player base, when most players get their game from somewhere else other than Steam.
Many UT99 players still have relatively old computers, and most commonly, old screens, and even those with modern high-end computers and screens often tend to play the game at lower resolution due to personal preference (generally it's not even a problem about performance), even if they play other games at max resolution.

It's also useful for development, when you want to have multiple UT99 client instances running at the same time in the same machine, which is something at least one of the devs does to test several things concerning multiplayer games.

That is to say that lower resolutions are still important to address and keep, being almost a requirement as far as the agreement made with Epic goes as well, but your point about fonts being too small in higher resolutions and thus the need to address them is perfectly valid, but you were hellbent on having lower resolutions completely shit on in favor of higher resolution alone, and you pretty much yelled at people for just showing low resolution screenshots from their end, when what you should have actually done is concede the fact that in low resolution it works fine, and shown that in higher resolutions it doesn't so everyone sees and understands what you're talking about, but you didn't do this, and instead just decided to treat people like they were dumb.

I am not going to address the quotes, since I did provide links along with them with the full context, which doesn't really add much to your case, and nothing that I could say is going to convince you.

Among everyone participating there, you were the only one standing out and creating all sorts of conflicts and causing all sorts of chaos in the issues themselves, and replying the way you did, and that's why you were removed from there.

If you cannot understand this and don't see the problem, and if you think everyone else is the problem, then I can't really help or argue with you any further, and I pity whichever other projects you're involved with if this is how you behave on them as well.

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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by Gustavo6046 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:31 am

We could support a standard IR and compile UnrealScript to it.

If we decide to support LLVM IR, we could even compile UnrealScipt and link into actual programs! Although that's probably 200.0% unnecessary... Except, it'd be kinda like decaf Java, so it could actually be worth it.

Or we could compile UnrealScript to another virtual machine bytecode, like NekoVM or even WebAssembly. Alternatively, we could add embedded JavaScript, to make modding a bit more painless when it comes to hardcoded limitations and such.

Those are coulds... but neither are shoulds. I cannot give proper shoulds.

Besides, the fact so much of the game is hard-coded, and some parts can't even be reimplemented externally (like say NavigationPoints), is probably a more important focus, if we really want to look here into the modding side of things.

After all, those are non-trivial and big things, and pretty broad suggestions. It's like suggesting a baker to try manioc flour instead of wheat flour for an upcoming experimental batch of bread, when the wheat bread works well enough and gluten-allergic people just eat yogurt or something instead anyway.

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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by gargul2 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:54 am

Feralidragon,

Calm down, you don't need to attack me personally, I'm not an angry person, what are you trying to convince (btw it's easy to see that you are defending your friends regardless of the arguments)

I already provided an argumentation why I replied to SeriousBuggie's comment in such spicy way, I preffered to reply to SeriousBuggie with a spicy comment rather to block him, as I consider it is less of an evil to write a spicy comment than to block a person, like Chamberly did to me and like you wanted to do to me by calling admins to ban me, as what I already wrote: I think agressiviely blocking / banning users, especially without any kind of explanation / argumentation is an abusement and a childish behaviour, also is far more toxic than replying with a spicy comment, without blocking an user. I also already explained why there was nothing bad in my reply to Chamberly's 800x600 & 400 FPS screenshoots, if you or Chamberly want to promote 800x600 in 2020, go on.

As SeriousBuggie even didn't reply to my spicy comment, I take it as that he realized he overdone a bit in his own comment, and that's all. Similiar with Chamberly, he unblocked me on github after my complains on ut99.org, so I did as well, again - I take it as that he realized he overdone a bit when he blocked me on github without any kind of explanation, and that's all.

I won't reply to your other accusations, not because I lack argumentation, but just because you're projecting too much by writing at me too many personally aimed things, and such conversation is to be out of control soon, unlike you, I don't want flame wars here, not my level.
Feralidragon wrote:It all boils down to an old and long standing simple Internet motto: Don't be a dick!
Sure, I'm never a dick for someone, unless that someone is the first to be a dick for me.

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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by Feralidragon » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:41 pm

Interestingly, you just keep proving my previous points, even if you don't realize it yourself, and the problem with this is the fact that you're completely missing the point, so even if you have access to things again, it's very likely you will be banned again in the near future if you keep behaving like this.

So don't be surprised if you happen to be banned from there again if you keep that up from now on.
gargul2 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:54 am
As SeriousBuggie even didn't reply to my spicy comment, I take it as that he realized he overdone a bit in his own comment, and that's all.
Or maybe, just maybe, he didn't reply because he's a grown up who understands that there's no point in wasting time in replying to the kind of comment you wrote, given that any reply would just escalate the off-topic even further, when his entire point was to not go off-topic in the first place.

And on that note, maybe I should do the same here, since this is like playing chess against a pigeon at this point.

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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by gargul2 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:36 am

So you still didn't calm down...
Feralidragon wrote:And on that note, maybe I should do the same here, since this is like playing chess against a pigeon at this point."
God thanks, finally. I'm so glad you finally realized the same thing I already realised long time ago.
You advanced from a pigeon to a chess player.
Last edited by gargul2 on Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:46 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by OjitroC » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:26 am

gargul2 wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:36 am
You advanced from a pigeon to a chess player.
At the risk of continuing this fruitlessly, as a disinterested observer I would suggest that chess players would be savvy enough not to be unnecessarily sarcastic to the people who can sort out their issue SCR.

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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by gargul2 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:46 pm

Me too, at the risk of continuing this fruitlessly,
as a disinterested observer I would like to inform
I've realised I somehow missed Chamberly's POST ,
so I've appended my reply to it, to MY POST,
now if he or FD reply to it, the party will continue, lolz, omg.

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Re: Were our bug reports and suggestions even useful?

Post by UnrealGGecko » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:42 pm

How about you discuss this between yourselves in PMs and not in a forum that wasnt related, ok?

--This whole thread is just a shitshow. LOCKED!