Halting stuff

[RocketJedi]

I have asthma. I also wear a cpap mask 8-9 hours a night. it's uncomfortable and painful. I also have asthma and can breathe just fine in the mask. When I go onsite to my job that's 8 hours of it. The worst thing with the mask was it was hurting my goofy ass ears and working up a sweat.. bought a new mask that helps with that. There is ZERO excuse to not do the right thing. The only valid argument I read here was the state of the economy, and people losing jobs. It sucks.

Maybe we disagree on what the right thing is then. And I don't have that type of a mask even, what I have is way worse and I can't breathe through it. But its the only size that fits.
"Human rights" are economic matter?

EDITL Misunderstood about the mask, the cpap I had to look it up, thought it was something else. It is separate from the mask you're wearing normally. But apparently people often get cpap because their wife can't stand the way they breathe.

Wow you're just a plethora of misinformation. I wear a CPAP because I literally stop breathing at night. Your idiotic comments deserve the ridicule they are getting. This reminds me of when the seatbelt law was instituted there were geniuses like yourself crying about their freedoms being taken away. Yet here we are wearing seatbelts, and saving lives. Do the right thing for your fellow man. Stop being so selfish and self absorbed.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

You are basically telling that cyberbullying is right. Die, SCUM!

I hope you will have a very painful death motherfucker. Hate speech allowed people! You are ut of your minds. You are justyfying abuse. GO FUCK YURSELF.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Selfish and self absorbed? Absolutely the opposite you fucktard. Look at Delacroix and his self righteous attitude deciding what's wrong and what not and being too entitled. Go to bloody hell.

Ah, freedom of speech. Finally I can say what the FUCK I want now. And if you disagree your loss motherfucker, your loss.

EDIT: Nobody fucking dares to adress my points instead I got hate. Congratulations. Serves you right first asking for links then disregarding everything with your inane BULLSHIT.

[Hellkeeper]

No but really, don't try to ridicule me, I posted valid links, so you can't just shrug this off.

I'm just tired of this kind of threads. I see them everywhere I go. In every crowd, there is someone underplaying the pandemic if you're lucky, linking it to a 5G chip-implanting chinese plot by Bill Gates if you're unlucky. It's tiresome, it's dumb, I don't know why they exist and I want them to stay away from my Unreal.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Good, then don't look at them! This is the first time I see it being discussed on any forum. Besides that wasn't even my main point of the original OT. Instead I get attacked now and at least one post was quickly edited before being noticed.

[Hellkeeper]

It's literally the first thread on UT99's frontpage. As far as discussing the actual point, I don't even know why anyone would start a debate when your first post contains "this is not a deadly virus" when we're nearing 1.5 million dead worldwide with numbers which are probably way underestimated in most countries.

[EvilGrins]

I don't care if you think the covid restrictions are necesary., they aren't and they are causing poverty to happen.

I don't care that you don't care, you're being wrong (which you are) doesn't impact me in anyway... but as a rule for any pandemic shutdowns are necessary and it is sheer idiocy to reopen before the problem is fixed, which it still very much is not.

Plus I started to suffocate when being in an office last time for prolonged amount of time witrh the mask on

Working with the masks on does take some getting used to, and I have asthma so I can relate... but it's necessary. You don't need to wear them tightly to your face, no pun intended but you have to allow some breathing room.

It isn't a "deadly virus" that the media would have you believe and I know that from real experts

It very much is a deadly virus, and if whoever you're referring to as experts say otherwise then they're really not experts. The actual experts say it is a deadly virus... think I'll stick with them.

people will point and shout and call me delusional

Leo, i know you from a number of different forums and on all of them you call yourself delusional... and as you know yourself better than most, I will stick with your own assessment of yourself. You start threads sharing whatever random insanity you're not entirely sure if it's real or not but you want to share it with others... they're fascinating posts, but you started saying you were delusional yourself long before this week.

Hopefully you will get a clue on this virus eventually, because you're clearly not there yet.

[RocketJedi]

It's literally the first thread on UT99's frontpage. As far as discussing the actual point, I don't even know why anyone would start a debate when your first post contains "this is not a deadly virus" when we're nearing 1.5 million dead worldwide with numbers which are probably way underestimated in most countries.

You cant fix stupid and ignorant unfortunately. The guy cries about cyber bullying then goes ahead and cyber bullies with profane language and death wishes

real class act here wouldn't you agree?

You are basically telling that cyberbullying is right. Die, SCUM!

I hope you will have a very painful death motherfucker. Hate speech allowed people! You are ut of your minds. You are justyfying abuse. GO FUCK YURSELF.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

No, they are not underestimated, if pcr tests are in the scale and last I looked most countries use those, they can give either 50 percent false positive or 50 percent false negative.

Show me proof for your claims and that the media and corporations haven't sucesfuly brainwashed the population. Just show me. I showed you some evidence on the contrary and how it is unreliable.

Speaking of doctor who the bbc or someone have setup a dalek going through the street telling people they will be exterminated if they don't self isolate and there have been even threatening mini episodes of the show where a member of torchwood threatened to send people to peoples homes if they don't self-isolate and such behavior is being heralded as positive going to people's conciousness. Yea right. Those are socialist brainwashing tactics.

All I see is ignorance. Those experts I posted about are the actual experts, those other ones have been bribed by the government and corporations.

Where did I call myself delusional? I didn't see that anywhere, can you point me to it? Otherwise your credibility just went down the toilet, but I was probably joking either way if I said something like "I'm going crazy".

So this is really strange for me to hear.

[Delacroix]

Whoever tries to deny the current state of affairs in respect to Covid absolutely deserves to be ridiculed,

Well, true, but I'd disagree with this being an effective course of action. Rather than ridicule, make jokes and overall turn it into a laughing matter, it's better to respond deadly seriously, with provable facts, like you're actually doing below, in order to destroy such an opinion on a meritorical level. Certain people tend to have compassion for the ridiculed, as they just found an "oppressed" person to protect. Barely anybody however protects those whom others have proven to be in the wrong.

especially since such a position greatly contributes for more deaths to happen, so those who deny it also have direct responsibility on those deaths.

No. The direct responsibility falls on the virus. People who act irresponsibly have an INdirect responsibility. However, they are still, in fact, responsible. More on that below.

Plus, many of those who actively denied Covid ended up catching it, and some of them ended up dying from it.

Like this guy from this article: Please read.

This kind of epidemic has always been predicted to eventually happen someday, and people across several organizations warned the world many times about this, and in the past several years there have been several moments where it could have happened already, but the viruses involved were either too lethal or were harder to spread or had a vaccine which could be quickly adapted to it, so the viruses just didn't have the right cocktail of ingredients to take on the world and died out pretty quickly.

But, these cases have proven that the developed first world countries' health systems may very well be inadequate for a real pandemic.

But now a virus has appeared which has all the right ingredients to be a true world-wide threat, like it was predicted many times before. (...) This was always going to happen eventually, it just happens that it happened at the end of 2019 and all the way into 2020.

And indeed, the healthcare systems suffer. As do the law systems but I barely hear about those. Exhibit: Poland. Our government is utilizing every trick in the book to halt the epidemic their carelessness in the summer allowed to resurge. However, what barely anybody seems to talk about that legally, almost none of these measures are constitutional or lawful. Any fines for breaking the rules are to be paid immediately and you're welcome to try your luck in court to get these back, for years to come. Now, let me get this straight: I do not mind the countermeasures introduced. AT ALL. However, from a legal standpoint this is a mess. From the Polish constitution's standpoint, such limits may only be imposed during a state of national emergency or martial law - none of that is officially in effect, which makes all government decrees on the matter unlawful. All this could easily be solved by introducing national emergency before imposing the imits. This is going to be a right mess after the pandemic, when people start suing the politicians for the attempt to save lives. This is nothing short of a tragedy waiting to happen.

And that's just one country. I don't know how many countries in the world make sure their methods of handling the pandemic are constitutional and fully legal. And people these days are entitled. When they find out that they can sue governments for money for the epidemic countermeasures - NEVER MIND THESE VERY SAME COUNTERMEASURES SAVING THEIR LIVES - I bet there'll be enough cases in courts to cause a real problem. At least in PL.

And the reason why deaths of Covid patients are generally all ruled as Covid deaths directly is for the same reason why a radiation poisoned patient death cause is ruled as radiation poisoning without further study: because it's too dangerous for a live person to perform autopsies on a corpse still carrying the same thing that likely killed the person

Yep. It's best to play it safe. Besides, these diagnoses are most likely correct.

Furthermore, even if many deaths were complications of pre-existing conditions, it was more than proven that Covid directly causes those conditions to worsen, so Covid cannot really be ruled out as a cause most of the time, since it does directly contribute to it, more so than most other common diseases.

Remember what I said above about equalizing direct and indirect responsibility? It doesn't matter if you do something directly or cause a small domino effect with the last domino piece causing the same thing to happen. You started it, you're responsible.

So it doesn't matter if covid killed somebody directly or by worsening the preexisting conditions. By that same logic, denying covid's responsibility for the latter would also mean AIDS didn't kill a single person. Because directly, to my knowledge, it doesn't. All it does is destroy the immunity system, allowing everything else to whittle you down quickly. A coronasceptic person saying that it's the preexisting conditions that killed a patient, not covid itself, reminds me of this person here, played by Tom Cruise in the movie Collateral:



Max: You killed him?
Vincent: No, I shot him. Bullets and the fall killed him.

By that same logic, the above Vincent didn't kill anybody. The bullets did. Never mind that he was the one to pull the trigger. Often three times, twice to the chest, once to the head. Mozambique technique. Guaranteed to kill.

Do you see now why I believe that saying covid didn't kill the people with preexisting conditions?

Recovered patients, even healthy ones, also often have lasting damage from this virus, like partial to permanent loss of the sense of smell/taste, respiratory complications (like developing asthma, reduced lung capacity, etc), and others.

Particularly applies to you and me, Leo. We both have issues with our lungs. God forbid we catch that thing. I've seen photographs of lungs post-covid. Some reading. Some more reading plus GRAPHIC IMAGERY (viewer discretion is advised).

Therefore, trying to deny and even fight any of this or any other similar fact is just royally idiotic and downright irresponsible

Agreed.

and you have no right to complain about life if this is how you decide to act

Well, I'd disagree. Everyone can complain and make wrong decisions. They have the full right to. What they don't have the right to is immunity from consequences of their words and actions. Do as you like. Just be ready for blowback.

if you only believe in the wrong things and do the wrong actions, then you will only get bad results.

And if you repeat bad things and bad actions, expecting the same result... Well... Never expected a video game to hit the nail on the head so hard in a serious discussion like this.

What happens in each country and how this is managed is a complete separate issue, and it all goes down to the fact that most countries were either not prepared for this and had no idea how to act, or had already something in place but their leaders decided to remove it before this happened, so they were left as defenseless as the rest (like in US).

The wikipedia link I posted above contains some material on that. I'll repeat: it was known that in case of a pandemic, we're simply not ready.

Wow. A new low. He tells me I deserve to die. Hmm. You can drop dead right here yu worthless piece of scum I officially had enough!

You are basically telling that cyberbullying is right. Die, SCUM!

I hope you will have a very painful death motherfucker. Hate speech allowed people! You are ut of your minds. You are justyfying abuse. GO FUCK YURSELF.

First off, calling somebody out on their bullshit by responding with facts isn't cyberbullying. Making fun of wrong statements also isn't. You post in public, you get public blowback. Now, had you received a plethora of PMs and e-mails, that would be bullying. That would be invading your space. This isn't your space, this is public space.

And wishing someone to die is indeed a new low and you just did it. I didn't see Feralidragon or anybody else wishing you death but you just did exactly that.

Look at Delacroix and his self righteous attitude deciding what's wrong and what not and being too entitled. Go to bloody hell.

Giving facts and meritorical arguments is being entitled?!

Ah, freedom of speech. Finally I can say what the FUCK I want now. And if you disagree your loss motherfucker, your loss.

Wrong. Freedom of speech only applies to people vs. government. It's a right to protect citizens from the state. Privately-run forums have no obligation to provide anybody, you or me, a platform.

enjoy your deadly vaccine people! I'm not going to get into that either. If you are advocating government repression then you better make a strong cause lmao.

Almost forgot about THAT bit. Antivaxxer much? I don't like the anti-vaccine paranoia as of late, "vaccines causing autism" or "vaccines being deadly". That stuff's disproven and the scientist that propagated the former has already been all but destroyed in the academic community. There's a documentary on that, I'll see if I can find it again. I don't need to make a strong cause for vaccinations, it's already been done to death. A number of illnesses resurging and returning after decades of absence due to lack of vaccinations will serve as evidence enough.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

It's literally the first thread on UT99's frontpage. As far as discussing the actual point, I don't even know why anyone would start a debate when your first post contains "this is not a deadly virus" when we're nearing 1.5 million dead worldwide with numbers which are probably way underestimated in most countries.

You cant fix stupid and ignorant unfortunately. The guy cries about cyber bullying then goes ahead and cyber bullies with profane language and death wishes

real class act here wouldn't you agree?

You are basically telling that cyberbullying is right. Die, SCUM!

I hope you will have a very painful death motherfucker. Hate speech allowed people! You are ut of your minds. You are justyfying abuse. GO FUCK YURSELF.

Yes indeed, it is called showing someone a mirror. And just because I use profanity doesn't mean someone didn't say worse without using the actual profanity.

[Delacroix]

as a rule for any pandemic shutdowns are necessary and it is sheer idiocy to reopen before the problem is fixed, which it still very much is not.

Can we get an Amen? Prime Minister Morawiecki was WARNED by multiple epidemiologists that he shouldn't reopen the country for the summer, he DID and now we have a resurgence.

Plus I started to suffocate when being in an office last time for prolonged amount of time with the mask on

Working with the masks on does take some getting used to, and I have asthma so I can relate... but it's necessary. You don't need to wear them tightly to your face, no pun intended but you have to allow some breathing room.

Agreed. Also, from my experience the blue disposables are better than cloth masks, I personally find it easier to breathe in those.

Funny that an asthmatic is bitching about masks and a number of people with lung/respiratory system issues hop in to disprove...

Hopefully you will get a clue on this virus eventually, because you're clearly not there yet.

Frankly, I hope he does get the clue about the virus before the virus gets a clue about him. We have our disagreements (such as the one now) but I value Leo enough to not wish him death.

[RocketJedi]

It's literally the first thread on UT99's frontpage. As far as discussing the actual point, I don't even know why anyone would start a debate when your first post contains "this is not a deadly virus" when we're nearing 1.5 million dead worldwide with numbers which are probably way underestimated in most countries.

You cant fix stupid and ignorant unfortunately. The guy cries about cyber bullying then goes ahead and cyber bullies with profane language and death wishes

real class act here wouldn't you agree?

You are basically telling that cyberbullying is right. Die, SCUM!

I hope you will have a very painful death motherfucker. Hate speech allowed people! You are ut of your minds. You are justyfying abuse. GO FUCK YURSELF.

Yes indeed, it is called showing someone a mirror. And just because I use profanity doesn't mean someone didn't say worse without using the actual profanity.

Showing me a mirror wishing and I quote

I hope you will have a very painful death motherfucker.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Good job. So all you want to do is destroy me in a battle of arguments. Still no response to the links and everything I posted right? Keep pretending it doesn't exist!

And I believe in absolute freedom of speech. To quote you "censorship is wrong", from another thread. Rings a bell?
You can wish someone death by wrapping it in nicer words like wishing them to catch the virus and such indeed and such has happened to me. My "threats" were too generic on the contrary and were caused by the increased pressure and personal attacks! I try to keep a lid on it but oh boy when I see something like that now. That I deserve to be ridiculed and deserve to die by catching the virus etcetera.

[Delacroix]

Nobody wished you to catch the virus. In fact, I specifically wished you NOT TO. If you try to keep a lid on it and this is the result, then I don't think you're trying very hard.