MH-TheFifthVortex

Post by **sektor2111** » Sun May 09, 2021 6:08 pm

Let's see a simple MonsterHunt Scenario:
Making map pathed normally.
AFTER pathing map you can complete SpawnPoints and factories let's say 300 - post pathing. These ARE NOT a must be in Navigation chain for being processed by each FindPlayerStart call and neither in seeking routes. What are benefits of loading more empty points in a slow script ? It's nothing in terms of performance at all, it's just useless.

Whoever need such sort of fix, is doable using some traces and zone checks and THEN adding points if they need to be added (aerial SpawnPoints not ground ones to mess with nearby reachable nodes). It doesn't make any sense to add nodes blindly when you can see in C++ if nodes have a valid area or are just "forget" into void and linking those from void out of ReachSpecs has no benefit - see that not fixed LEVEL VALIDATE for figuring bad PlayerStarts in C++.
You could see what's going on by remapping chain for the sake of remapping, it affects navigation. Is not hard to make a generic tool for users which can be called from another plain mutator. The tool is good to be a separate module-package addressing developers because it needs a special compilation but I doubt to see developers unable to deal with problem by themselves. Why separate ? Because 436 451 don't have such things - and I don't think it's even needed such tool unless it's about some hard-core patching.

@RedFist
When physical distance LE-LC-LE is big and Pawn is obstructed or has a combat deal, has chances to no longer resume such loooong path from a middle area. It is advisable to have a simple network, map normally zoned with areas in a decent size. SpawnPoints can be out of chain higher (preventing obstructions) and they will always work. I don't see where are benefits of more processing than making it more simple. If these would not have pathing data, an old idea of mine for MonsterHunt would be completely excepting them from Navigation Chain instead of adding them - all this "fix" has no purpose, it's useless. But in that time I did not know how to compile such codes.

Either way if a PlayerStart bad placed causing issues for player is linked, you will want to get rid of it. Disconnect chain, delete node or if this has a Path out move it to end direction of path or try to set location around letting engine first to try adjusting location. Else if an evil Empty PlayerStart has been eliminated, you will need to relink the chain without it. Such a toy should be a mutator without to mess anything else in server. Maps are different and some of them are really screwed up, you cannot do a generic fix just like that. These are not stories because I have done such patches and those maps were over-voted because they started to work normally, triggering other human events - but that's another chapter. In this giant map, my last wish would be SpawnPoints without navigation purpose to be added in chain. Why would need to be added ? Because Factory code was changed with a slow linked list instead of a C++ iterator ? Bad move, boys, bad move. You can stop fixing what isn't broken.

Buggie · Post by **Buggie** » Mon May 10, 2021 12:22 am

Beta 19:

- fixed some crashes of UT.
- paths now work.
- Nali bugs fixed.
- Bots at start reach weapons.
- possible add some new bugs.
- in the sky sometimes visible parts of near area. Usually it is mesh - engine bugs.

MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19.zip: (15.79 MiB) Downloaded 21 times

ividyon · Post by **ividyon** » Mon May 10, 2021 3:48 pm

sektor2111 wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 12:03 pm Wooow, now this is a good laugh for 469b - more like a mindless work. [...] Lol performance "improvement"... [...] Can you see now what's happening when Source-Code goes in wrong direction ? I was f@k!ng right... and not only me...
This is not a fix, it's a TroianHorse in Navigation assets.
[...]
I will update my UT next century... These abominations of 469 are not having ANY baboon LOGIC. [...] "business" which nobody with a sane mind and a normal logic has ever asked...

[...]
for destroying these CRAPS added in UT, not codes [...] Yeah, thanks for "fixing" this. [...] It's sad to work against a "patch" supposed to improve not for damaging...

So, from what I'm seeing, you had two options here:

1) note that 469 has a bug with navigation points. Use the big giant brain you allege to have to write a detailed bug report with reproduction scenarios and proposed solutions, and post it in the right channels, since 469 development is ongoing and devs are active and listen to feedback. Make UT99 better by contributing towards its improvement.

2) Throw a tantrum like a gigantic, embarassing manchild, spitting venom every second sentence, calling people baboons and devaluing their hard work by putting every other word like "patch" and "improvement" into quotation marks, because you feel SO much superior and they made you *so* upset.

Can you use your exceeding intellect to justify why you went with option 2), and not 1)?

I am amazed at the relaxed and forgiving nature of this community for allowing you to spout shit like this in every other post you write, for 11 years now.

Post by **sektor2111** » Mon May 10, 2021 5:22 pm

ividyon wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 3:48 pm Use the big giant brain you allege to have to write a detailed bug report with reproduction scenarios and proposed solutions, and post it in the right channels, since 469 development is ongoing and devs are active and listen to feedback. Make UT99 better by contributing towards its improvement.

Already SHOWN by BUGGIE, and I'm not using any update - first contact was pretty relevant - and then I was confused what bug was about since I don't have it in 440 - a NEW ONE, yeah. In 2 years probably community will write another "ServerCrashFix" addressing these developed "features". As for my big small medium brain I don't recall anything about promising that I will update UT or writing things - it's a big responsibility by the way, this is a heavy task and I'm not going to start doing something which I cannot manage. Now have a nice day and go sound siren elsewhere if you did not track all events. I would be curious what did you do for Editor or Game except usual hands clapping, this background noise has nothing with current map, and no, I don't need such sort of update with ZERO documents explaining changes and forcing me and others to split hair figuring what never asked changes have been done. We weren't talking about me, we were talking about BAD ideas implemented and NOT DOCUMENTED affecting current map - over-charged I have to admit.

These decisions for modifications should be Posted for being READ and not secrets crashing games. First new patch has took down a server which could not be started damaging all my work. Why ? Because it "needs" to be updated and different. Definitely you don't have any clue what is about because probably you have never lost your work and time for dealing with management to fallback server where is was. And that thing was costing money for being alive, not your money of course and Not Your Work. So get some sleep before pointing extra "ideas".

If you don't like my posts DON'T bother to read them save you time.

ividyon · Post by **ividyon** » Mon May 10, 2021 5:32 pm

sektor2111 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:22 pm
ividyon wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 3:48 pm Use the big giant brain you allege to have to write a detailed bug report with reproduction scenarios and proposed solutions, and post it in the right channels, since 469 development is ongoing and devs are active and listen to feedback. Make UT99 better by contributing towards its improvement.
Already SHOWN by BUGGIE, and I'm not using any update - first contact was pretty relevant - and then I was confused what bug was about since I don't have it in 440 - a NEW ONE, yeah. In 2 years probably community will write another "ServerCrashFix" addressing these developed "features". As for my big small medium brain I don't recall anything about promising that I will update UT or writing things - it's a big responsibility by the way, this is a heavy task and I'm not going to start doing something which I cannot manage. Now have a nice day and go sound siren elsewhere if you did not track all events. I would be curious what did you do for Editor or Game except usual hands clapping, this background noise has nothing with current map, and no, I don't need such sort of update with ZERO documents explaining changes and forcing me and others to split hair figuring what never asked changes have been done. We weren't talking about me, we were talking about BAD ideas implemented and NOT DOCUMENTED affecting current map - over-charged I have to admit.

It is not necessary for somebody to prove their achievements or contributions to call someone out on acting like a colossal dickwad, and having a public spaz-out about a bug they dislike in 469, instead of communicating the issue like a normal person. Sorry, dude. Doesn't work that way.

And the other way around, your technical contributions mean jack shit when it comes to how you talk to people, and they are not - and never will be - an excuse for your disgusting manner of speaking of others and others' work just because you happen to have some small problem with it.

If you didn't want this issue to be brought into this thread, and derail it, you shouldn't have written all that dumb shit in the first place. Somebody clearly needs to call you out, since every single time I come to browse these forums, I will read some passive-aggressive nonsense from you in one of your unhinged walls of text. Learn to talk with respect and not embarass and inconvenience people who try to work with you. Everybody who ever tried to benefit from your knowledge and skill, seemingly always has to force themselves through your horrible personality, which you proved yet again by trying to deflect the criticism by asking "what I did for Editor or Game".

Post by **sektor2111** » Mon May 10, 2021 5:36 pm

So if you were reading posts you probably could see what was about patch, X bugs posted by members and sent at GitHub and people deciding to keep old installs. That's maybe very nice and worth pink flowers and bells. Yeah, sure...

I will plan an update when version 469d will be out with "features" removed. If not, I'm fine without it.

In discussion, Buggie said that my paths were having problems - you see, I don't do things over my skill, my work was operational, pointing fingers at me was the wrong target I did not do any move in 469 - and other moves. 469 was doing the damage not me for being pointed. Then he figured problem and posted problem at GitHub.

ividyon · Post by **ividyon** » Mon May 10, 2021 5:41 pm

sektor2111 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:36 pm So if you were reading posts you probably could see what was about patch, X bugs posted by members and sent at GitHub and people deciding to keep old installs. That's maybe very nice and worth pink flowers and bells. Yeah, sure...

Yeah, patches have bugs. I'm on the OldUnreal discord, I help manage the issue reports on the Unreal 227 GitHub, and I have some interaction with the 469 patch as well, helping test the occasional bugfix. I see civil players come into the Discord, and onto the public GitHub issue queue, and write detailed reports, provide log files, and descriptions on how to reproduce bugs. Then, I see these bugs get fixed with time, and new solutions proposed to problems introduced by the patch. None of them have a public hissyfit bitching and whining about everything in completely unrelated threads like you do here.

This is how development works. Bugs are introduced when things are changed, then the bugs are fixed. I pray that you don't have a job in the IT sector where you actually work together with other developers and ever have to critique their code.

The subject of this particular derailing of this thread was never about the patch, and whether or not it's good and bug-free. Noone ever said it's bug-free. All I ever told you was to stop being a dick. Can you do that? Then we can get back on track with the MH map project.

Post by **sektor2111** » Mon May 10, 2021 5:45 pm

Then let's go back at MH map.
Don't worry, instead if working in IT I'd rather prefer to drill three holes and plant trees for this planet, it's more constructive than releasing something which could be tested in the lab not in the garden breaking glasses. I repeat, for reporting a problem of a feature, it needs to be MENTIONED, where was mentioned that navigation will have changes here and there ? Who's dick then ? Me ? C'mon... I do like them but NOT these practices which are more like hacks than features. All changes would be welcomed to be described in advance and making testers to pay attention where it needs.

ividyon wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:41 pm All I ever told you was to stop being a dick. Can you do that?

Yes, I can.

Buggie · Post by **Buggie** » Mon May 10, 2021 9:38 pm

Bad news.

Look like map now unplayable for network after paths fixed.
it can be another reason, But i think it just because of worked paths.
Monsters try start use it, network huge with lead very big CPU load and slowdown server ticks which cause player lag.
So if you want use it - better stay on Beta18, without work paths.
Sad but true.

Currently not see any point continue improve this map. Engine not able handle it with paths.
Without paths Beta18 is fine enough for most cases.
If nali will be fixed in 469c, then not need fix its.

For bots possible add pickup chain like in Beta19.

Because bug with paths can be foxed in v469c, possible need clear all network paths in next Beta.

Post by **sektor2111** » Mon May 10, 2021 9:40 pm

I'm curious now, I'll drop any eye there.

Code: Select all

ScriptLog: Logged 15251 actors... - 3 cameras
XC_Counter: Total ReachSpecs found = 4490

:/
MapGarbage saying - perhaps we have empty specs - MapGarbage stops at first None found.

Code: Select all

MaxNumFound: I found a sum of 49 reachspecs defined in map, from 0 to 48.

Those referenced in NavigationPoints

Code: Select all

NumReachSpecs: This map has 3814 ReachSpecs shown as direct paths in Navigation Network.
NumReachSpecs: After calculation we have 3814 ReachSpecs.
...

Yep...

Code: Select all

...
ReachSpec: 49 : Start = None End = None ColRadius = 0 ColHeight = 0 ReachFlag = 0 Dist = 0 Pruned = 0.
ReachSpec: 50 : Start = None End = None ColRadius = 0 ColHeight = 0 ReachFlag = 0 Dist = 0 Pruned = 0.
...

I don't know how much are working paths, I see bots pretty lazy (440) but... it needs reconstruction. Perhaps hunting some net channels, doing bStatic or bNodelete what is possible... also it might be another way: auto-editing - spawn decorations in run-time from those using replication, only in client without RemoteRole if have only decoration purposes, or such cheap tricks... It's a lot of charge... maybe doing a temporary builder for generating client decorations and spawn location codes.

Buggie · Post by **Buggie** » Mon May 10, 2021 11:42 pm

I test map with 31 bots locally. No any issue.
I play on dedicated test net server with 19 bots - no any issue.
On near same server with 10 real players we get 10% packet loss IDK why.

Also all stuff almost same as Beta18 where 16 players play almost without any problem.

Possible suspects:
1. Paths start work.
2. All parts of level drugged to close area. So possible more actors relevant now.
Or FCollisionHash less effective, because all stuff placed in close distance. I not sure.
But this stuff hardly to debug if locally and with two players it not reproduced.
We can not repeatly update this map on public server and use players as betatesters again and again.

Post by **sektor2111** » Tue May 11, 2021 12:02 am

I believe it needs reduced net usage, perhaps I'm wrong but it feels heavy loaded.

Edit: A Little movie.
After rebuilding paths without empty data I still got some charged Paths-Net, but I see even 440 responding at RememberSpot ShowPath (start area in stage) without XC support or any improved MonsterHunt used, this way demonstrating that previous network was not exactly super optimized - a new clean one makes it to work, and it's still not the best ever paths-network. This is somehow easy part. The heavy part is capturing all actors replicating something, and using networking tweaks as I described. Let's see, a non static deco rotated will send in client new rotation, location, items will send to client rotations, and all replication variables flooding channels.
Hmm...
Edit2:Initial Net usage
Class Inventory.UC auto-state function beginstate

Code: Select all

		BecomePickup();
		bCollideWorld = true;
		if ( bHeldItem )
			SetTimer(30, false);
		else if ( Level.bStartup )
		{
			bAlwaysRelevant = true;
			NetUpdateFrequency = 8;
		}

bAlwaysRelevant. Okay, but how many ? Well...

Code: Select all

ClassActorFinder: For Class Inventory I found and selected 786 actors.

Initial stage looks like eats a lot. Movers will capture some channels to not forget Monsters and whatever decorations. I don't know too much about Unreal networking... but I think I don't need to test map on-line, what I calculated in Editor is giving me a clue what would be via 1024 channels. Stage is completed by extra server things which are different here and there but still participating.
The rest means starting a LAN server using UnrealTurnament.exe file not UCC, opening server console and sending command "sockets" with client connected, then turning off everything and looking at logs.

Let's speed up, this is what is happening through network - all resources were taken confirming my prediction.

Code: Select all

Log: Connections:
Log:    Client 192.168.0.105 192.168.0.105:1119 state: Open
Log:       Channel 0: Text State=open
Log:       Channel 1: Actor=TFemale1 MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.TFemale0 (Role=4 RemoteRole=3) State=open
Log:       Channel 3: Actor=AttachMover MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.AttachMover50 (Role=4 RemoteRole=2) State=open
Log:       Channel 4: Actor=Mover MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.Mover115 (Role=4 RemoteRole=2) State=open
Log:       Channel 5: Actor=Mover MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.Mover114 (Role=4 RemoteRole=2) State=open
Log:       Channel 6: Actor=Mover MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.Mover195 (Role=4 RemoteRole=2) State=open
...//Still Movers and some pawns - Bots entered but not seen yet... because...
Log:       Channel 343: Actor=Mover MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.Mover122 (Role=4 RemoteRole=2) State=open
Log:       Channel 344: Actor=Mover MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.Mover214 (Role=4 RemoteRole=2) State=open
Log:       Channel 345: Actor=NaliRabbit MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.NaliRabbit2 (Role=4 RemoteRole=2) State=open
Log:       Channel 346: Actor=Bird1 MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.Bird44 (Role=4 RemoteRole=2) State=open
Log:       Channel 347: Actor=RazorAmmo MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.RazorAmmo14 (Role=4 RemoteRole=2) State=open
Log:       Channel 348: Actor=RocketCan MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.RocketCan21 (Role=4 RemoteRole=2) State=open
... //Inventories show up to 1022 first channel being taken by main connection...
Log:       Channel 1021: Actor=FlakAmmo MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.FlakAmmo1 (Role=4 RemoteRole=2) State=open
Log:       Channel 1022: Actor=UDamage MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.UDamage5 (Role=4 RemoteRole=2) State=open
ScriptWarning: MonsterHunt MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.MonsterHunt0 (Function BotPack.TeamGamePlus.ReduceDamage:007D) Accessed None
ScriptWarning: MonsterHunt MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.MonsterHunt0 (Function BotPack.TeamGamePlus.ReduceDamage:0095) Accessed None
ScriptWarning: MonsterHunt MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.MonsterHunt0 (Function BotPack.TeamGamePlus.ReduceDamage:007D) Accessed None
ScriptWarning: MonsterHunt MH-TheFifthVortexBeta19_2.MonsterHunt0 (Function BotPack.TeamGamePlus.ReduceDamage:0095) Accessed None
Log: Closing by request
Log: appRequestExit(0)
Exit: Preparing to exit.

That's all net show. Now I was wondering what is here for two or... six players. I don't see channel 1023, I cannot answer why but... it definitely won't help. This is LAN, I doubt about a server from outside having other channels deals, unless some net driver is quickly closing a channel and opening again for another actor and closing it and this will be Network and CPU intensive if it's applied.
Maybe a new net driver for UT capable to do some smart sharing or usage of net channels would be more efficient, original definitely cannot manage this map with so many bAlwaysRelevant actors.

Red_Fist · Post by **Red_Fist** » Tue May 11, 2021 8:49 pm

Higor made me a keypoint and creature factory that don't create paths.

Post by **sektor2111** » Tue May 11, 2021 9:00 pm

Bingo ! At least I've done the same thing in a recent cubed mess, entirely my personal work from byte zero, aka MH map and there navigation changes won't do anything. Using keypoint actors for spawning monsters is not a bad thing at all.

Edit: Next count in stage - Movers - all sort of movers

Code: Select all

ClassActorFinder: For Class Mover I found and selected 343 actors.

Going to a simple math for bAlwaysRelevant actors.
786 Inventory + 343 Mover = 1129 actors trying to get in 1022 channels (or less channels).
From what I see, there isn't too much net compatibility preventing from seeing actors warping or miscellaneous side effects. I can't figure valid options for reducing net usage since there are actors defaulted for being thrown in channels returning more than maximal charge from Engine. I cannot help with anything in this case remaining at idea that over-charging engine is not having good results. Counting other net usage from this point toward also won't help at anything.

Buggie · Post by **Buggie** » Wed May 12, 2021 1:04 am

Beta20:

- fix HOM.
- fix unexpected area connection.
- fix network usage.
- fix Warlord for play with bots.
- additional optimization for prevent crash by overflow points count.

MH-TheFifthVortexBeta20.zip: (15.71 MiB) Downloaded 17 times

Inventory fixed by place next actor:

Code: Select all

class MapFix expands Actor;

function MapFix() {
	local Inventory Inv;
	local int FixedInventoryAlwaysRelevant;

	foreach AllActors(class'Inventory', Inv) {
		if (!Inv.bAlwaysRelevant) continue;
		Inv.bAlwaysRelevant = false;
		FixedInventoryAlwaysRelevant++;
	}
	Log("FixedInventoryAlwaysRelevant:" @ FixedInventoryAlwaysRelevant);
}

auto state Idle {
Begin:
	MapFix();
}

Now there near 500-600 channels.

Checked on local dedic server with 31 bot. 712 channel used at max. Usually near 500-600.
But network sometimes goes up to 21 000 bytes/sec.
I think there nothing can be done.

MH-TheFifthVortex

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