DM-Deck16][ improved paths

[sektor2111]

If you ask what else is doable let's see:
#1 I can redo here all specs in BOT specific format. Other spectators and hands-clappers are going to be surprised to see RED paths working like a charm but NOT for Monsters destroying all RED paths specific myths written by boys in tutorials.
#2 The connected problem: games will monsters will suffer here and then... doing such version it's not advisable as long as monster navigation it's affected.

Explained Unreal's reality: Red Path in plain original Editor means "THIN-PATH" so to speak a path incompatible with a monster. When Bot is not moving there it's because that Red Path it's a single Path - ONE-WAY - a lock-down more exactly depending on spot, and not a needed normal bidirectional path required in that case. All Red Paths "two-way" are Bot Paths all day long and all the time and they can be used even by human hunter if are not passing through special Bot combos.
Evidences are shown at during tests executed with RememberSpot and ShowPath commands.

[Buggie]

Beta6.
Just rebuild paths with apply fix for solve network issues: https://github.com/OldUnreal/UnrealTour ... issues/129

Most changes possible only visually in UnrealEd.
But in general path finding must now work as should.

Code: Select all

Log: Fix reachspecs
Log: Fixed 1288 reachspecs: use pruned - 0, path without upstream - 149, upstream without path - 428, lost path - 711 in 0.000218 seconds
Log: Prune reachspecs
Log: Pruned 1027 reachspecs in 0.001814 seconds
Log: Fix reachspecs
Log: Fixed 0 reachspecs: use pruned - 0, path without upstream - 0, upstream without path - 0, lost path - 0 in 0.000083 seconds

Before/after pictures:

scr_1627731692.png

scr_1627731740.png

scr_1627731861.png

scr_1627731880.png

DM-Deck16][bots6.zip

[sektor2111]

Interesting... let me see what is there BEFORE any rebuild, then... I'll rebuild paths but not before to clean up old data - old data I think it does junk bytes and borked specs not listed correctly.
In this state as first note - It Is Over-Loaded much over 3000 array. Then... I see funky data:

Code: Select all

...
SpecMissing: Pruned Spec with index 374 could not be found inside DefensePoint0 . Trying to attach ReachSpec.
...
SpecMissing: Pruned Spec with index 376 could not be found inside DefensePoint0 . Trying to attach ReachSpec.
...
SpecMissing: Pruned Spec with index 600 could not be found inside LiftExit29 . Trying to attach ReachSpec.
...
SpecMissing: Pruned Spec with index 605 could not be found inside LiftExit29 . Trying to attach ReachSpec.
...

Just my two cents...

Edit: I have the confirmation - you are perfectly right. We have 7074 ReachSpecs and some of them are not placed where they should be. Editor does garbage. Perhaps now you understand me why I wrote my own tool - even in UScript. That thing is not messing up like here, and I don't need any PrunedPath, I can attach considered missing paths later if I want them + full support for Titans and all those "Big Ones" (ECoop, MonsterHunt, etc.)
Edit2: Even if map is more simple, Editor won't attach all ReachSpecs where they need to be. Eh... Polge...

Thank you, Buggie for your research, now I have all reasons for using my custom tool as much as possible (- or using it for fixing that miserable work of Goblin ).

What's my deduction ? If you can see paths In Editor this doesn't means that all are usable in game, TranslocDest shows the method of removing paths when are not needed and... this stage is very similar, undefined Specs in Navigation Network are not used - logic.

Edit3: Certain maps cannot have all Specs FIXED because... are too many for fitting into Lists referencing the same node. I added a complete report of fixes and failures into my checker tool. If 18 ReachSpecs are having the same node as start, all those out of array should be DELETED as they have no usage at all.

Code: Select all

LostData: ________________________________________________________________
LostData: ReachSpecs missing from Paths[0-15] 		= 1110.
LostData: ReachSpecs missing from upStreamPaths[0-15] 	= 852.
FixedWithSuccess: ReachSpecs successfuly attached 	= 1758.
FixFailures: ReachSpecs attaching failures - probably no place = 204.
LostData: ________________________________________________________________
SpecTest: Testing and fixing specs took: 
	0.465065 seconds.
SpecCheckLocator: Checking Specs Localization has been finished.

Even if in 469c these fixes will be implemented, things are not going to work normally, simply this charge is over Paths Lists. If you have 20 ReachSpecs going from a PathNode and Paths List has 16 places, it will be NO ROOM for all ReachSpecs based on such pathing insanity - very logic. Once again, overcharging a map doesn't improve anything. This dev should never generate more than 16 Specs for a PathNode. Previous 592NN Deck map if it's rebuild my tweaks are getting lost but... Editor won't do any error in Paths as they are placed generating around 1170+ ReachSpecs - ALL normal.

Edit4:
However... I did another private demo map with a few paths. Original DevPath did ZERO errors, all was build in original - including paths over a Trap-Mover - there are only 50 ReachSpecs. Hit me with a PM if you want to see it.

Edit5:
Before XC ages and before everything Paths related, my MAP MH-3072-FloorWays_rv1 (even rv2 because paths are the same) does NOT include any Lost ReachSpec, all data is placed normally as the map is following what Polge was saying/recommending/explaining and using only UT Editor 436/440. If a "mapper" does modifications without to know what was about it will cause damage to map as the map doesn't need any editing being checked multiple times.

[Buggie]

Beta7

- diagonal dodge to shield from 5 places.
- fall to shield from 4 places more
- diagonal dodge from shiled to boots
- diagonal dodge from redemer
- diagonal dodge to armor
- lift jumps
- fix few bugs
- improve few parts
- fiz exit from flak acid

DM-Deck16][bots7.zip

[sektor2111]

Certain spots are dumb in games with Translocator... Fixes ? Where ?

Code: Select all

RocketPack0: Route Not Found from PlayerStart1...
RocketPack1: Route Not Found from PlayerStart1...
RocketPack2: Route Not Found from PlayerStart1...
...
etc

Here is fun...
LiftExit38 - Transloc - JumpSpot16.
LiftExit32 - Transloc - JumpSpot2.
In 2023 Deck16][ doesn't have full access everywhere yet ? Still charged for nothing...

Code: Select all

LostData: ________________________________________________________________
LostData: ReachSpecs missing from PrunedPaths[0-15] 	= 329.
FixedWithSuccess: ReachSpecs successfully attached 	= 0.
FixFailures: ReachSpecs attaching failures - probably no place = 329.
LostData: ________________________________________________________________

I won't ask why are needed 4 LiftExit at "Right" Lift + BlockedPath.

[Buggie]

Simple footage of SmartStockBots gameplay on beta7:

[Buggie]

Beta 8

- more different dodges for god of dodge.
- fix some parts.
- improve jump on boxes.
- fix wrong jumps in some parts if carry JumpBoots.

DM-Deck16][bots8.zip

[Gadavre]

I'm really glad someone tried to improve bot navigation on this map. I tested the versions from both developers... No one was able to fix the bug... The bot often tries to jump for ammo, but fails to reach the target


Also, no one could make the bot run to the topmost floor of the level and take a sniper rifle... It would be great even if he was there temporarily, shooting at all the bots that he sees below)

The version from Buggie has one peculiarity... for some unknown reason, the bot ran only on the lower level for me... It could not enter the lift and go up... Also, the bot sometimes fell into acid... In the version from sektor2111, the bot never fell into acid...The test was without enemies

In the version by sektor2111, the bot ran for a strange at the beginning of its run... It glided over the surface as if it were on skis. After that everything was fine. The sliding trajectory of the bot is shown on the screenshot


My verdict: The versions of this map are much better than the original map, but they are not ideal for play with bots...maybe. something else could be improved...

Thank you both for this work!

[Buggie]

1. Jump for rocket pack never be bots goal.
2. Bots can reach sniper rifle on top, if want, but not want to. They not need such place for camp, and they better aim on close distances.

[sektor2111]

Only some notes, a sort of heads up...
Each year something new is brought in game (even if some of these things need some touching...). As result, and not only because of news, pathing a map generally is doable in multiple formats. Me one I'm using simplified version with medium-high skilled Bots, Translocator, and... creatures. This stage guided by a custom DeathMatch is pretty intensive. Sniper spot ? When I want to take a break it's not like MBots are leaving me to sleep - no way. When a map has paths, hunters will chase you permanently - including Skaarj. This is why my options are exactly like I did - yeah, depending on stage it might not be the best for everyone, I just shared what I'm using. It can be taken as a lecture - perhaps an Intro about custom Paths, several experienced mappers can figure differences between plain build and such version. Deck16 can be pathed in a lot of ways - ideal case would be to work with any difficulty settings and any skill. The only problem is how to pick a correct name for users in order to give them some clue about paths-net format.
My rules are clear:
- no junk data left;
- combos usable;
- all items accessible - Box Placement under discussions;
- some tweaks for preventing "fixing" Teleporters, and messing up paths;
- using combos only where are needed - ExtraCost doesn't help everywhere, item can be forget.
Armor2 is one of those without much interest when a "jump" is required - this is what I figured in majority of cases. In plain field is taken often than from higher spots. For this reason I prefer a direct connection using a "fall" instead of a "jump". Normal paths are "easy" and shorter than Combos inside Engine deals.
Combo has by default 1000 UU lenght in pathing data ignoring real distance + ExtraCost - it's not like this way is helping everywhere.

1. Jump for rocket pack never be bots goal.

I would not count on that... You might need to look at Bot code...

Code: Select all

		// find a roamtarget
		if ( RoamTarget == None )
		{
			i = 0;
			for ( N=Level.NavigationPointList; N!=None; N=N.NextNavigationPoint )
				if ( N.IsA('InventorySpot') )
				{
					i++;
					if ( (RoamTarget == None) || (Rand(i) == 0) )
						RoamTarget = N;
				}
		}

It's why I do paths everywhere at any cost.
@Gadavre
If you point me exactly how do you want to see them (drawing, etc) I'll do paths exactly how you want them. Yes, I have what is needed for adding paths manually point by point, it's easy and map is not very big for such as task, building geometry takes more time than adding nodes and connecting them.

[Gadavre]

I want to understand what needs to be done so that the bot can go into the teleport and take the redeemer. could you write in simple language..? I want to learn


I put the pathnode next to the teleport icon, but the bot does not enter

[OjitroC]

Depends which version of Deck you are running possibly. In DM-Deck16][bots8.unr, there is a path to the teleporter from the two nearest pathnodes. PathsChecker reports that the Redeemer can be reached from all the PlayerStarts. So any failure to use that teleporter is probably not down to the lack of connections/paths.

[Buggie]

I want to understand what needs to be done so that the bot can go into the teleport and take the redeemer. could you write in simple language..? I want to learn


I put the pathnode next to the teleport icon, but the bot does not enter

All simple - on stock map teleporter placed outside game area. In void. In the wall.
So you need just move it into game area.

Players can enter because they touch teleprter by radius. Bots can do same, but since there no actual path to it (path connect center of node, center in wall - no connection), then bots no any intention goes here, and they can teleport here only if be pushed into it.

Bots not dumbly run on level. They travel to some goals. if no reason appear in some place, then they never appear here.

[Gadavre]

Bots not dumbly run on level. They travel to some goals. if no reason appear in some place, then they never appear here.

Thank... I did it and I succeeded... how can I make a bot jump on a box with a bulletproof vest?

[Buggie]

Need place PathNode near, up it from ground on 27-32uu on Z. After that you must see yellow line which goes to invisible inventory spot above armor.
For make exact movement, you need place PathNode, open properties, goes to Movement - Location - Z and edit values here. You can just append at begin, before exists value
=29+
And switch to another field. This formula add 29 to value which be here before.

For make jump from top, just place PathNode near edge from which visible armor. If angle and height enough good, it produce path down.