BSP hole, map review request.

[jmartin]

I started out with the Existing map of Jeff Martin. With the "waterway that is going around"

Hey, I think I know that guy. Good at tennis, terrible mapper

Seriously though, I would simply build a new map from scratch since that whole map is basically a semi circle (canal) surrounded by a bunch of hollow cubes (buildings) with the doors and windows punched out so players can enter the buildings.

The most complex part, aside from the trolley, is the bridge which is basically 3 hollow cylinders placed together, cut off the bottom, intersect it and stretch it out to the desired size.

You could pretty much rebuild the whole thing in about 30 minutes.

That was my second or third map I made back in 2001.

The idea was to make a red light district and see if it was possible to have female bots (hot babes) in the windows.

IIRC everything worked except the bots would be invisible in online games only. Something about bots standing behind a transparent brush in Unreal-1 online mode.

[Red_Fist]

"except the bots would be invisible"

Yes, we had the same problem with that sniper skillz test map, so I resorted to a bunch of small diameter block-alls.
(Other players can watch the contestant play from room to room through windows, but you couldn't see the player.)

I think, use movers 1/2 unit away from the sides not touching the BSP, and then make them translucent or whatever. I do that a lot it seems for see--through doors or glass and didn't know about that back then. I think movers would work, then have breaking glass store fronts, LoL, or place monster in the windows and have them smash out,

[Baardman]

I started out with the Existing map of Jeff Martin. With the "waterway that is going around"

Hey, I think I know that guy. Good at tennis, terrible mapper



The idea was to make a red light district and see if it was possible to have female bots (hot babes) in the windows.

IIRC everything worked except the bots would be invisible in online games only. Something about bots standing behind a transparent brush in Unreal-1 online mode.

Nice to see the original author, i somehow just assumed the original artist would not be around because its an "old game".
You seemed to have the same idea of adding Providers of certain Services of the female gender behind the windows

I do not exactly understand what your problem is/was and why it did not work out though. I add a skaarjinfantry to my map and changed the mesh to Femalecommando and it displays correct.
I know there is some setting that prevent people from seeing monsters in online DM map for instance, not sure if that is related as you also talking about " not visible behind windows".
Would that mean that my "Skaarjinfantry" would also not be visible online for other people?
that would screw up my goal big time.

I got it at this point now that i have set up control points and the bot walks to a controlpoint where it is doing this custom dance from user dd.power Eldorado animations, it has a twerk animation for instance. Example of dances;

[Barbie]

I add a skaarjinfantry to my map and changed the mesh to Femalecommando and it displays correct.

Please also have a look into the UnrealTorunament.log. Such mesh changes often cause a lot of Access Nones because if mismatching mesh animation names.

Would that mean that my "Skaarjinfantry" would also not be visible online for other people?

Yes, because in online game not all actors are relevant for a player - there are only 1024 channels to update client's game actors. The easiest solution would be setting "bAlwaysRelevant" to true for this ScriptedPawn. Or use a mover instead of a (semi)solid brush for the window.

[Baardman]

I add a skaarjinfantry to my map and changed the mesh to Femalecommando and it displays correct.

Please also have a look into the UnrealTorunament.log. Such mesh changes often cause a lot of Access Nones because if mismatching mesh animation names.

Would that mean that my "Skaarjinfantry" would also not be visible online for other people?

Yes, because in online game not all actors are relevant for a player - there are only 1024 channels to update client's game actors. The easiest solution would be setting "bAlwaysRelevant" to true for this ScriptedPawn. Or use a mover instead of a (semi)solid brush for the window.

Okay if that is something i can change in properties it will be visible then i guess, but the window part i don't understand, why would any type of actor not be visible behind a window with transparent texture? And why would a mover with that same texture solve that? I'm trying to understand this, i'm not that far yet in setting this up in my level but i'm curious because i actually do want a glass-like window preferable.

[Barbie]

why would any type of actor not be visible behind a window with transparent texture? And why would a mover with that same texture solve that?

Ask the developers...

My guess: the engine decides the relevance of an Actor with a Trace() function, but this function ignores movers (at least in online games).

If you play online you'll notice that ScriptedPawns see and try to attack you even if a door (mover) is closed. Also explosions waves passes movers and make damage behind them.

[Baardman]

I started out with the Existing map of Jeff Martin. With the "waterway that is going around"

IIRC everything worked except the bots would be invisible in online games only. Something about bots standing behind a transparent brush in Unreal-1 online mode.

why would any type of actor not be visible behind a window with transparent texture? And why would a mover with that same texture solve that?

Ask the developers...

My guess: the engine decides the relevance of an Actor with a Trace() function, but this function ignores movers (at least in online games).

If you play online you'll notice that ScriptedPawns see and try to attack you even if a door (mover) is closed. Also explosions waves passes movers and make damage behind them.

I think im still not 100% sure what you guys mean with not visible behind window. I tested it out and it seemed to be visible (Skaarjinfantry walking behind transparent masked texture window is visible here.). Or do you mean to say it will not be visible online suddenly even after setting bAlwaysRelevant to true?

[Barbie]

I think im still not 100% sure what you guys mean with not visible behind window. I tested it out and it seemed to be visible

That happens only in online play.

[Baardman]

I think im still not 100% sure what you guys mean with not visible behind window. I tested it out and it seemed to be visible

That happens only in online play.

Okay thats very odd, i can still see them behind translucent surface if i start the map on a server, but maybe thats because i start the server myself and join?....... am i hallucinating?

[Barbie]

Finish your map and then we'll see what happen...

[Red_Fist]

The brush is like empty BSP to see through as opposed to a sheet. But a sheet don't block stuff.

Use movers. just don't have them touch the BSP, I make the edges 2 sided and use menublack for the texture and the front and back translucent with a different texture for the window.

And if you are really desperate to make them look good lighting,
Make the mover start out in a separate box as keyframe 1, when the map starts it will be lit like in the box and set the mover lighting to key 1. Then it snaps back to key zero and stays there. Or make a double box to control the window mover lighting for each side.

IF you feel so inclined..........

[Baardman]

I finally got my Bridge without BSP holes, it took me multiple days trying different methods, aligning all vertices seemed to fix it eventually.
I honestly cant comprehend how people make complex maps if only this 1 peace of geometry takes me multiple days trying.

amsterdam2.png

[Red_Fist]

The best way is to not intersect the individual brushes. Once you have the pieces all together then surround the pieces and then intersect it all into one brush.
It will have much less vertices but yet be a solid one brush.
BUT you are working on a curvy thing for a BSP.

Seems like that bridge should be 4 or 6 brushes, the top, and 3 holes then top end ramps each side. no railings.

EDIT ADD

The first thing I did was send that subtract ,,to last,,, and the BSP hole went away.

I was making-remaking that bridge, the original BSP problem is that the lower brush is curved in two directions. So I got the good tunnels intersected and perfect, it is when adding the trim, and not that add brush that I took out. so, along with the angle of the end of the tunnel. AND the curves things just can't fit. I was using a duplicate of the tunnel to intersect the trim, so that might be screwing it up instead of making a new brush

So in other words the tunnel entrances should be carved into a flat surface, OR make a new bottom brush and do the curves less stretched out or made of several brushes.

I think I would add a flat brush across where the tunnels will be, or some trapezoid shape.
Because editing vertexes on a brush like that affects the whole brush and get new BSP holes. And is why people make new things, new brushes for faster mapping. The only time those curves can line up is if they are not curves anymore.

I will send a map version of just the area with the bridge, and I am not a good brushwork person at all,and no trim lolzz

I have one more thing to try for the trim. And I know you already fixed it.

[jmartin]

I honestly cant comprehend how people make complex maps if only this 1 piece of geometry takes me multiple days trying.

It becomes an addiction.

You're right. Most people don't realize how much time, effort and work-ethic goes into making a map.

Most guys give up after only a few HOURS, then they end up doing “modifications”, rip offs, junk like that.

Another reason why there are so many botched compromised maps out there, and so few originals.

At least you are willing to spend more than a few days learning the craft.